Episode 01/04 "Who Are You?"

Discussion in 'Batwoman' started by Dr., Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Dr. From parts unknown

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    A new villain with an eye for all things that sparkle drops in on the city. Kate (Ruby Rose) attempts to find a balance between her personal life and her new role as Gotham’s guardian. Catherine (Elizabeth Anweis) has an uncomfortable encounter with Alice (Rachel Skarsten) who always seems to be one step ahead of the Kane family. Batwoman pays fangirl Mary (Nicole Kang) a visit to ask for a favor. Meanwhile, Jacob (Dougray Scott) and Sophie (Meagan Tandy) try to piece together who was after their prisoner. Luke (Camrus Johnson) continues to finetune Batwoman’s arsenal of weapons as the pair track their unwelcome visitor and discover she has more sinister plans than snatching shiny objects. Holly Dale directed the episode written by Nancy Kiu and Denise Harkavy.

     
  2. NotNickFury Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    7,547
    Likes Received:
    1,777
    Huh. Didn't expect to see another take on Magpie after we got her on Gotham. Kate should've just asked Selina Kyle and Oswald Cobblepot for assistance. They had no problem taking care of Magpie over on their Gotham City.
     
  3. vantheman77 Superman Fan 4 Life

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,168
    Likes Received:
    639
    In many ways this felt like a true beginning than the last three episodes that are more like a feature length-pilot.
     
    Lencho01 and Holy Slapper like this.
  4. Frodo Registered

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    887
    I actually felt the episode was a bit of a mess, and a step down from the last three episodes. This is the first time Ruby really felt wooden to me, but then again, the episode felt a bit of a hodge podge.

    I actually thought Kate's new GF was a bit interesting, and kinda had that Piper Perabo vibe about her, but they bounced her after two episodes .

    There were some funny bits though. Next week's looks like it could be interesting.
     
    Karelia likes this.
  5. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    23,321
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    It was an ok episode, Magpie was an enjoyable villain for the little screentime that she got. I did laugh at Batwoman covering all the mini explosives with her cape even though no one was around and then making the last pearl fly into the sky and covering the little girl up even though she was in zero danger at that point.

    We've seen many married/divorced parental couples throughout the Arrowverse and Catherine/Jacob have to be the worst ones. The writers have done nothing to make them come across as a couple let alone a couple that is in love so Catherine coming clean and Jacob being pissed at her made me feel nothing.

    Kate is a terrible liar....come up with some better lies girl!
     
  6. vantheman77 Superman Fan 4 Life

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,168
    Likes Received:
    639
    Magpie looked real good. Catherine looks to be the show’s equivalent of Moira Queen.
     
  7. Mani-Man Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,592
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    The Episode in general was kind of messy and Ruby Rose felt more "wooden" than in the previous episodes most of the time...but honestly, i kind of liked it.
    And im getting used to the Cast slowly.

    I think i might stick around for longer than my normal 5 episode rule.
    They slowly start to find their rhythm.
     
  8. Dr. From parts unknown

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    I quite liked this episode.

    As noted, the first three installments sorta functioned as an extended pilot/origin story. In those, Kate uses the “bat” persona as an expedient to solve certain immediate problems. But she doesn’t seem to envision super-heroism as a personal mission. It’s only at the very end of ep.3 that Batwoman adopts the traditional costume (whereafter she’s no longer mistaken for Batman) and gets her name.

    So with ep. 4, we’re finally into a more typical (“procedural”) format. Of course, the longer-term Alice arc is still percolating; but most of the story concerned a separate crime/villain-of-the-week. In and of itself, said crime/villain was serviceable. But its more tangible effect was on Kate’s personal philosophy. After the fact, she muses that Batwoman’s “triumph” amounted to saving expensive jewelry for a bunch of billionaires. So we get a sense of a social conscience - that “Batwoman” can’t just be about preserving the status quo for the 1%. I guess we’ll see if and how that manifests. But in the meantime, civilian Kate (at least) is walking the walk: investing Kane money into affordable housing. There was also a nice little parallel and conflict to do with being out and open as a gay person and being dishonest and secretive as a costumed vigilante. And this conflict (apparently) cost Kate her relationship with Reagan. Now by my reckoning, this is the way to directly address the “politics” of a gay protagonist without the clumsy speechifying.

    On a more technical note: Though I didn’t take out a stopwatch to verify, it seems to me that Kate/Batwoman got the most screentime - and that other scenes featuring Alice, Mary and Catherine were agreeably brief. IOW, the title character is actually the protagonist. :wow: In contrast, it’s not immediately apparent how the flashforwards in Arrow inform Oliver’s story. And Supergirl is starting to feel more like an ensemble effort (not in a good way) - with Kara hardly getting more attention than the show’s “supporting” characters.
     
  9. Frodo Registered

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    887
    [QUOTE="Primal Slayer, post: 37922669, member: 30269"
    We've seen many married/divorced parental couples throughout the Arrowverse and Catherine/Jacob have to be the worst ones. The writers have done nothing to make them come across as a couple let alone a couple that is in love so Catherine coming clean and Jacob being pissed at her made me feel nothing.

