The Penguin Episode 4: Cent'Anni (Spoiler Thread)

Another great episode. Carmine was ruthless and the Falcones as a family are pieces of crap. I love how the series had us sympathize with Penguin but this episode shows you the scum bag Penguin that we Batman fans grew up to hate and fear. Not looking good for Victor. It’s amazing how in one episode this show can turn a naive character like Sophia into a powerful threat to the underworld. I am pleasantly surprised that the show will either end with Penguin vs Sophia or by the time Batman 2 comes around they will be fighting for crown of king or queen of the underworld. Episode 5 can’t get here soon enough.
I love that the show can get us to root for Penguin and then think he’s a POS next minute. The thought of them both appearing in Batman II is unreal, and I guess we’ll have an idea if it’s at least a possibility by the end of this show. I’d be super excited even if they broke the news that Batman, Selina and Gordon are all sitting it out. :funny:
 
Strong and Turro read like two sides of the same coin. Strong very much feels like the Crime Lord in his prime, ruling Gotham with an iron fist. Turro feels like that man much more withered with age and his equivalent to peace time arriving. He doesn't need to be intimidating or put on that style of front anymore. He has everything he's ever wanted, he can let the mask slip and nothing will happen to him really.
 
I love that the show can get us to root for Penguin and then think he’s a POS next minute. The thought of them both appearing in Batman II is unreal, and I guess we’ll have an idea if it’s at least a possibility by the end of this show. I’d be super excited even if they broke the news that Batman, Selina and Gordon are all sitting it out. :funny:
That’s just it. The greatness of the show is that it does not need Batman, Gordon, or Selina. It’s a show about the underworld of Gotham. Remember Sophia’s brother’s body was discovered outside of Gotham so even Gordon was not needed. Selina would want nothing to do with Carmine’s piece of crap family and Batman could care less about a mob war. Bliss will probably show up in The Batman 2 though.
 
That’s just it. The greatness of the show is that it does not need Batman, Gordon, or Selina. It’s a show about the underworld of Gotham. Remember Sophia’s brother’s body was discovered outside of Gotham so even Gordon was not needed. Selina would want nothing to do with Carmine’s piece of crap family and Batman could care less about a mob war. Bliss will probably show up in The Batman 2 though.
Yep, there are so many compelling characters already in the Reeves-verse now from just one film and half of one show. I'd love to see how they all interact or even avoid each other/tolerate/live and let live within that universe. I'm going to need another 50 films and shows if they keep this quality up.
 
Strong and Turro read like two sides of the same coin. Strong very much feels like the Crime Lord in his prime, ruling Gotham with an iron fist. Turro feels like that man much more withered with age and his equivalent to peace time arriving. He doesn't need to be intimidating or put on that style of front anymore. He has everything he's ever wanted, he can let the mask slip and nothing will happen to him really.
I love that description of them, nails it for me. :up:
 
I love that detail of reusing Kenzie to arrest Sofia.
Now see, that's a payoff for people who watched The Batman and are watching this. You see Kenzie and most would think 'Oh, it's just another GCPD officer,' but if you've seen The Batman, you recognize him and realize that, while there's no Battinson here, there's plenty of connective tissue to the movie.
 
Yep, there are so many compelling characters already in the Reeves-verse now from just one film and half of one show. I'd love to see how they all interact or even avoid each other/tolerate/live and let live within that universe. I'm going to need another 50 films and shows if they keep this quality up.
I keep hearing the rumors of multiple shows but DC/Matt Reeves has seen the Marvel Disney + mistake of having to many shows are that are related to the MCU. The Penguin took years to make and it appears that Reeves took his time. I could see a GCPD or Arkham show in 2028 to tie into the final Batman movie but that should be it. Don’t want to ruin a great thing. Penguin should be a one off series as well.
 
Practically giggled when the reporter said her name was Summer Gleeson. And Magpie too—I thought she would have been perfect for an Arkham series. And loved the added continuity with Kenzie reappearing.

What’s up with Julian Rush (Theo Rossi)? Is it crazy I keep thinking Julian Day / Calendar Man, or are others thinking his character will end up being a reveal too? Maybe it’s just coincidental and there’s only so many first names out there but the writers just name-dropped Summer Gleeson for crying out loud. Maybe there is something to it...there’s definitely got to be more to his story, in the very least.

I still think the name “Hugo Strange” is a bridge too far for this universe, especially since they thought Cobblepot was too silly, so I wonder who the head of Arkham will be. I like Jeremiah Arkham but Jonathan Crane is a very real possibility too.
 
