The Penguin Episode 8: A Great or Little Thing (Spoiler Thread)

So, it looks like my predictions about Francis pushing Oz to sacrifice her to finally get power over Gotham were all wrong, ahah.
Kudos to the writers for not making the Penguin an anti-hero and delivering a truly irredeemable villain !

If it had seemed to me too expected to see Oz kill Victor, I have to admit that I still find this whole thing really well done.
The thing is, I hadn't thought Oz would do it without having a “really good reason” (so to speak... hum).
That's what makes the scene so sad and upsetting (and powerful) : there's no punishment here, just some twisted pragmatism.

And “twisted” is really the key word in this finale. Damn.

I'm kicking myself for not having thought that Francis could always have known what Oz had done to his brothers, and I love how that their relationship was in fact not just a toxic love but completely driven by each other's narcissism and ego. Francis kept Oz close to her out of pure self-interest, hoping that the cruelty of this son she hates would ensure her social ascension, while he doesn't seem so much to seek his mother's pride as to flatter himself with the idea of being a good son (still with me? :funny:).
When he places his now-paralyzed mother at the top of a building overlooking the city, it’s not about a promess made to her, but to him. By the way, that closing scene...

Firstly, Oz's look is absolutely perfect. We weren't sure if the Penguin's classic get-up would work in this universe, but with the series pushing more and more into its pulp origin and the introduction of music-hall elements into the character's background, everything falls in place. Just let him f**king smoke a big cigar in the next movies and we'll be good to go!
Secondly, I love the over-the-top atmosphere of Oz dancing with Eve dressed as his mother, while the latter is a prisoner of herself on the floor above... Again, there's something so comic-booky about it, it reminds me of Clayface (Preyston Payne) and his doll. And when the bat-signal lights up...
No, really, there's a degree of stylization here that reminds me of Burton, and I hope this universe continues in that vein!

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Now, just to share some nitpicks : I have to say that I feel like Sofia's character didn’t get a real conclusion, and to be frank, that letter from Selina didn't particularly excited me (yet?).
As far as we know, there don't seem to be any “real” plans for a sequel to Sofia's story, so it just felt a bit like a formulatic setup to me... But if there’s any chance to bring back Cristin Milioti, just do it !

Also, I really don't get what they wanted to do with Julian Rush. When Oz was holding Sofia at gunpoint, I thought of him, expecting him to pop up and get some finality to his purpose... but no.
And then he's somehow back at Arkham ? I get it, he's following Sofia but... what for exactly? This relation seems half-cooked and I suspect some reverse engeneering here, as it feels like Julian is a character only create to have the others getting some information here and there. More of a plot device disguised as a character than a genuine creation.

One last thing: to me, the scale of the different gangs wasn't very clear. When Sofia was with Maroni, it felt like they were almost alone, but when she talked about auctioning off her family empire, everyone was still interested. Besides, all those little gangs seemed pretty, well, little... When Victor brings them together to help Oz, it looked like each one of them was made up of no more than a leader, a lieutenant and 3 or 4 henchmen...
Anyway, it's a detail but it made me raise an eyebrow occasionally.

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So, all in all, a great finale to a really great show !

Everything related to the title character was VERY on point and that Penguin is definitely among my favorites Batman villain on live-action. Such a cool, charismatic and absolutely cruel character. Really looking forward to see more of him… but in the movies ! Despite my love for the show, I don’t think this should get a second season... We'll see.
In any case, that Penguin is now big enough and perfectly ready to confront Batman again and I hope he'll be that terrible itch the caped crusader can't scratch all along the saga.


EDIT :
Oh, I hadn't done a mini-review of the previous episode (which I really liked) but I wanted to say that Rader Allen was simply excellent in the role of young Oz.
I really felt like I was watching the same character. Really great casting and performance here.
 
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I will say that Theo Rossi does feel like the one element of the show that didn’t really work out, but one way I’ve come to see that character…

He’s the anti-Vic. Rather than being the henchman that became so indispensable that he actually managed to worm his way into Oz’s heart (to his own detriment), Rush can be Sofia’s sole remaining lifeline and potentially even a way out of Arkham… and he’s beneath notice. He could go far as a henchman.
 
Yeah, Rush getting his very specific job back isn’t that crazy to me. Don’t think we needed a scene for that.

I think the real problem people like myself have with Rush is really the editing of his scenes. You have to admit, he’s a character that just seems to pop in and pop out of scenes with little rhyme or reason. Which is why there were so many theories about him being a hallucination. His relationship with Sofia is not well developed, one minute he's a doctor at Arkham, the next he’s her lover, the next he’s essentially one of Sofia’s henchmen and then he’s a doctor again. We never see the connective tissue between these developments. His character just appears and disappears when needed. Theo Rossi’s acting definitely didn't help.

