Edgar Wright Leaves Ant-Man!! - Part 2

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]479843[/split]

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He's a good PR Man that Feige fellow.

Its not like he hasnt lied before. I just hope this movie still turns out to be pretty good.

 

[kosh33]

^
what did he lie about? was it his statement that all the fox-men movies were good?

 

[kosh33]

i am starting to really hate Wright now.. if it wasnt for him sitting on this movie for ever, we could have got Antman earlier as a founding member for the avengers, or playing a part in Ultron's creation or maybe Whedon could have used Wasp in the avengers..
i am starting to think that reference to Hank Pym as Selvig's friend in Thor1 was deleted just so he could be introduced by name and in person in his own movie.,,

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^
what did he lie about? was it his statement that all the fox-men movies were good?

Just general stuff, like "we will be exploring the 9 realms in Thor 2" and other general statements he has made about the movies.

As someone said he is a very good PR guy, well, sometimes PR guys lie. He certainly isnt the only one who does it.

 

[DA_Champion]

i am starting to really hate Wright now.. if it wasnt for him sitting on this movie for ever, we could have got Antman earlier as a founding member for the avengers, or playing a part in Ultron's creation or maybe Whedon could have used Wasp in the avengers..
i am starting to think that reference to Hank Pym as Selvig's friend in Thor1 was deleted just so he could be introduced by name and in person in his own movie.,,

It doesn't matter. If Wasp had been in the avengers then that means somebody else would not have been, probably black widow.

 

[TheVision]

One more thing: Marvel gave us all these great films since 2008 but its THEIR fault about Wright leaving? NO FN WAY. No. Not at all.

 

[DA_Champion]

One more thing: Marvel gave us all these great films since 2008 but its THEIR fault about Wright leaving? NO FN WAY. No. Not at all.

They've given us a mixed bag of films, and several people other than Wright have left Marvel or been booted.

Marvel is not God. Never think of a corporation as your God.

 

[TheVision]

"A mixed bag of films" - Just the fact youd say that shows how much in denial you are

Never said MARVEL is god. But they do get to dictate whats right/wrong for their film universe.

 

[Mysteryman]

"A mixed bag of films" - Just the fact youd say that shows how much in denial you are

Never said MARVEL is god. But they do get to dictate whats right/wrong for their film universe.

Whats wrong with saying they have delivered a mixed bag of films ?
Its not the same as saying all of their films stink.
Their is not a studio in existence that has a perfect track record when it comes to making quality films .

 

[Rock Sexton]

Just general stuff, like "we will be exploring the 9 realms in Thor 2" and other general statements he has made about the movies.

As someone said he is a very good PR guy, well, sometimes PR guys lie. He certainly isnt the only one who does it.

......... and SOMETIMES they don't. Feige isn't going to go on record like that and lie his ass off knowing Wright could easily contradict everything he's saying.

His comments are the same thing everyone else said up until this point. Wright and Marvel/Feige do not mesh well in a collaborative environment. That's how things work at the MCU and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's their method. They're not a studio that hands over its franchises to auteurs and just lets'em have free reign.

They didn't know they'd be having issues up until things got closer into production. Before it was always Wright off somewhere else dabbling with the script, while also balancing his other projects. It's almost like having been in a long distance relationship and then finally moving in together. Sometimes that becomes a make or break for the relationship.

 

[Rock Sexton]

^
what did he lie about? was it his statement that all the fox-men movies were good?

It's just a convenient response sans any kind've of tangible proof.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

......... and SOMETIMES they don't. Feige isn't going to go on record like that and lie his ass off knowing Wright could easily contradict everything he's saying.

His comments are the same thing everyone else said up until this point. Wright and Marvel/Feige do not mesh well in a collaborative environment. That's how things work at the MCU and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's their method. They're not a studio that hands over its franchises to auteurs and just lets'em have free reign.

They didn't know they'd be having issues up until things got closer into production. Before it was always Wright off somewhere else dabbling with the script, while also balancing his other projects. It's almost like having been in a long distance relationship and then finally moving in together. Sometimes that becomes a make or break for the relationship.

Wright and Fiege agreed before their split what they were going to say, i'll say this again, people in Hollywood lie, do you really think they would tell us if they were at each others throats all the time? How many times have we heard directors and studio heads saying the production was fine only later to find out it was the total opposite of that?