Now see, that's a payoff for people who watched The Batman and are watching this.

Still more or less in this topic, would like to point this universe does a wonderful job in class privilege themes. In The Batman movie, Bruce fails to immediately figure it out Riddler used a very specific tool to kill the Mayor, with a specific purpose and hint to figure it out the broad plan behind it. It is only after Officer Martinez (hopefully he appears in the series, too, lol), a 'working class' man, points out it is a carpet tool, something very odd, that then Bruce realizes it must have had further connections to the rest of Riddler's schemes, since Edward never uses anything unnecessarily. That's how they discover the seawall bombs: under a carpet in Nashton's apartment.

Bruce's well born condition denied him to know many things and to perceive the world from another perspective, from another point of view, so much that it wasn't even a question of him being arrogant or a bad person, he was so accustomed and raised in the wealth he didn't even notice, it was simply natural. It is from that Ridller encounter he fully realized the importance and necessity of understanding and learning from another conditions, as well. Selina similarly points that during the movie in how overly idealistic some of his concepts of life were, as if they were that simple or easy. Perhaps to him, but not for the others who had to live different hardships everyday, every moment. Where there are too many greys in between black and white actions in order to 'survive'.

Unlike Bruce, Sofia does not seem to be in the way to realize that. She goes to Oz's place and immediately despises it, his car and all, not understanding that perhaps for a random nobody like him, having a good home in what seems to be a downtown district, a Maserati in the garage and running it's own 'business' was already more than he initially dream for, especially a person with disability and a scarred face, with all the stigmas that come from these things ("a guy like me?" ). Yes, certainly not her millions, but it is a lot to him. Enough to justify his life. Something she can't comprehend, because for her class these needs and cravings are non existent, and this is made abundantly clear in that Episode 3 final dialogue.

While a lovely brother to his sister, Alberto (note: show did a good way adding layers to these characters) is even more blind. Sofia still at least noticed Oz as a hard worker and that his efforts should been better rewarded. 'Berto', on the other hand, was so tone deaf he frankly humiliated the man, again, without even noticing. That car scene in Episode 4 portrays it blatantly.

It is narratively poetic that the rise of Oz comes from exact the same reason: mainly Sofia and Alberto's inability to acknowledge the lower class, to understand how to deal with the everyday man. This got Alberto killed, Sofia betrayed and is likely the very same reason as to why Oz will conquer the people around him. He knows their needs, what they want, how they think. It is why he is so good and effective with Vic, even if he initially put a gun to his face, remember.
 
I like how Tom Wilkinson’s Falcone has ended up being like the nice guy version of this character.

He was just a ****-talker that’s all.
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I still think the name “Hugo Strange” is a bridge too far for this universe, especially since they thought Cobblepot was too silly, so I wonder who the head of Arkham will be.

If they can change the Penguin's name, I don't see why they can't change Strange's. Call him Hugo Streng, with the inmates calling him Hugo Strange, boom, done.
 
I keep hearing the rumors of multiple shows but DC/Matt Reeves has seen the Marvel Disney + mistake of having to many shows are that are related to the MCU. The Penguin took years to make and it appears that Reeves took his time. I could see a GCPD or Arkham show in 2028 to tie into the final Batman movie but that should be it. Don’t want to ruin a great thing. Penguin should be a one off series as well.
After all this time, the MCU shows are just nowhere near the quality of Penguin, and most are not near the quality of half decent shows from all genres. Below average with a few exceptions, and all the non Marvel/ Star Wars shows I've watched in the last couple of years have been considerably better. If they'd released even just a few with Penguin quality out of all the ones that have been released, the conversation would be very different.
 
To each his own, but I disagree, I found Strong as too stock a mob boss to be intimidating because I feel we've seen this type of character before. Turturro felt more authentic.
This.

But, I’m justifying it as this was regular Falcone at his peak, and Turturro was the slimey hiding version that maybe got too cocky with his power.
 
Another very good episode ! And with quite a different feel from the first three.

They certainly gave Cristin Milioti a gem with this one, which sees her go from naive young woman to troubled, then tortured, mentally and physically, to a character bursting with theatrical madness.
And of course, she nailed everything! It's wonderful to see how blessed Batman villains are in live-action to get solid, memorable performances from their interpreters. And this show manages to get two of them!

One of the things I keep coming back to in the series is the care to bring a certain iconization in the visuals. The image of Sofia in a yellow dress and wearing a gas mask was striking and quite comic-booky. Just like Gotham’s look and the Bliss depiction, I really like how all of these offers a certain uniqueness to the series so it's not “just another gangster show”.