    ![/QUOTE]

    Which is pretty much how I felt as well. I really don't know anything about Catherine as a character, and she's been pretty much in the background, so the reveal doesn't have the impact on the audience that I think they were going for.

    You add to that ,the fact that we're only in episode 4 ,and we're just getting to know these characters. The reveal almost felt like a mid-season finale or season finale type of revelation.
     
  10. Thome216 Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,976
    Likes Received:
    598
    In the Like column for this one. Opposed to others, I felt RR came across as far less wooden than in other episodes, esp her scenes with Reagan. I think she has a good enough range to cover the happy/carefree moments (like with Reagan) and the stoicism while as Batwoman.

    Also really liked her missing the batarang and Fox's digs while she couldn't respond.

    Unfortunate though that the Reagan-ship sailed so quick. Understandable and certainly better than being dragged to far out. I just really hope she doesn't start bed-hopping... She doesn't have to be an exact copy of Bruce Wayne.;)

    And that scene with her saving the little girl at the end was really well done. Very sweet.
     
    Speed Force likes this.
  11. WhoMani Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,269
    Likes Received:
    955
    Another meh episode. Even though I still feel Ruby Rose is wooden when she's Kate Kane, she's actually pretty good when she's Batwoman. I liked Luke and Mary a lot more, it's a worrying sign when I think the supporting cast is far more interesting or likable than the lead character in a superhero show/movie. Magpie was somewhat entertaining but I didn't like the costume. I didn't care for the Catherine subplot as she's mostly been a background character before this episode and the show hasn't shown enough of her relationship with Jacob to shock us of her betrayal. I did like that the episode explored Kate's struggle of having a double life and I kinda liked that Kate isn't a natural liar.

    That was one of the most ridiculous scenes that I have ever seen. It made no sense at all.
     
    #11 WhoMani, Oct 28, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  12. Karelia Always Hold On To Smallville

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,241
    Likes Received:
    605
    I think this has been my least favorite episode so far. It wasn't awful, but not good either. Just kinda... eh. Still gonna stick with it for a little while. Hopefully it'll progress into a decent show. Kinda shocked they gave it a full length season already.
     
  13. Frodo Registered

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    887
    I think they want to at least give the show time to really develop a strong following. Then if worse comes to worse and the show ends up a disappointment by the finale, they can at least have a season to sell or upload to DC universe streaming.

    I do think it will get better but they will probably refine some things, take some elements out, and add new elements in. I think they've got the some of the elements for a solid series already, but the show is probably gonna have to go through some changes and adjustments to really knock it out of the park week after week.
     
    Karelia likes this.
  14. Joined:
    Mar 10, 2015
    Messages:
    15,569
    Likes Received:
    5,402
    I think this might be favorite episode so far, but last week wasn't too bad either, so I'm glad it's getting a little better.

    I'm liking the dynamic between Kate and Luke and Alice is growing on me.

    I agree with what others said about Catherine and Jacob - that storyline is just so boring and I really don't care.

    I wish the action was better though. The little fight scene between Batwoman and Magpie was pretty weak and that scene with the cape was just lolworthy. I don't expect great choreographed fight sequences like Daredevil, but Arrow has some great fight scenes and so does Supergirl.
     
  15. Dr. From parts unknown

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Yeah, that did look a tad goofy. Might be one of those things that seemed good on paper - but the director kludged the execution.

    And yes, the fight choreography has been somewhat underwhelming. I figured Batwoman would have borrowed the stunt coordinators from Arrow - who do a pretty good job. Granted, Kate is still learning the ropes. But at least in one-on-one combat (vs. Elliot in ep. 3, vs. Magpie in ep.4), you’d expect her to dominate. Instead, the bad guys hold their own for a good spell.

    *
    On a different subject… I keep anticipating the episode when Gotham suddenly looks more like Vancouver than Chicago. :word: But that hasn’t happened yet. And I’m not just talking about generic establishing shots and stock footage. In “Who Are You?” (for example) Kate and Reagan had a walk-and-talk scene that appeared to take place in a very Chicago-like outdoor location. In any case… whether it’s actual location stuff or movie trickery, Batwoman’s Gotham does look different than the other Arrowverse cities. Kudos.
     
  16. Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    29,084
    Likes Received:
    2,264
    I thought the episode was ok. Not sure if any other version of Magpie will top the one from Beware the Batman for me.
     
  17. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    56,683
    Likes Received:
    5,913
    I also thought that it looked just like Chicago. Anyone watching who knows it well would just think it's that rather than Gotham.

    Reagan should've stuck around. She's more interesting than the other cast members. It would be nice if they brought her back and she were in on the secret.
     
  18. Dr. From parts unknown

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Batwoman’s Gotham City not being sufficiently expressionistic (or “gothic”) is a separate question. I just think that not looking like the other Arrowverse "Generic Cities" (Star, Central and National) is a notable accomplishment.
     
