The Penguin Episode 4: Cent'Anni (Spoiler Thread)

Another great episode. Carmine was ruthless and the Falcones as a family are pieces of crap. I love how the series had us sympathize with Penguin but this episode shows you the scum bag Penguin that we Batman fans grew up to hate and fear. Not looking good for Victor. It’s amazing how in one episode this show can turn a naive character like Sophia into a powerful threat to the underworld. I am pleasantly surprised that the show will either end with Penguin vs Sophia or by the time Batman 2 comes around they will be fighting for crown of king or queen of the underworld. Episode 5 can’t get here soon enough.
 
One thing I did notice btw

Did anyone else clock the scratch marks on Falcone's hand when he discovers Sofia and her mother?

This show is un-goddamn-real in how good it is. Next Sunday cannot come soon enough
I didn't realize it at the time, but a few scenes later, when Sofia mentioned it to Carmine, I went back and noticed the scratch marks.
 
What I honestly love about that episode, weirdly enough

is how much of the blueprint it outlines on the work that Batman needs to do in order to fix his city and why he exists in this version of Gotham at all considering how much more grounded it is. You don't automatically think of a universe like this and think of some long eared crusader of the night being in it. It's closer to Breaking Bad or Sopranos in terms of the tone of Gotham's underworld.

Which is exactly what makes Batman work in this universe. I can't get this image out of my head, of how I'd personally end this show. I'm not saying they will, in fact I'm pretty sure it isn't gonna end like this considering the info we've been provided by people who watched the entire show early.

But I can't help but imagine something along the lines of this

Penguin on top as the head of crime in Gotham, celebrating his victory over Sofia in the Falcone mansion, having a grand old time on top of the world

only for a smoke grenade to get lobbed through the window



Roll credits.

The fact that it is theoretically possible for this to happen, in this universe, makes me love it even more for the sheer catharthis of it.
 
What I honestly love about that episode, weirdly enough

is how much of the blueprint it outlines on the work that Batman needs to do in order to fix his city and why he exists in this version of Gotham at all considering how much more grounded it is. You don't automatically think of a universe like this and think of some long eared crusader of the night being in it. It's closer to Breaking Bad or Sopranos in terms of the tone of Gotham's underworld.

Which is exactly what makes Batman work in this universe. I can't get this image out of my head, of how I'd personally end this show. I'm not saying they will, in fact I'm pretty sure it isn't gonna end like this considering the info we've been provided by people who watched the entire show early.

But I can't help but imagine something along the lines of this

Penguin on top as the head of crime in Gotham, celebrating his victory over Sofia in the Falcone mansion, having a grand old time on top of the world

only for a smoke grenade to get lobbed through the window



Roll credits.

The fact that it is theoretically possible for this to happen, in this universe, makes me love it even more for the sheer catharthis of it.

The irony is that no characterization of the Batman has ever fixed Gotham. Bat’s needs to let Superman and Wonder Woman clean the city up for him. :woozy: 😉
 
Agreed with the overall sentiment I've seen in here; good episode carried by Millotti, wish we got Tuturro instead of Strong. Character wise, I wonder if Oz would have betrayed Sofia if she didn't devalue him like so many other people do in his life, especially when he probably cares for her the most.
 
The irony is that no characterization of the Batman has ever fixed Gotham. Bat’s needs to let Superman and Wonder Woman clean the city up for him. :woozy: 😉
Why do people keep attributing an issue with mainstream comic canon as a whole to a single character
 
Why do people keep attributing an issue with mainstream comic canon as a whole to a single character
It’s a question that everyone asks about Batman. Does he need Gotham’s villains? Did he actually create them with his vigilante? It’s what makes Gotham city and the Batman story so great.
 
It’s a question that everyone asks about Batman. Does he need Gotham’s villains? Did he actually create them? It’s what makes Gotham city and the Batman story so great.
I get that argument but it does also come down to general isssues with mainstream comic canon having to perputually maintain a status quo. Gotham's always a cesspool that Batman's struggling to save, Lex Luthor's always trying to kill Superman, Wonder Woman always struggles to bridge her two worlds. DC won't risk changing that in the long term and it honestly annoys me
 
I didn't recognize Mark Strong with the hair and the mustache
Thought it was Kim Coates when I first saw him (who could also probably be a good Carmine)
Surprised they couldn't get Tuturro back though
 
To be honest, I think I prefer Mark Strong's take on Carmine than Turturro's. Turturro was a great slimy, manipulative creep in The Batman, but I was never scared of him. This version of Falcone was intimidating. You see why he is such a powerful mob boss here.

I love how this show/universe depicts Gotham. It is rotten to its core. It corrupts everything it touches. Sofia starts off as this nice, loving daughter who is a bit naive. She seems likable and you feel sorry for her. And a decade in Arkham just breaks her. Her father has her sent there, with all the guards and doctors in his pocket. Her human rights are violated. All because she knew way too much about her father for her own good. And the end result is that she becomes her father. She kills that woman in her family along with almost everyone else in that dining room, and manipulates and lies to that woman's young daughter the same way her father was manipulating and lying to her. Harvey Dent's iconic line in TDK just comes to mind: You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. In Gotham City, that is absolutely true. Your innocence and goodness dies, or you die. You have to become a monster in order to survive.
 
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To be honest, I think I prefer Mark Strong's take on Carmine than Turturro's. Turturro was a great slimy, manipulative creep in The Batman, but I was never scared of him. This version of Falcone was intimidating. You see why he is such a powerful mob boss here.

To each his own, but I disagree, I found Strong as too stock a mob boss to be intimidating because I feel we've seen this type of character before. Turturro felt more authentic.
 
To each his own, but I disagree, I found Strong as too stock a mob boss to be intimidating because I feel we've seen this type of character before. Turturro felt more authentic.

I guess. :shrug:

I just don't care. Turturro was fine as a pathetic creep. He was hateable.

But Strong just had a stronger presence about him. You can see why Sofia walked on egg shells around him and was scared of him. I am kind of glad they recast Turturro for this show, because I don't think he would have been able to convey that same type of presence. It just would not have been the same.

I think both actors served the dramatic purpose their depictions of Carmine needed to serve. I don't know if a powerful intimidating mob boss would have worked in what Reeves wanted from the character in The Batman, so Turturro was right for that project. I don't think he would have been right for this show.
 

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