Episode 1: "Pilot" (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Batwoman' started by Binker, Oct 6, 2019.

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What did you think?

  1. 10

    5.6%
  2. 9

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 8

    5.6%
  4. 7

    27.8%
  5. 6

    22.2%
  6. 5

    11.1%
  7. 4

    16.7%
  8. 3

    5.6%
  9. 2

    5.6%
  10. 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Joined:
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    I'm cool with Batman not being in the show, but I just feel like they replaced their dynamic (even when he's not around) with something that's less interesting. The cousin angle's always been kinda dumb, so I'm not super fond of leaning so hard on it. Mind you, I'll give the show a bit of credit, it's less coincidental and tacked on than in the comics. I just feel like the way they went about making that less convenient detract from potentially more interesting angles. It just doesn't feel as strong of a connection, despite leaning on overt family ties. The intangibility of Batman in her origin I think made for an interesting spin on it. I expected them to lean on all he cousin stuff, but I was taken by surprise with the decision to make her have anger towards him tied to her backstory, and moreso when that was just dropped with little fanfare. Why even add that wrinkle?
     
    #26 Snow Queen, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  2. X-Woman Always Xperimenting

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    I found it overly sentimental. Too soap-opera-ish. I don't need to know her whole backstory and all about her failed love affairs. At least not yet. I want to see some superhero action. The other stuff can wait.

    Most of CW's superhero shows are overly drippy to me. They spend too much time on feelings instead of heroics.

    I like that they brought in Alice, though. With any luck, maybe Nocturna will show up soon.
     
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  3. Speed Force Goober

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    So, does this whole season take place prior to last season's crossover? A little confused about the timeline on that now.
     
  4. Dr. From parts unknown

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    In my estimation, this pilot was actually… pretty good. :wow:

    I guess (despite my best effort to remain impartial) I had bought into the hype that this was going to be some enormous train wreck. And even after a nicely constructed intro and first act, I kept anticipating the moment when the wheels would (finally) fall off. But they never did. Overall, it was a decent, solid effort. Rose was okay; and Alice (the requisite “theme villain”) was far less campy and over-the-top than she seemed in the trailers.

    Of course, it’s entirely possible that this positive first impression was formed by low expectations. So I’ll get back to you after giving this episode another watch (whereupon I might rescind everything said above :ninja:).

    Speaking of low expectations… I’m impressed by the level of critical analysis that some folks have expressed in their posts. And if the rest of the Arrowverse was renowned for its Aaron Sorkin-level of writing, such analyses would be valid. Fact is, though, the bar is set pretty low for these shows. So comparing apples-to-apples, I thought Batwoman acquitted itself rather well. Granted, a pilot/origin story isn’t encumbered by the convolutions, self-contradictions and recapitulations that inevitably accumulate as these series age. The real test comes after the world-building is established and the novelty factor is gone.
     
  5. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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    I believe the first half of the season is a "prequel" and then it will be in present day by the time COIE comes around.
     
  6. Speed Force Goober

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    That makes sense, thanks.
     
  7. Karelia Always Hold On To Smallville

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    Had no intentions of watching this, but I did anyways. Actually didn't think it was too bad. Maybe my expectations were just that low. But I thought it was a decent pilot. May stick around for a few more episodes and see if it keeps my interest.
     
  8. Slick Yup

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    Overall I liked it. I mean I feel like it’s Arrowverse good and really that’s all I need since I enjoy this universe. I’m sure as the show progresses it will get better anyway looking forward to the rest of the season.
     
  9. famicommander Registered

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    Better pilot than Legends, Arrow, Constantine, Smallville, Birds of Prey.

    Not as good as either Flash show or Black Lightning's pilot. About as good as Supergirl's.
     
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  10. WhoMani Registered

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    Well I thought it was a decent pilot and I would give it a 6/10. Its better than the Legends of Tomorrow and Arrow pilots.

