Elfman vs. Zimmer/Howard

Discussion in 'Batman Begins' started by Catman, Jun 15, 2005.

?

Who did a better job?

  1. Danny Elfman

  2. Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard

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  1. Ruined Angel Registered

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    I prefer Elfman but I was really impressed by the BB score, much more than I thought I'd be. Must buy a copy of that soundtrack when I next get enough money. I normally refuse to buy CDs but I'll support BB.
     
  2. kpjoon Registered

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    I prefer Zimmer and Newton's score over Elfman's.
     
  3. Carter Registered

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    I can't even believe this is close.
    Elfman tops Zimmer in every way.
     
  4. gigamaster Registered

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    Not true, I thought that the two main players - Batman and Ra's - had great "musical voices". I loved that two-note motif for Batman, where the trumpet rises and swells up, then abruptly drops. It's simple, and announces the Dark Knight perfectly. Also, you have the bittersweet Bruce theme, and the heroic, and regal Batman theme heard at the beginning of Molossus and varied throughout the entire soundtrack. For Ra's we had that twangy, atmospheric, Middle-eastern theme that fit the mystery and background of the character perfectly.

    Overall, I thought the soundtrack was superb. It fit the movie and the characters perfectly, what else can you ask for? I thought the action cues really captured the daring and heroic qualities of Batman, especially track 8 where he takes down the ninjas. Great stuff there. And the music altogether gave the movie a great atmosphere, and got me pumped where needed.

    Zimmer and Newton did a fantastic job.
     
  5. Sparda_Pain Registered

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    I like Zimmer-Howard score better dan Elfmans
     
  6. Stupidnewb Registered

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    I'm just disappointed that they didn't include the Arkham descent music and the music that was played while Batman was being pulled by the train.
     
  7. DarkKnightJRK Registered

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    First, I must adress something that has bothered me about the Zimmer/Howard arguement:

    THERE IS A THEME.

    It's the first 40 seconds of Vespertilio. It's the music that is played through credits sequence and is reapeated several times throughout the picture. What's that called, boys and girls?

    Anyway, I think the true ULTIMATE Batman theme would be an amalgamation of both: Both the operatic and heroic Elfman theme and the moody and animalistic Zimmer/Howard themes.
     
  8. Stupidnewb Registered

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    Yeah, there are many themes. So far I can only pinpoint two of them but I remember a lot of different repeated themes throughout the film.

    There's that two note motif that runs throughout most of the movie, kind of like the two note motif from the Matrix films.

    Then there's the heroic/action/triumphant theme that is heard in 3:15-3:26 in track 3 Myotis and 0:40-1:00 of track 10 Molossus. It might be in another track too or in the film and not released as a track.
     
  9. Phaser Intellectual

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    Actually, there are about 4 different oft repeated themes in Batman Begins.
     
  10. Phaser Intellectual

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    What are you smoking? Of course the characters each have a theme.

    Bruce Wayne has a theme, one that you hear at the very beginning (and also throughout) the film which gradually evolves into one of the three prominent Batman themes.

    Thomas Wayne had a theme which plays whenever Bruce looked at the stethoscope of his father.

    The Scarecrow has a theme. Listen to the soundtrack. It's impossible to miss it.

    The troubled romance between Rachel and Bruce also has a theme which suitable varies throughout the film.

    Ra's had a theme as well. You hear it when Ducard first speaks to Bruce in his solitary cell as well as at Bruce's birthday party.

    Oh and, Howard/Zimmer's work on BB far surpasses Elfman's IMO. I've seen the film 7 times in IMAX now, bought the soundtrack and I just couldn't get the music out of my head. It's simply amazing.
     
  11. TheBat812 Registered

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    i disagree. Besides teh theme that Elfman had, there's nothing memorable about his score.
     
  12. SolidRoar Registered

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    Well, they can't be compared really. Each one fits the tone of its respective film. That being said, I really like the recently revealed unused theme by Zimmer/Howard. I think it would work nicely with the sequel's opening.
     
  13. super-t Registered

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    ok i like both scores but when u think of BATMAN when u watch BB the scores doesnt say BATMAN like elfmam's does but i dont like the lil march that elfman uses if u took the begining of elfmans and the BB theme that would be the best but, all in all ill take elfmans.
     
  14. Catman Registered

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    There's nothing memorable about his score? Have you heard Descent Into Mystery, Attack of the Batwing, Up the Cathedral, Waltz to the Death, and Finale?!
     
