Episode 01/10 - "How Queer Everything is Today!"

Discussion in 'Batwoman' started by Dr., Dec 26, 2019.

  1. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    I am watching the show right now and I just saw the bathroom scene... good lord. I did not know this show could get worse, but they figured out a way!
     
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  2. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    That's true. Mine was more of a commentary on how bad she is in general.
     
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  3. Flash525 The Scarlet Messenger

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    Oh I wasn’t expecting a radical increase in acting ability.

    I was instead hoping Ruby Rose was never cast in the first place. She brings nothing to the character of Kate Kane at all, short of her lesbian agenda.

    :rolleyes:
     
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  4. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    Kate's secret...
    As one who is 1000% pro LGBTQ+, the way they approach it on this show is choking the life out of me. It is aggressively fake woke. It is worse then early Supergirl was in terms of feminism. Part of me wonders if they will be able to strike a better approach like Supergirl did, but I don't find any aspect of this show well written, so I don't expect it.
     
  5. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    When you took off that mask, I never thought it would be you...

    Really? Who else could it be with that neck? :funny:
     
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  6. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    So this is actually in the episode...

    Yeah, thanks for narrowing down exactly who you are. Also remember the message from Rises? That anyone could be under the mask, because Batman is a symbol that represents everyone? This show is written by angst riddled teens.

    That end scene, Rose's acting... I'm dead. :lmao:
     
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  7. Joined:
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    The bathroom scene broke me. The show's not good, but like it's kinda standard stupid for the most part. Like it bugs me because I care about the material they're adapting, but it's mostly just plain bad writing anchored by a trio of awful performances that can't elevate bad material the way the casts of some of the other shows can. But there was a moment the show wanted to be important. It wanted to pat itself on the back. There's a scene in the Supergirl pilot that's always bugged me, and it's in I want to say a diner. Someone sees Supergirl on the TV and says "finally, a superhero my daughter can look up to." The bathroom scene, and really the whole episode, was just that scene for 40 minutes. It feels so self-congratulatory and self-important in a way the show doesn't earn. But what really stuck out to me about the bathroom scene was that it felt like they had written a fictional version of what they imagine a portion of their viewers to be, and used that to prop themselves up via the character. It felt unnatural at best and patronizing at worst.

    Doubling back to the material though, I noticed they seem to be doing Nocturna this season. If I had to pick the absolute worst thing I've seen done with the character, it's the Nocturna storyline. The bar is set so low it's buried six feet under, so long as the show doesn't try to write off rape with 'you actually wanted it', it can't possibly do worse than the source material on this one.
     
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  8. Sithborg Oooh, plot twist!

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    I mean, Batwoman is the rare case where I kind of want the supporting cast to get bigger, if just because I enjoy the supporting cast more than the lead.
     
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  9. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    Other then this show of course... let's just call it a tie.

    You know what makes this all weirder/worse? Watchmen did all this stuff. The gay hero, the female hero, the minority hero, the hidden identity metaphor, etc. We can talk about budgets for days, but that isn't the issue. Watchmen cover the utter gambit of social issues we face today in 9 episodes, and never once felt like it was unnatural or patronizing. It never had to tell you it was doing it, nor did it want credit, because it was a story about these characters and it all cam naturally. Batwoman is trying to handle feminism and being LGBTQ+, and it somehow found out a way to do more harm then good on both subjects. And I just... I can't.

    I will disagree on one thing. I do think the actress playing Beth is decent. I don't like how they have written her or what they are asking her to do, but she seems decent and I think with better material she'd be more then decent. Not that same for anyone else on this show though.
     
    #34 DarthSkywalker, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  10. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    But isn't that bad? Because Batwoman's core story is so strong, that they are squandering it.
     
  11. Joined:
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    Watchmen was great, and felt a lot more thoughtful than this show does. I mean, I don't expect great writing from the CW, certainly not on par with a show like that, but that also doesn't make it any better. And honestly, it doesn't make it a very good avenue for handling social issues like they clearly want to. It's one of the reasons I rather enjoyed what I saw of Legends seasons 2 and 3. There was no pretense of self-importance there. It was dumb, and it was gleefully so. I can go with that. I loved Gotham, though I dropped off during season 4. One of the shows I am most excited about every week is Riverdale. It's not remotely well written, but it is having such a good time being absurd I can't help but have a good time with it. They had a villain dressed like Evil Knievel planning to ride off a building in a rocket and it is one of my favourite things I saw on TV in 2019. But this show wants to act like it's a serious drama, one capable of handling complex issues, and the writing quality just isn't there for it. This episode really put the spotlight on that.

    I should clarify, I don't think the actress is bad. Ruby Rose and Dougray Scott are awful in a way I don't think any writing or directing would improve. Skarsten is different to me in that I don't think she's outright bad, but I think she's turning in a bad performance. Under different writing and direction, she'd probably do quite well, but so far the performance never comes together into anything that feels like a real character.
     
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  12. Milk Tray Guy 70s Man of Action

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    I now want to watch Riverdale.
     
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  13. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    Early Riverdale tries to be serious, and because of that it is just another lame CW show. But at the start of season 2 they started letting lose and getting crazier and crazier. Now it is appointment television for me every week. It is like a parody of a CW show, while being the most CW show of all time. I love it so. :atp:
     
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  14. Milk Tray Guy 70s Man of Action

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    Thank you Darth :yay: I'll have to check its availability here in the UK...
     
