Eternals Eternals Spoilers Thread

[Havok83]

I don't see it that she lost her powers.

She is now human. It seemed pretty clear to me

 

[TeeKay]

They didn't think through the Deviants' or Kro's role in this story very well.

I think it was cut. I mean he mentions the Eternals killing his friends/family and wanting to get revenge. Fair enough, but I thought the twist of them being the first experiments was cool. I was expecting him to join the other Eternals into fighting Ikaris but he gets there and starts fighting them lol.

I had assumed the deviants would team up with the eternals, defeat Ikaris and Tiamut then you can have him give the monologue about his friends/family being killed. Then go from there. Otherwise? He sucked. I even forgot he was in the film.

 

[Holy Slapper]

She is now human. It seemed pretty clear to me

I don't see that being human means she lost her powers. This is comic books. Being human doesn't mean you can't have powers.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

She is now human. It seemed pretty clear to me

It was clear that she was human, but wasn't super clear that she had lost her powers to me. I mean, we didn't see Sersi take her powers or Celestial light away... More it seemed like she used her matter powers to change Sprite's physical body from a eternal body to a human body. The reality is, it could go either way and it's totally up to their discretion for future stories, I think.

If she DID lose her powers, to me it asks the question - Where did her celestial light go? If combining their light enhanced their abilities then, is there a chance Sersi now has more power because she absorbed some from Sprite?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I think it was cut. I mean he mentions the Eternals killing his friends/family and wanting to get revenge. Fair enough, but I thought the twist of them being the first experiments was cool. I was expecting him to join the other Eternals into fighting Ikaris but he gets there and starts fighting them lol.

I had assumed the deviants would team up with the eternals, defeat Ikaris and Tiamut then you can have him give the monologue about his friends/family being killed. Then go from there. Otherwise? He sucked. I even forgot he was in the film.

I dunno, I feel like he served exactly the purpose he was supposed to... A false main antagonist. But to me, that didn't make his presence weak.

I don't know if others felt the same way, but the narrative stakes COMPLETELY changed the moment Sersi found out the truth about their mission. The Celestials themselves became almost like a villain (but not quite?)

I think Zhao has very purposefully crafted a story that doesn't have black and white villains, good guys vs bad guys. It starts out seeming that way, but ultimately, it just comes down to individuals with their own belief system.

• Ikaris believes in the Celestial mission and their role in the universe... And he's willing to kill for it.
• Kingo also believes in the mission... but he's NOT willing to kill for it.
• Celestials are impartial (which you can kind of respect but their indifference is also terrifying)
• Kro wants revenge on the Eternals for killing his kind - Family, loved ones etc
  Thena wants revenge on Kro for killing her loved one.

The one thing I will say about Kro is they could've given him a final line of dialogue to Thena, something to have her realise that they're essentially both driven by the same creed in life - "When you love something, you protect it". That could've hit home... But then, I was thinking it during that whole scene so leaving it unsaid still works too.

 

[samsnee]

I love how Kro just shows up show up in the final battle like and everyone's fighting Ikaris... This scene came to mind for some reason lmao

Still the MCU's worst villain.

He barely qualified as a villain. The title of worst still goes to Malekith or Karli

 

[TheVileOne]

I dunno, I feel like he served exactly the purpose he was supposed to... A false main antagonist. But to me, that didn't make his presence weak.

I don't know if others felt the same way, but the narrative stakes COMPLETELY changed the moment Sersi found out the truth about their mission. The Celestials themselves became almost like a villain (but not quite?)

I think Zhao has very purposefully crafted a story that doesn't have black and white villains, good guys vs bad guys. It starts out seeming that way, but ultimately, it just comes down to individuals with their own belief system.

• Ikaris believes in the Celestial mission and their role in the universe... And he's willing to kill for it.
• Kingo also believes in the mission... but he's NOT willing to kill for it.
• Celestials are impartial (which you can kind of respect but their indifference is also terrifying)
• Kro wants revenge on the Eternals for killing his kind - Family, loved ones etc
  Thena wants revenge on Kro for killing her loved one.

The one thing I will say about Kro is they could've given him a final line of dialogue to Thena, something to have her realise that they're essentially both driven by the same creed in life - "When you love something, you protect it". That could've hit home... But then, I was thinking it during that whole scene so leaving it unsaid still works too.

Except by the third act, he's a total afterthought.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In regards to Kro, like someone else said, he is more or less a swerve. Not that he isn't a villain, but the movie wants you to think he will be the main one, but really it is Arishem/Ikaris. So Kro not being the best villain didn't bother me. I thought it was executed fine. Given where the real priority lies. You have to pick your battles. In the end, the development of the other characters and the actual villains took priority.