Thats literally the only area where the writing of the show was weak.
 
The fact that I felt sympathy for Oz [before the vic murder] when his mom was telling him how she truly feels while knowing he killed his brothers then in the same episode wanting Batman to beat him to a pulp is a testament to how good the writing was kudos to all involved

just pure garbage human being for going through Vic's Wallet after the murder my god man and to keep your mother alive like that knowing she specifically begged him not to let her live like that
THAT'S HOW U DO A VILLAIN ORIGIN

Sofia played too many games she had him dead to rights but chalk it up to plot armor i guess is my only nitpick of the series
 
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if Reeves Batverse wasn't so grounded... {with him even saying he would never full supernatural or too fantasy, specifically mentioning Gentlemen Ghost as an example} I say that could have even been a good set up for Victor to became (maybe not the traditional Gentlemen Ghost) but, a character like that... a Dead Man, Resurrection Man, even a Solomon Grundy type...ect some way of returning to haunt Oz, could have been an interesting direction

just saying

now there's nothing to say his actions wont catch up with him, or he wont be mentally tormented by it, that fits in fine the psychosomatic of his universe...
 
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Just finally got around to watching the finale last night. Won't write a novel of a post as plenty of my thoughts have been repeated throughout the thread but man I loved this show from beginining to end. This has been probably one of the best shows of the year and everyone involved deserves all the rewards for this.

Between this and The Riddler: Year One (which if no one has read it yet, go now!), this is how you do good really good multi-platform media. I imagine when The Batman Part II comes out, Reeves will make it in a way where if you don't watch this show, you probably won't miss anything. The end of the first movie pretty much sets up The Penguin is gonna rise to power. But with people like Paul Dano and Lauren LeFranc continuing to flesh out the world in different mediums, it really enhances the viewing experiences of this version of Gotham. As a fan of the MCU still, this is something I wish they were so much better at.

Whatever they got next, I'll be there for it.
 
Like many of you, I really enjoyed the show and how it showcased a villain who was allowed to truly be a villain: evil; understandable (but not sympathetic); and extremely entertaining to watch.

With our wild imaginations, it wasn't hard to guess or be surprised about the outcomes of certain characters even though we may have hoped for something different. But, in the end, this was the type of show that makes you just go, "Yeah, that was some good ****."
 
The premature talk of season 2 is giving me some pause.

I know, trust Reeves and LeFranc, etc. But I just really don't see the need at the moment. What more is there to say about Oz in a long format story? I feel like he's not that deep, actually, and that was the whole point of the ending. Colin is entertaining to watch in the role, no doubt, but I think there's a risk of overstaying your welcome here. I like the idea of exploring more about the corruption in Gotham, but that's where something like that Gotham PD show could be great. I'm definitely open to being wrong though, because this season blew my expectations away. I just think it's worth asking why, beyond the fact that it was a huge hit and WB wants more.
 
I'm ridicoulusly late at commenting here, but damn what a great season finale this was. Yeah, like anyone else I expected Vic to die somehow, but crap how they managed to do it showcasing Oz's true villiany. Totally unexpected that he did it with him not wanting anyone close to him, since it would make him weaker. Poor Vic, I'd loved for him to get a better life considering his family had got washed away.

Oz dancing with his sex worker girlfriend dressed up and responding to him as his mom, meanwhile with his real mom was in a coma, was truly disburbing, but also made us more awere how disturbed this character really has been from the beginning. The Batsignal at the end was just icing on the cake.

Great show from beginning to the end. Not sure if I'd want a season two of this - everything felt like a perfect intro to The Batman II.

Not even sure If I would want a bunch of spin offs either.

But of course I'd be a total fool not wanting a Reeves Catwoman show.
 
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There's a really good interview with Lauren LeFranc where she discusses the decision not to include Batman and Gordon in the show.


I don't think it was necessary for Batman to show up. I could see a case for Gordon although there really wasn't much of a spotlight on the GCPD in this but I at least got a kick out of seeing that gravelly voiced police chief again.

It would have been interesting seeing Jeffrey Wright in this since I just recently learned that he was married to Carmen Ejogo. Where are the Gordon/Eve Karlo shippers at? :o
 
I don't think it was necessary for Batman to show up but ngl there was a small part of me hoping to see Pattison cameo as Matches Malone at some point.
 
It would've been cool if there had been organic feeling mentions of Batman but honestly I don't think there's any spot in the series as is where him directly rolling up would have felt appropriate.
 

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