This is standard Hollywood break-up fluff to me. If you want to believe what they are saying thats fine, because of Feige's previous track record, I dont, simple as that. Neither of us can prove the other wrong.

 

[TheVision]

Meanwhile James Gunn was complimented by Feige about his work and he got to make a great film that has his signature style all over it, so go figure.

Im on Team Marvel on this one. If I really believed they were at fault Id be on EWs side. I just dont.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Wright and Fiege agreed before their split what they were going to say, i'll say this again, people in Hollywood lie, do you really think they would tell us if they were at each others throats all the time? How many times have we heard directors and studio heads saying the production was fine only later to find out it was the total opposite of that?

You're using ambiguous examples of other times in Hollywood as if it's mutually exclusive to what went on here.

Even if they were at each other's throats that's precisely what was meant by them not being compatible in a collaborative environment. You're just proving my point.

This is standard Hollywood break-up fluff to me. If you want to believe what they are saying thats fine, because of Feige's previous track record, I dont, simple as that. Neither of us can prove the other wrong.

You speak as if it's improbable that a studio which requires collaboration would run into problems with a director who is normally a hands off "auteur".

What is there not to believe in lieu of that? Every single person who's commented on the situation (Favreau/Gunn/Pegg/Feige/Whedon) have all said there was a compatibility issue. At this point it's not about you or I not knowing anything. Everything else is tabloid-worthy nonsense.

 

[BatsDC]

More from Feige:

I don’t know if we ever thought of ourselves as invincible, quite the opposite. If you start thinking you’re invincible you start making bad decisions. We think we’re very vincible, and worry all the time! No, it’s much more personal than that.

We’ve been with Edgar for eight years, we saw the premiere of a number of his films in this very theatre. The biggest disappointment to me is not that he will not be making the movie. It was determined by him and by us that that would not be the best thing for the movie. The disappointing thing for me is not being able to make a movie with him, right now; it’s just the personal relationship. And it was amicable and we sat in a room together and said this isn’t working. I just wish I or he had figured that out somewhere in the eight years leading up to it.

But we said, OK, let’s put out a statement and let people know it’s not screaming and fighting and dramatic. It just came to came down to creative differences. And I said, ‘Well, nobody’s ever gonna believe that because that’s what everybody always says.’ And Edgar said ‘But that is what it is.’ He was nervous about what the perception would be, and I said to Edgar ‘Don’t worry about it, because the perception will be that the evil studio squashes the innocent filmmaker’. That will be the perception no matter what, and that is the perception, but it’s much more complicated than that.

Again to me, it’s reading in the early days of online fandom with Ain’t It Cool News back in 1999 that Bryan Singer was a terrible choice for X-Men and Hugh Jackman is way too tall to be Wolverine. We’re very thick-skinned and we’re use to the second-guessing and the colour commentary during the process. We’ve done what we’ve always done, which is block it out and make the best movie possible because it always comes down to the end product, when the lights go down on opening night and the clean slate appears and what is the experience of the movie. And clearly we believe that we’re on the road now with Peyton Reed to the best version of ‘Ant-Man’ that could have existed.

Our schedule is not that dissimilar right now from Iron Man 3 and the original Avengers. And Ant-Man is not that visually complicated as either of those two films.

It was not actually ‘60s-set. He had done a film called Down With Love which was really good, which was ‘60s set and I think that’s where some of the confusion came in, but it was, I believe, going to be very very cool. We had a year or more on that version and we weren’t Marvel studios then, and I was just one of many people involved in that first version. And over the years we had stayed in touch with him and frankly had come very close on many movies with him to working with him again. When Edgar left this project, we talked about a number of different filmmakers and had few a few meetings with a few filmmakers and ending up reaching out to Peyton knowing that Peyton is not a slam dunk. He’s not just, ‘Oh, a movie, I’ll take it’. He had to be convinced that the big bad studio hadn’t squashed the filmmaker, that we were doing what was right for the movie. He read all the previous drafts and everything that had been created and is elevating it, and really having a clear vision of his own to bring this to life. The cast is incredibly engaged and we’re starting on August 18.