 

[TheVileOne]

In regards to Kro, like someone else said, he is more or less a swerve. Not that he isn't a villain, but the movie wants you to think he will be the main one, but really it is Arishem/Ikaris. So Kro not being the best villain didn't bother me. I thought it was executed fine. Given where the real priority lies. You have to pick your battles. In the end, the development of the other characters and the actual villains took priority.

He's a bait and switch, and it's something that Marvel is relying on far too much for their antagonists.

 

[Spider-Fan]

He's a bait and switch, and it's something that Marvel is relying on far too much for their antagonists.

Matter of opinion. I only really care if it works in the movie itself. Mileage will vary for everyone, but for me....it worked

 

[TheVileOne]

Matter of opinion. I only really care if it works in the movie itself. Mileage will vary for everyone, but for me....it worked

Except at the end there's no reason for them to continue fighting each other. The Celestials pitted the Deviants and the Eternals against one another for no reason. The Deviants were basically more wronged than any other party. And yet we're rooting for Thena to essentially butcher what could be the last of his kind. A sentient and intelligent creature who was only acting in his own nature beforehand.

The film only addresses this on a superficial level. Little thought is given to the fate of the deviants.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Except at the end there's no reason for them to continue fighting each other. The Celestials pitted the Deviants and the Eternals against one another for no reason. The Deviants were basically more wronged than any other party. And yet we're rooting for Thena to essentially butcher what could be the last of his kind. A sentient and intelligent creature who was only acting in his own nature beforehand.

The film only addresses this on a superficial level. Little thought is given to the fate of the deviants.

I agree the movie doesn't explain Kro's motivation for helping Ikaris in the final battle. But I can rationalize it for myself. I see it as Kro had a lust for vengeance against the Eternals and largely, fighting a Celestial probably seemed like a suicide mission. So he prob wanted his revenge before the inevitable.

Is it explained in the movie clearly? No. Does it bother me? Not really. I am admittedly filling in a gap in my own mind on behalf of the movie, but I also don't care lol

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Except by the third act, he's a total afterthought.

I don't agree at all, he just shifts from assumed main antagonist to a more personal antagonist for Thena. The story doesn't forget him, there are just larger, greater stakes at play. But the way he dies is a really sweet moment of power and personal strength for Thena, as the only moment she's able to come back from the grips of Mahd W'yry without help from anyone else.

It completes her arc neatly and leaves a most likely deliberate uncertain future for the race of deviants (which I'm sure will be explored in due course)

And yet we're rooting for Thena to essentially butcher what could be the last of his kind. A sentient and intelligent creature who was only acting in his own nature beforehand.

Again, this film's finale all comes down to individual beings with their own motives. Your point would hold more water here if Kro was looking for peace, but he's the one hunting Eternals for his own vengeance. He wants to kill them, claim their power, so he can restore the deviants to glory.

I think the film definitely points out the grey morality of the eternals vs deviants, but Kro makes it pretty clear that he's out for vengeance. In this instance, you're only rooting for Thena because she is the one being hunted, just like Gilgamesh was. I'd say they're on equal footing ethically, however we've also seen deviants happily slaughter innocent people as well.

I think there's loads of story potential to explore all that further, and I think Zhao knew what she was doing by raising a lot of those ethical questions, and it feels very intentional to me that they'll be answered and explored further.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I agree the movie doesn't explain Kro's motivation for helping Ikaris in the final battle. But I can rationalize it for myself. I see it as Kro had a lust for vengeance against the Eternals and largely, fighting a Celestial probably seemed like a suicide mission. So he prob wanted his revenge before the inevitable.

Exactly this. I came away from it all seeing Thena and Kro as sort of different sides of the same coin. I posted previously, but that one line we hear from Thena "When you love something, you protect it" can easily apply to Kro fighting to protect the survival of the deviants.

As I said before, maybe calling that out clearer would've helped other people see it, but I connected those dots and kinda like it sometimes when stuff is left unsaid.

EDIT: Additional thought but also, Kro and Thena both have arcs that revolve around ancestral trauma - Kro trying to reckon for the thousands of years of his race being slaughtered, and Thena living with the grief and trauma of her old Eternal memories filtering through.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't agree at all, he just shifts from assumed main antagonist to a more personal antagonist for Thena. The story doesn't forget him, there are just larger, greater stakes at play. But the way he dies is a really sweet moment of power and personal strength for Thena, as the only moment she's able to come back from the grips of Mahd W'yry without help from anyone else.

It completes her arc neatly and leaves a most likely deliberate uncertain future for the race of deviants (which I'm sure will be explored in due course)

All of which seems wrong to me.