    But honestly I found myself at times bored with this as the story itself wasn't engaging and it was really the action scenes that kept my attention. There's nothing compelling about Kate and she feels like a female version of Oliver Queen from Arrow series 1 in which she's just a brooding stoic character that's devoid of any charisma. I agree with others that Ruby Rose wasn't great and she sounds so flat when she delivers her lines, it feels like she's reading off a script. I hope they ditch the narration.

    Alice feels like a female version of the Joker and the actress is trying to hard to come across as crazy but it doesn't feel authentic to me. Alice comes across more as a petulant child that love attention than a difficult big bad that Kate has to overcome.

    I sort of liked Luke even though he's a stereotypical computer nerd sidekick that's in most of the Arrowverse shows. I found Mary was more likable and charming than Kate and it wouldn't surprise me if the show decides to ship Kate with Mary. I didn't care for the love triangle that the show will be pushing.

    At the moment this show isn't for me and I will probably drop it after the third or fourth episode if I don't see any improvement in its writing.

    I more or less agree with your list. The only disagreement I have is that I don't think Grant Gustin is a good actor and he's average at best.. well at least for me. The only actors that I consider to be great/talented from your list is Melissa Benoist, Cress Williams, Matt Ryan and John Wesley Shipp are the best superhero lead actors. Everyone else ranges from average to mediocre.
     
  11. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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    I bought the season on Amazon so I rewatched it and it definitely plays a little better without the commercial breaks.

    While they do fine capturing the mood of Gotham, they still need to work ok the quirkiness of Gotham.
     
  12. Joined:
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    To be clear, it's more or less the writing quality I expected. I wasn't expecting high level craft here, given their history. I do think it's a bit worse than their usual, and the feeling of wanting to be taken so seriously hurts it compared to something goofier like Supergirl and Legends, but it's not shocking. I don't disagree the bar is set low here. I do think the biggest issue though is the lead. Shows like Supergirl and Legends, the only two I really intend to get back to at this point, had some leads I enjoyed that lifted up bad material. For every scene of Winn being grating, there's a scene of Kara and Alex and I think the two actors have great chemistry. This pilot doesn't really have that, with Ruby Rose a charisma black hole and her relationship with her dad hurt twice over by a pretty bland actor in that role as well. I think a number of the supporting actors are pretty decent, notably Mary, Sophie and even Luke Fox who I expected to loathe. He's annoyingly comfort zone for them but I don't think he's awful or anything at the moment. But supporting actors can't make up for Rose, Scott and a villain with a lack of teeth. Normally, I mean the villains aren't much to write home about, but as this is one I like and I know is likely to be important rather than just a season arc, it does have more of an impact.

    As well, and this is especially just for myself more than anything else is, I just don't care with those shows. Beyond leads I enjoy, I don't feel so strongly about the mythos with those characters. This is one that I do care about. We all have them, this is mine, and so I'm going to be a bit more critical on it and I'm a bit less forgiving when they squander moments that should have been more impactful. Particularly the origin material, as those three issues in particular (though Elegy as a whole) are some of my favourite comic stuff. I totally get why that's not everyone, and I know there are people who feel similar ways on the other shows and they way they mess with their characters that don't bug me.
     
    #37 Snow Queen, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
    flickchick85 likes this.
  13. Frodo Registered

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    I wasn't looking for The West Wing either. I didn't come in with high or low expectations since I know zip about the character other than what I saw on the last crossover. I didn't come into the point with a high or low bar . It wasn't a case of me wanting X and getting Y.

    I took it as is, and as a pilot , I didn't find it that strong. That said , the show in general has potential. Some shows like Flash, Arrow, Smallville and Black Lightening hit their stride right out of the gate ,while other shows take tweeking and fine tuning, like Supergirl . I'd say this pilot is closer to Supergirl's pilot.

    I think the lead is strinking and holds your attention when she's on screen, so right there you've got a reason to see what she's about if nothing else quite gels yet.
     
  14. Supperhero Supreme Keeper of the X-Men Movie Continuity

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    Oh well. Batman and his Bat Family win again, as always.

    First and foremost, I'm a huge Batman fan, so I'm looking forward this. The suit looks great and I love Batwoman as character. I'm sure this series will be fine.