Well, it’s not worth, right now, going into that in super-specifics. I wish it wasn’t as late in the day as it was, but it just had become clear that there was an impasse that we had never reached before. We’ve worked with lots of unbelievable talented filmmakers like Edgar before, and of course there are disagreements along the way. There’s always been disagreements, whether big or small; that’s the collaborative nature of filmmaking and in particular the collaborative nature at Marvel that has producers, not just me, that are very involved and very opinionated. We had always found a way around it, a way to battle through it and emerge on the other side with a better product. At no point do we hire filmmakers who do everything we say, and at no point do we hire filmmakers that we let just do anything they want. There is always a middle ground that we find, and it just became clear that both of us was just being too polite over the past eight years I guess! Then it was clear that, ‘Oh you’re really not gonna stop talking about that note?’ ‘Oh, you’re really not gonna do that note?’ Alright this isn’t working.

 

[Quasimod0]

Feige is giving me hope. I've got a lot of respect for the guy.

 

[BatsDC]

^^ Yeah, me too.

He always seems to be able to calm any problems fans have, he's a real good guy to have from a PR point of view.

 

[TheVision]

Middle ground was not reached. Do you think MARVEL didnt give in at all or that Edgar wanted more and more control? I go with choice B in this instance.

As Ive said since this debate began, its MARVEL'S ANT MAN, Not EDGAR WRIGHT'S ANT MAN.

 

[BatsDC]

Middle ground was not reached. Do you think MARVEL didnt give in or that Edgar wanted more control? I go with choice B in this instance.

I think it's a case of Marvel realising that the longer they waited, the more Edgar's film started conflicting with the MCU as a whole. And at the same time, Edgar wanted to make his film his way, not wanting to potentially remove parts of his script in order to cater to the 'restrictions' of the MCU. I'd imagine it's really that simple, even if other elements were involved.

Edgar wanted to make the same film he envisioned eight years ago, which for Marvel simply wasn't possible.

 

[TheVision]

Edgar shouldve given in a little to the current state of the MCU since that was pretty much inevitable anyway. How can you just dismiss 6 years of interconnected movies? It would be different if this was the 1st MCU film. Either way it was his loss, not Marvels.

 

[T"Challa]

The funny thing is people act like this stuff doesn't happen all the time. There are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake here. Sometimes, things just don't work out and sides don't agree. There's no need to villify anyone.

The MCU, regardless of what you think about some of the films has been a resounding success, both critically and financially. The general audience has really taken to the universe, and for the most part, people really like the product they put out. Based on his body of work, Feige has more than earned the benefit of the doubt IMO. Edgar Wright is super talented and he will be fine, but if his visions and ideas do not fit into the MCU sandbox, then he has to go if doesnt' budge. Its that simple, its just business.

And i find it funny, people forget Fox fired Rupert Wyatt from Dawn of the Planet of the Apes for the exact same creative reasons, and replaces him with Reeves. I dint see anyone complaining then and i definitely don't see them complaining now. lets wait and see how this thing turns out. This stuff happens in hollywood a lot. Feige and Marvel aren't idiots.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

"A mixed bag of films" - Just the fact youd say that shows how much in denial you are

Never said MARVEL is god. But they do get to dictate whats right/wrong for their film universe.

It HAS been a mixed bag for most people. Some of what they've done has worked, and some of it hasn't. That has nothing to do with being in denial. That's just people's opinions, and they're completely entitled to them. Not to mention, I think you'll find that is actually how more people feel than don't, especially when the sequels are concerned.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

The funny thing is people act like this stuff doesn't happen all the time. There are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake here. Sometimes, things just don't work out and sides don't agree. There's no need to villify anyone.

The MCU, regardless of what you think about some of the films has been a resounding success, both critically and financially. The general audience has really taken to the universe, and for the most part, people really like the product they put out. Based on his body of work, Feige has more than earned the benefit of the doubt IMO. Edgar Wright is super talented and he will be fine, but if his visions and ideas do not fit into the MCU sandbox, then he has to go if doesnt' budge. Its that simple, its just business.

And i find it funny, people forget Fox fired Rupert Wyatt from Dawn of the Planet of the Apes for the exact same creative reasons, and replaces him with Reeves. I dint see anyone complaining then and i definitely don't see them complaining now. lets wait and see how this thing turns out. This stuff happens in hollywood a lot. Feige and Marvel aren't idiots.

Wright just has a very different style than most directors that I think his fans were obviously excited to see applied to the MCU. I know that's what I was looking forward to, but after what Marvel pulled off with the Russo bros of all people, I think whoever they go with should get the benefit of the doubt.