Again, this film's finale all comes down to individual beings with their own motives. Your point would hold more water here if Kro was looking for peace, but he's the one hunting Eternals for his own vengeance. He wants to kill them, claim their power, so he can restore the deviants to glory.

Which arguably isn't unjustifiable at that point.

I think the film definitely points out the grey morality of the eternals vs deviants, but Kro makes it pretty clear that he's out for vengeance. In this instance, you're only rooting for Thena because she is the one being hunted, just like Gilgamesh was. I'd say they're on equal footing ethically, however we've also seen deviants happily slaughter innocent people as well.

We actually never saw Deviants slaughter any innocents at all. And they weren't killing anyone happily. They were feral predators. A tiger doesn't kill someone because its evil. It's a wild, feral creature. It's hunting prey. A tiger or a lion isn't evil.

I think there's loads of story potential to explore all that further, and I think Zhao knew what she was doing by raising a lot of those ethical questions, and it feels very intentional to me that they'll be answered and explored further.

The questions are raised superficially but never actually addressed. I consider that weak storytelling and writing.

EDIT: Additional thought but also, Kro and Thena both have arcs that revolve around ancestral trauma - Kro trying to reckon for the thousands of years of his race being slaughtered, and Thena living with the grief and trauma of her old Eternal memories filtering through.

Rather than embracing violence, I would've at least like to have seen Thena and Sersi attempt to reason with Kro and explain that both sides were deceived. Maybe Kro rejects their peace offering and still attempts to fight them anyway. But the fact that Thena slices him to shreds felt wrong, but the movie presents it as just and the only outcome. None of that sits well with me.

And Kro was only a minor annoyance at best in the end.

 

[Mysteryman]

She is now human. It seemed pretty clear to me

Yes. And a human doesn't have the power of an Eternal.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

All of which seems wrong to me.

Well not much anyone can do about that. It made total sense to me.

We actually never saw Deviants slaughter any innocents at all. And they weren't killing anyone happily. They were feral predators. A tiger doesn't kill someone because its evil. It's a wild, feral creature. It's hunting prey. A tiger or a lion isn't evil.

You see a Deviant kill an innocent person within the first 5 mins of the film. And it's about to kill more before the Eternals arrive. You also see many people in Druig's settlement killed and attacked by Deviants. Based on that behaviour, you have to assume they lash out wildly at anyone they believe to be below them in the food chain (which we know is essentially all humans).

The Celestial even confirms as much, that the problem with them evolving was that they became a dominant Apex Predator.

Rather than embracing violence, I would've at least like to have seen Thena and Sersi attempt to reason with Kro and explain that both sides were deceived. Maybe Kro rejects their peace offering and still attempts to fight them anyway. But the fact that Thena slices him to shreds felt wrong, but the movie presents it as just and the only outcome. None of that sits well with me.

I mean sure, if the entire planet wasn't about to explode at literally any minute, sure that could've happened. Just like I'm sure Civil War could have been peacefully and amicably resolved in there weren't pressing narrative considerations urging the characters to prioritise what they saw as a greater threat.

We're splitting hairs at this point but I don't think you can definitely say it's weak storytelling... You just clearly would have preferred the story to go in a different direction. I mean, what you're arguing is you would have liked to see Kro be a fundamentally different character than what we saw, but that doesn't make him a bad or weak character.

Also, it's not weak writing to float ideas and not drive a nail through them. Ambiguous story telling can be excellent.

Could the Deviants have been talked down? Maybe. Would they be peaceful if they weren't under threat? Perhaps... And isn't that a fertile ground to explore in future stories, Deviants trying to find a place for themselves on the earth? Or if we see Eternals going up against all the Celestials, Deviants could make an interesting ally, one that forces the Eternals to face the consequences of thousands and thousands of years killing deviants for simply existing.

There's an excellent interview with Chloe Zhao floating around where she basically says that she specifically wanted people to be conflicted about the rift with Ikaris. She herself seems to fluctuate between who she thinks is write in that whole debate, Ikaris, Sersi, Kingo for avoiding a fight... But she specifically says she wanted to avoid the idea that there are universal moral truths, a side of good or bad for heroes to line up into.

So knowing that was her approach to the conflict in a superhero story, I think I can quite clearly see intent behind what you're dismissing as bad writing. (Which, by the way, as a professional writer, I think is always a very weak criticism when thrown around vaguely without qualification. Bad writing can mean about 100 different things but as a statement on it's own, is entirely subjective and meaningless)

 

[TheVileOne]

Well not much anyone can do about that. It made total sense to me.



You see a Deviant kill an innocent person within the first 5 mins of the film. And it's about to kill more before the Eternals arrive. You also see many people in Druig's settlement killed and attacked by Deviants. Based on that behaviour, you have to assume they lash out wildly at anyone they believe to be below them in the food chain (which we know is essentially all humans).