    Said that, I don't give a **** about actors or actresses' sexuality or gender. Controversy and criticism are ridiculous to say the least.
    Americans... funny people.
     
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  15. Dr. From parts unknown

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    Fair enough. :toth

    I never followed Batwoman; so this show (for better or worse) is my introduction. Generally, I find derivative characters (like Batwoman) to be highly contrived - over and above the contrivance of the principal character (Batman, in this case). But granting that these spinoff heroes are an established trope of the genre, I’m not really expecting a unique origin story because, by definition, these derivative heroes are not really unique. So the version told in this pilot episode worked fine for me.
     
  16. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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    I wonder what happened to Joker. Is he dead? In Arkham? On a road trip with Batman?
     
  17. Sithborg Oooh, plot twist!

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    I think what killed the pilot for me was all the very bland voice overs explaining everything.

    The supporting cast is good, luckily.
     
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  18. Mani-Man Registered

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    So i just finished the first episode.
    Im unsure to be honest.
    There is a lot of potential, the support cast is good and Ruby Rose has room to grow...but they have all bad CW traits in there and after a dozen of CW style shows...that is not something i can overlook.

    Also im not feeling this gotham, its better than Gotham in the Gotham show...but still not feeling the unique character of the city.
    And im not a friend on how they deal with Bruce/Batman here.
    Dont get why they cant at least use Bruce Wayne here from time to time...they do him dirty here and that is something that doesnt sit right with me.
    You easily could have him show up from time to time while Kate gets to protect one part of gotham that Bruce doesnt...gotham is freaking huge, you dont need some bad "he is gone since a long time" story to have her go around Gotham.
    The Whole batman stuff was weird and wacky as hell...the suit still looks decent enough, but considering this Batman is around for a few years...the suit looks amateurish.

    One thing i didnt like either is how often it felt "nolan light" to me...which never is good.

    But i will give it 5 episodes maybe a season, there is potential there to like despite its flaws.
    Maybe i will need to digest the episode more, but thats my initial thoughts on it.
     
  19. m1ll3r Registered

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    The sub par Nolan stuff really was quite awful. Better to have avoided the comparison, and plough their own furrow. Bit sad, really.

    Otherwise, pretty much what I expected from a CW pilot.

    It’s endlessly stupid that Bruce, and everyone else, is magically missing from Gotham, but inevitable I guess.

    5.5/10.
     
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  20. Thome216 Registered

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    I do wonder when someone will ask why Bruce has been gone for the same amount of time as Batman. That's a little too close to the Clark/Superman stuff, like trying to explain where Clark has gone while Superman is missing. But, that's par for the course in superhero shows, I guess.

    For the feel of the show I'm okay with 'Nolan-lite.' Heck, the only thing I don't like about the Dark Knight is Bale's over the top Batman voice in the latter movies. Hopefully, RR will refrain from that.

    For the voice-over, casting it as her writing a note to Bruce should he ever return redeemed it a bit. Not enough to what to hear it anymore, but they fitted it in there alright in the end.

    One thing I hope to see is more of is the ghostly aspects of the villains from the comic.I have little hope of seeing it, but that would really set it apart from the other CW shows. How often does Green Arrow or Flash go after ghosts..?
     
  21. WhoMani Registered

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    Its funny that Kate (or anyone else in Gotham) never figured out or considered that Bruce Wayne is Batman since they've both disappeared at the same time.
     
    #46 WhoMani, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  22. WhoMani Registered

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    I can't see the show addressing Joker or any of Batman's rogue gallery unless one of them will actually appear on the show.
     
  23. Thome216 Registered

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    They shouldn't need to though, since she has a whole rogues gallery from the comics. I wouldn't mind her tackling some of Batman's crooks, they are in the same city after all, but it would be a shame to let all of them go unused. Except for Alice of course.
     
  24. Thome216 Registered

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    Dang double posty!
     
  25. Sithborg Oooh, plot twist!

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    I figure the A-list villains are off limits. And then, just need to figure out which bat villains Arrow hasn't already used...
     
    WhoMani and Thome216 like this.

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