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  15. Joined:
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    I cannot recommend it enough if you want to just laugh at the absurdity. Season 1's a bit of a slog, but my god once it gets going, it's beautiful.

    And don't forget the best character finally arrives in season 2.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Milk Tray Guy 70s Man of Action

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    Cheers Snow Queen! :up:
     
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  17. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    If only Kate's dad was as awesomely telenovela as Hiram. :atp:

    Also as awesome as he is, I doubt that is what you are looking at in the second gif Queeny... :cwink:
     
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  18. Dr. From parts unknown

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    I suppose... :cool:

    My view:

    I’m not too keen that a tabloid interview was the means that BW used to reveal her orientation to Gotham.

    I prefer superheroes to be mysterious and enigmatic figures. So by my reckoning, they wouldn’t/shouldn’t grant interviews, pose for photos or publically accept “keys to the city” and other similar awards. True, this sort of Silver Age goofiness happens all the time on Supergirl. But up to now, Batwoman has aimed for a slightly more realistic approach. However, it appears that a merged Earth-Prime means new rules and a blending of tones. :shrug:

    That said, I do endorse the idea that BW’s orientation would (at some point) become public knowledge. And the groundwork for this was laid in a couple of prior episodes. I.e., Kate has been conflicted about being out, proud and honest as a civilian - but closeted/assumed to be straight as BW. So in dramatic terms, the disclosure (itself) was a matter of when, not if.

    Now, it is actually “realistic” that (in-universe) social and gossip media (Catco, Vesper Fairchild, etc.) would make much ado about BW being gay. But for me, a secretive masked vigilante :ninja: giving an interview and posing for magazine cover was way too cutesy.
     
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  19. Thome216 Registered

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    Just saw and, for the most part, I liked it. Yes, a Bat-gadget or two could have stopped Alice's pontificating, but I'll give it a pass. Except for Sophie pistol-whipping a suspect.... WTF..? So I take it the Crows will now be going rogue with their leader in jail? Her and Batwoman's little 'talk' in the alley should have been about not assaulting bound and captive perps!

    As to her outing herself, this has been built up from previous episodes including Kate's aversion to hiding who she is. That's not an agenda. That's like saying being straight is also an agenda, but one that just has broader appeal and acceptance. It's simply who the character is. Nor does her being outed mean that no one can still be behind the mask. If we are going to take it that literally, then certainly no man could ever be behind the mask since obviously Batwoman is a woman. (Plus, isn't that more of a Spidey thing..?)

    How they did it was good too. A nice tie-in to the unified Earth they are all living on now, and yes I can imagine Batwoman standing still long enough for Kara to get a good snap for the cover. And a magazine cover is certainly less of a 'bat-to-the-head' way of doing it than her just smooching some random woman for the camera. In fact, I did half expect her to land one on Sophie just after turning Slam down in order to make that point. (What the heck kind of name is Slam anyway!?) Wish Slam had more of a role as well, rather than just as Random Hunky Guy Number One. (I doubt we'll ever see him again.)

    And finally we get the same kind of multiverse whamo that all the Brainys gave us on Supergirl! I really thought Mary was seeing things when Beth entered the University. Real nice having her be the real thing and I can't wait to see the next episode to find out how it all shakes out. Also really hoping Beth being there is not just a temporary thing. I'd like to see her and Kate finally being the sisters they were meant to be all along. (Surprise Daddy, you have four daughters, and good thing for you, two are still normal!)

    Although, I think Beth showing up could very well throw Alice truly through the Looking Glass into madness...
     
  20. Craig Campbell Ucragnian

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    I knew it wouldn't be long before the 'Gay' thing becomes all the series would be about....

    Which is a shame 'cause Ruby Rose is an awesome choice for Kate Cain.
    In the cartoons, Kate was already gay....KATE....NOT BATWOMAN..... crime-fighters in masks don't openly discus their sexuality for a good reason.....(Imagine if Batman declared in the press that he really likes boobs) ..... tend to take away some of the mystique wouldn't it

    She just basically handed anyone looking, the key to her, not so secret identity...

    So BAT-WOMAN'S openly gay....Gee she fights well and with all those weapons, probably stands to reason she's had some military training...
    Also...
    From the part of the face that you can see...put the age at late 20's to mid 30s....

    Without actually looking anywhere else but the local military colleges..let's see if anything jumps out and...oh look ... Kate Cain...dishonorably discharged for being gay...Found ya !!

    When does Batman give statements about his personal life to the press....or statements of any kind for that matter.
    The other biggy is....Where are her damn guns ???
    The coolest thing about Batwoman is that she uses guns and didn't play by Batman's rules.
     
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  21. Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    Outside of mentioning Oliver's death and the Catco cover, I wasn't thinking much was affected by the Crisis.
     
  22. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    I thought the Crisis would change everything and that Ruby Rose would miraculously have Meryl Streep-like acting skills. I guess some things couldn't be fixed.
     
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  23. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    If they wanted to recast post Crisis, now would've been a prime opportunity for the lead of a show to suddenly look different.
     
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