And I continue to greatly enjoy how the series really understands its format. While obviously progressing on an overall narrative, each episode has its own story, with the introduction of an event, an idea, its exploitation and a conclusion. It's perfect, with that added bonus of episode consistently endings with real and effective cliffhangers!

A damn solid show !

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Some various remarks :

- That Arkham was nightmarish and a bit over-the-top but in a good way. This horrific tone fits in with what I said earlier: this adaptation draws some of its strength from that balance between classic film noir tropes and comic-book extravagance.

-Despite what I've just said, I thought the "glockenspiel like scary music" when Sofia takes the little girl into the greenhouse was, perhaps, a little cliché.
It's nitpicking, but it's the first time in the series that something felt gimmicky enough to take me out of it, even if only briefly.

- It would have made sense for Hugo Strange to appear, but I don't see him happening, as the Ventris character could have been him...
Also, to give my two cents on the name discussion, I don't think “Strange” is all that out of place in the context of an asylum that looks this f***ed up, with mad doctors experimenting on inmates and organizing death matches...
And again, “Ventris”, how that for a name, huh? 😅

- About Mark Strong as Falcone :
Strong and Turro read like two sides of the same coin. Strong very much feels like the Crime Lord in his prime, ruling Gotham with an iron fist. Turro feels like that man much more withered with age and his equivalent to peace time arriving. He doesn't need to be intimidating or put on that style of front anymore. He has everything he's ever wanted, he can let the mask slip and nothing will happen to him really.
That's how I read it too. At no point did I feel that the interpretation itself made me notice the actor change.
I was able to put that aside in my mind and simply see this Falcone as the same as Turturro, but ten years younger. His posture is understandably a little more upright, his chest is fuller, his voice less raspy...
And like said, apart from the age factor, Falcone in The Batman has been holding on to his pyramid of power for some time, no longer needing to adopt a warmonger attitude, so... This works for me just fine.

- It was very cool to see Summer Gleeson! That, to me, is very natural and welcoming fan service (which is rare).
Too bad she got the “Jimmy Olsen treatment"… :o

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Bring on the next one!
 
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About the Hangman :

Gleeson and the cops were apparently only targeting recent hangings, Sofia being a credible perpetrator, while Falcone has probably been killing people all his life and, I guess, without bothering much about staging (Selina's mother?). My point is that making up his wife's murder as a suicide may have been a way of protecting his children, and isn't necessarily a signature…

I still think the series is misleading us and that Alberto has picked up some of his father's bad habits to become the Hangman.

It just makes too much sense to me. There's something a bit off/too evident for it to be Carmine, and it also feels like we don't know everything about Alberto...
Again, it's a superficial point, but Alberto is originally secretly a killer, so I suppose the series could use that at some point.

While I thought this hypothetical "betrayal from a beloved brother" would be the element that would drive Sofia to murderous madness (it's obviously already done now 😅), I suppose this revelation could yet be the ace up Oz's sleeve…
From a dramatic point of view, it's still a great card to play in my opinion... and we're only in the middle of the show...:D
 
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After all this time, the MCU shows are just nowhere near the quality of Penguin, and most are not near the quality of half decent shows from all genres. Below average with a few exceptions, and all the non Marvel/ Star Wars shows I've watched in the last couple of years have been considerably better. If they'd released even just a few with Penguin quality out of all the ones that have been released, the conversation would be very different.

Just watching the behind the scenes segments after the episode, they talk more about the art of the cinematography than you will ever hear in a Marvel project, even their movies.
 
Another random thought:

The show sometimes reminds me of Breaking Bad in the way it continually disrupts characters' plans, always forcing them to take more risks and get out of the worst situations in-extremis.
I wondered if this episode 4's final scene, with the yellow suit and gas mask, the murder/intoxication of a whole gathering/family of mobsters, wasn't some kind of nod.
But it's probably just a happy accident.

Just watching the behind the scenes segments after the episode, they talk more about the art of the cinematography than you will ever hear in a Marvel project, even their movies.
Amen!
 
Great episode. The scratch marks on Sofia’s neck being symbolic of her mother’s hanging as she descends into madness… wow. The podcast did a great job highlighting some of these details.

Is it Sunday yet?
 
I have one question about this episode and it's more nitpicks than anything else... you mean to tell me Johnny Viti didn't realize his bedroom window was open when he went to sleep? :o
 

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