  19. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    105,645
    Likes Received:
    24,010
    It totally does look like them though. :funny:

    There is some Supergirl season 1 "wokeness" on this show that turns me into the Undertaker at least 5 times a week. The Maddow segments are somehow worse.
     
    #19 DarthSkywalker, Nov 3, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    Snow Queen likes this.
  20. Dr. From parts unknown

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    :funny: means you’re joking, right?

    Of course, the series is mainly shot in and around Vancouver. This includes all (studio) interiors and many exteriors. Thus, if the production just needs a nondescript back alley for a fight scene, a Vancouver back alley would be the obvious (and economical) choice.

    But it’s also clear that at least some exterior scenes are done in Chicago. Tellingly, these tend to be modest drama/dialogue moments - no elaborate stunts or action. Still, this location work - with its skylines, architecture, wide streets and distinctive canals and bridges, etc. - is conspicuously not Vancouver. And this visual contrast to the other Arrowverse shows is to Batwoman’s credit (even if you dislike it for a myriad of other reasons).

    One article I came across mentioned that two different Chicago scenes would ultimately end up in two different episodes. So it seems that a degree of preplanning is entailed with these production jaunts to the Windy City. I’m still wondering, though, if this location stuff is just for the first few episodes (to establish a certain vibe and physicality to the series). Or is the plan for this to be a permanent feature…? :thf:
     
  21. Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    13,650
    Likes Received:
    5,919
    I feel like the choice to shoot partially in Chicago is having the adverse effect of making things feel rather small. Beyond a rooftop here and there, everything not tightly hugging the side of a building in Vancouver since the pilot has been along the Chicago river. Mary and Catherine's conversation in the latest episode, Kate and Jacob's conversation in the latest episode, Kate and her date's conversation in the episode the thread is for, constant motorcycle shots, Alice's transport that she intercepts. There's another location here or there, but the overuse of that river is becoming a bit tiresome at this point. I assume they keep going back to it because it's prominent in the Nolan movies and half the reason the show exists is to crib imagery from Batman stuff, but it's just becoming a bit obnoxious that they keep using the same spot.

    There's an odd line that's bugging me in this one. It's the choice to have the monologue about how she was outed in school and has been "out and proud ever since" and that she's never hidden who she is. It's a weird thing to throw in there given the backstory a mere three episodes ago prominently featuring her joining the military, very much not being out and seemingly wanting to be in the military in the long term despite DADT being a thing and so obviously not being able to be the out part of that. While I don't begrudge anyone not being open about themselves for fear of discrimination or because they just don't want to be, it is in no way a personal failing as it sometimes gets spun in media portrayals, it feels jarring and inconsistent to put it that way when her goal was to be part of an organization where she could not be that and it makes up one of the key turning points in her backstory.

    I'm also a bit lost about the Crows subplot. It really comes out in this episode as they continue to perform the role the police would normally serve. I guess we're just supposed to accept an uncritical view on private military organizations essentially replacing police officers? While police have very well publicized horrible problems, replacing them with a private military group seems like a big step in the wrong direction, to say the least. It's just weird the show has (so far) just made this a neutral thing.

    The show's crucial shortcoming continues to be that it's just kinda boring. Even the characters I thought were fine in the pilot are becoming increasingly bothersome, while the rest of the cast is lifeless. It's at its worst with Kate, Alice and Jacob though, with Ruby Rose's attempts to act looking pretty comical and Alice feeling forced and unnatural in her performance.
     
    DarthSkywalker likes this.
  22. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    105,645
    Likes Received:
    24,010
    That monologue forgot their own first 4 episodes. I don't blame them. :o
     
    Snow Queen likes this.
  23. Dr. From parts unknown

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    In the flashback scenes of Kate getting booted from the military academy, she already seemed to be out and proud. (Indeed, she was confidently defiant in her refusal to sign a document that would give her a second chance.) So the news that Kate was sanguine about her orientation at a young age should come as no particular surprise.
     
  24. Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    13,650
    Likes Received:
    5,919
    The reason she has to sign the document in the first place is because, under DADT, you could not be out. You were forbidden from disclosing your sexual orientation, having relationships, or speaking on the subject. She was not allowed to be out. She joined an organization where they said that up front, so either she joined with the intent of not being out and continuing to not be out in the future (until repeal, of course, but I don't see anything indicating it was, to paraphrase a common line, two weeks from repeal when she was kicked out), or she joined intending to continue to be out and for her time there to be a revolving door. The latter is a pretty weird motivation, but the former makes sense. But then it gets confused by this monologue about how she's never hidden who she is. That's...literally what she signed up for, and why their relationship was a secret that got outed.
     
  25. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    105,645
    Likes Received:
    24,010
    Yeah, that is the very basis of it, which is why Biden has been getting some blowback over it during his campaign this time around. The entire idea was to be in the military, you had to lie about being gay. You had to hide it, which is why by default Kate would of had to sign up to not be out, nor proud about it.

    That is why it is such a heavy moment in the original comic version of the plot.
     
    Snow Queen likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"