  15. Catman Registered

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    I take back what I said, but I still do not think they did a good job. As far as creating music to enhance the mood of the film itself I think they did a great job. As far as creating music for the characters I don't think they did a good job. At least Elfman created great themes for the characters and the movie itself. Was it a bit over the top and operatic? Yes, but so what? Ennio Morricone had electric guitars in OUATITW, but it works and it is good.
     
  16. KING ¼ Registered

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    I loved Howards work on Signs and especially Collateral, and Zimmer rules in everything he does, but I was dissapointed with Begins. I thought with these 2 on the job, it should have been much better. From what little I heard, it was good, and epic, like it should be. If you cant outdo Elfman, dont try, do something different. And they did, but it wasnt as good as it could have been. These guys are better than this.
    Elfman all the way, his scores are always great. I love the opening to Batman 89. With BB, there was no opening with credits, and I hate movies now a days that do that, because we dont get the cool build up with the awesome score.:(
     
  17. Phaser Intellectual

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    Well that's where I strongly disagree. In my opinion Howard and Zimmer did a fantastic job with the score. Not only did they create excellent mood music for the film, but tailored multiple themes that fit surprisingly well with the main character(s). Not to mention the music packs an emotional punch not found in Elfman's score.
     
  18. Kipobe Registered

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    There was no need for Elfman's score to have an emotional punch so to speak... where would it have fit in the 1989 Batman? Besides, this music was tailored to an extent... it was rough around the edges and could've used a bit more definition.

    The only reason I skate around the word "theme" is because that's exactly what Zimmer/Howard want. To me, there is definately an overture that could be built into a theme... but it was avoided. Why? I really don't know... that's why I say their indy style sounds forced because it was if they were trying to do something significant without thinking about why they're doing what they are doing.

    I mean, imagine a true score to this instead of long stretched out cues. If cut and tailored properly, this could've really been something. I remember first seeing the most recent trailer and thinking the music was quite impressive. Not that I wanted it to be thunderous for the hell of it, but it should blaze a trail that you can follow of consistancy that you can only get from a score... not 10 abstract cues. Again, it worked for this movie given the way the story was told... but it wouldn't have been my first choice as a director to see how the music would go.

    For the sequel, I again say that Zimmer should be dropped and Howard should be allowed to create an independant score of his own. I think it would be insanely beautiful given the theme(s) that is already structured.

    Again, did it do it's job better than Elfman's 1989 Batman? Not a chance. Elfman's 1989 Batman set a standard that was not easily gonna be topped... but I don't compare the music to each other, I compare them to what they did for the film. Elfman's Batman score not only complimented the film perfectly, but it added the bombastic feel to what we now know as Batman of the 90's. Elliot Goldenthal's music was a cheap rip-off of the same bombastic feel as Shoemaker's movies was a cheap rip-off of the same Burton-style Batman, so they don't count.

    As a personal note, I'd like to add if I were doing the score I'd use alot less strings... ALOT less. Personal taste though... I don't picture strings in harmony with Batman; the character.
     
  19. Kipobe Registered

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    You are kidding me, right?! Maybe you're confusing Batman with Superman? Even then, that had two themes.

    Hell, Batman '89 was possibly the most diverse use of the main theme until Elfman's work with Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2.

    Have you even heard the score? There's tons of tracks on there that feature memorable moments... probably none more than the closing track "Finale" which is probably still the most memorable closing moments in a movie (especially musically) of all time. You can't be serious.
     
  20. J.R. A Truly Remarkable Man

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    I felt the same way. There was no realy distinct theme for ANYTHING in the film. That's why I went with Elfman.
     
  21. Kipobe Registered

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    But apparently that's what they were going for. They were going for an entire film of mood music. To me, it came of partially as a good idea, partially as stupid. I think a true score wouldve worked better.

    Besides, it's hard to top what Elfman brought to Batman.
     
  22. Kipobe Registered

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    Alighty, so I'm listening to the score again with an objective mind, and all the score puts me in mind of is a sophisticated version of Daredevil (in terms of style, not sound or music).

    If you own the Daredevil score and you own the Batman Begins score and you can study them and break them down, tell me how I'm wrong, because it's unbelievable the characteristics they share.
     
  23. Catman Registered

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    Have you seen Batman Returns by any chance?
     
  24. comicgirl Goddess in Residence

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    Elfman is the ultimate...these other guys aren't fit to hold his baton
     
  25. Superman4ever Registered

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    That's basically how I feel...Elfman was good for Burton’s movie, but Zimmer and Howard were perfect for this movie!

    However, seeing that I LOVE Begins to death, I choose the latter!
     

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