Yes because they are feral, wild creatures doing what they were bred and programmed to do by the Celestials.

The Celestial even confirms as much, that the problem with them evolving was that they became a dominant Apex Predator.

Exactly, and Apex Predators hunt prey. They are doing what's in their nature to do. They aren't doing it happily. They are predators.

I mean sure, if the entire planet wasn't about to explode at literally any minute, sure that could've happened. Just like I'm sure Civil War could have been peacefully and amicably resolved in there weren't pressing narrative considerations urging the characters to prioritise what they saw as a greater threat.

Exactly.

We're splitting hairs at this point but I don't think you can definitely say it's weak storytelling... You just clearly would have preferred the story to go in a different direction. I mean, what you're arguing is you would have liked to see Kro be a fundamentally different character than what we saw, but that doesn't make him a bad or weak character.

Well the Deviants were not this way in the comics. This is how they presented them. And they were not well developed.

There's an excellent interview with Chloe Zhao floating around where she basically says that she specifically wanted people to be conflicted about the rift with Ikaris. She herself seems to fluctuate between who she thinks is write in that whole debate, Ikaris, Sersi, Kingo for avoiding a fight... But she specifically says she wanted to avoid the idea that there are universal moral truths, a side of good or bad for heroes to line up into.

The problem is I wasn't conflicted about the rift with Ikaris. I found him so tepid I found it hard to even get worked up when he sided with the Celestials.

So knowing that was her approach to the conflict in a superhero story, I think I can quite clearly see intent behind what you're dismissing as bad writing. (Which, by the way, as a professional writer, I think is always a very weak criticism when thrown around vaguely without qualification. Bad writing can mean about 100 different things but as a statement on it's own, is entirely subjective and meaningless)

Oh I see the intent. But I don't think it was strongly executed or directed or writen.

 

[misjuevos]

If you are looking for some more Eternals lore,"The Eternals Secrets from the Marvel Universe". It explains the creation of the Eternals further than the original run by Kirby. It also shows how they became Eternal and the split faction that went to Titan, as well as, the tie into the inhumans. It is a collection of stories from the back portion of What If's. They are not alternate stories like what if's, but the telling of the Eternals that was added to the what if's as a bonus story.

 

[Prison Mike]

I’ve been trying to find the Jack Kirby run of Eternals on comiXology but can’t find it there.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

The problem with Kro is that he’s just a touch *too* interesting.

Eternals isn’t about the conflict between the Eternals and Deviants, and it clearly never had any intention of being that movie. It’s not about the conflict of the Eternals with any exterior group; it’s about the relationships within the group of Eternals sent to Earth. It’s a romantic drama. It’s “Little Eternals”.

The Deviants are strictly a diversion, both within the story and on a meta level for the audience. It’s a superhero film, right? We’re all expecting the good guys to have to fight the Big Bad and his army of mooks because that’s how these thing work, right? Well, surprise! There is no big bad! The whole outcome isn’t going to turn on anyone defeating anyone. It turns on whether Ikaris will choose duty or love. And because it’s a romance, it goes the way it goes.

But the script makes Kro just a touch too interesting. Him getting anti-climactically sliced up at the end shouldn’t matter, because he doesn’t matter. But the script has done too good a job, we’re expecting a bit more, and thus it feels like a missed opportunity. Just my $.02.

 

[Mysteryman]

The problem with Kro is that he’s just a touch *too* interesting.

Eternals isn’t about the conflict between the Eternals and Deviants, and it clearly never had any intention of being that movie. It’s not about the conflict of the Eternals with any exterior group; it’s about the relationships within the group of Eternals sent to Earth. It’s a romantic drama. It’s “Little Eternals”.

The Deviants are strictly a diversion, both within the story and on a meta level for the audience. It’s a superhero film, right? We’re all expecting the good guys to have to fight the Big Bad and his army of mooks because that’s how these thing work, right? Well, surprise! There is no big bad! The whole outcome isn’t going to turn on anyone defeating anyone. It turns on whether Ikaris will choose duty or love. And because it’s a romance, it goes the way it goes.

But the script makes Kro just a touch too interesting. Him getting anti-climactically sliced up at the end shouldn’t matter, because he doesn’t matter. But the script has done too good a job, we’re expecting a bit more, and thus it feels like a missed opportunity. Just my $.02.

Rumor has it that Keanu Reeves almost voiced Kro.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm so glad he didn't. Would've been an absolute waste.

 

[Prison Mike]

Keanu shouldn’t play some throw away character in the MCU. He deserves better.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Maybe best to post this here but the amount of Druig & Makkari themes videos YT is recommending to me now is ridiculous. And just looking at the number of views, this movie definitely did something right.