Ethical Discussion on Cosmetic Surgery

[kainedamo]

For a while I've held the view that there is something... ethically wrong with the whole idea of cosmetic surgery. I want to make this clear from the very start - I don't think it should be banned, or restricted. I do think, wherever possible, it should be discouraged, and alternatives should be brought up.

I'm incredibly liberal on most issues, but I suppose my view on this ain't too liberal. At the end of the day, it should be done to the individual, this is true. But I think, as a society, there is something wrong when so many people turn to cosmetic surgery because they aren't quite perfect. I just watched a documentary on channel 4 (UK channel) that shocked me. I was already set against most cosmetic surgery, but its reached a whole new disturbing level.

You know how some cultures circumcize females? Most sane people agree its completely barbaric not to mention painful.

Well, more and more adult women are going under the knife to fix - their vaginas. Yes, their vaginas. Women who have been mocked by cruel boyfriends for being too 'flappy', or being made to feel insecure about having too big a labia, etc etc. It's playing on their minds so much that they've decided to get their vaginas 'fixed'. Painful procedures, with a painful recovery period. Potential risk of long term effects. Just to change how their vagina looks. I had never heard of this, but apparently it isn't uncommon. One surgeon said he sees 10 to 15 girls about it per month.

The host interviewed a number of girls, and attempted to talk them out of it. She found this therapist, who specifically works with women to talk them out of 'fixing' their vaginas. She talks with the women, she'll have a group of them, and they'll sit around and look at their vaginas. Sounds kind of funny, but the aim is to elevate the girls' confidence about their vaginas. The results are quite good. Surely this is a million times more positive than simply sending girls to the butchers to get chopped up. One girl talked about how she went to her doctor concerned about her 'flaps', and the male doctor laughed at her

Attitudes need to change. I firmly believe that cosmetic surgery does not get to the root of the problem. While some people may genuinely feel their lives have improved after cosmetic surgery, for others there is still feelings of insecurity. As a society, I think attitudes need to change.

Every alternative possible that can boost peoples confidence in their bodies must be put above cosmetic surgery. I think that cosmetic surgery is TOO accepted. There is an ad for this anti-aging facial cream, with a narrator that says "if you're not ready for cosmetic surgery..." If you're not ready??? They make it sound like something so natural, like a checkup by the doctor when you reach a certain age. I fear what kind of society we could become if cosmetic surgery grows in popularity.

 

[Darthphere]

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

 

[Addendum]

If another person wants to waste their money on cosmetic surgery, I don't ****ing care

 

[Prison Mike]

there is nothing wrong with cosmetic surgery. If a woman feels like she has to enhance her boobs, I applaud her.

 

[DDS]

I think it's ridiculous when people think that everyone should have a Pam Anderson or Brad Pit body, but if some really wants surgery and it's safe, then whatever. It's their choice.

 

[adhokk7]

If another person wants to waste their money on cosmetic surgery, I don't ****ing care

Seriously. If it's not costing me money or causing me pain, it's none of my business.

 

[jaguarr]

As long as it's done of their own free will and volition, people have the right to do whatever they want with their own bodies. Like anything, you'll have people that abuse it or take it too far, but again that's their decision to do something with their own body. It affects no one but themselves and if it helps them become who they envision themselves to be and allows them to lead better, fuller, more adjusted lives then all the better. Or maybe they just want big **** and a different nose. Who cares? It's their choice. And, like anything, you'll have a certain amount of people with mental health issues that take things to the extreme as well, but that's something for their family, friends and doctors to address not society at large.

Furthermore, cultures that circumcise females is a completely separate topic about barbaric traditional cultural practices and their place (or lack thereof) in the 21st Century and in no way should be tied to the topic of cosmetic surgery or elective body modification. So, your mentioning of it is misplaced.

jag

 

[kainedamo]

there is nothing wrong with cosmetic surgery. If a woman feels like she has to enhance her boobs, I applaud her.

Yeah, 'cause of views like this I feel like I'm living in Crazy Land. What's applaudable about someone having such a low view of themselves that they're willing to go through painful and potentially dangerous surgery for the sake of their looks? Know who I like? Girls that are like, "I'm sick and tired of female friends *****ing about their weight problems all the time - I love my body". It's a much healthier attitude. In my opinion.

Ultimately, its up to the individual. Maybe they wanna further their career, I dunno. But applaudable? That's totally laughable. You don't applaud insecurity.

 

[JLBats]

I've always just kinda thought it was fool's errand to try and tweak nature. Yeah, you don't like your bigass nose, but it probably fits your face better than the tiny perfect one you're trying to replace it with.

I've always thought people who get plastic surgery sorta look like you jammed a jigsaw puzzle piece in the wrong place. In fact, you jammed it into the middle of the wrong puzzle. Sure, that one feature may look better, but now your body as a whole just looks right ****ed out.

 

[jaguarr]

Ultimately, its up to the individual. Maybe they wanna further their career, I dunno. But applaudable? That's totally laughable. You don't applaud insecurity.

Do you NOT applaud people who take steps to try and resolve their self-esteem issues, then? Just because you don't agree with their approach or methods doesn't mean they are invalid.

jag

 

[kainedamo]

As long as it's done of their own free will and volition, people have the right to do whatever they want with their own bodies. Like anything, you'll have people that abuse it or take it too far, but again that's their decision to do something with their own body. It affects no one but themselves and if it helps them become who they envision themselves to be and allows them to lead better, fuller, more adjusted lives then all the better. Or maybe they just want big **** and a different nose. Who cares? It's their choice. And, like anything, you'll have a certain amount of people with mental health issues that take things to the extreme as well, but that's something for their family, friends and doctors to address not society at large.

I agree that it is ultimately up to the individual. I just feel as a society we have some unhealthy views about looks. I think there is more that can be done to boost young women's confidence about themselves before they should consider surgery.

Think of it this way. Young girls are impressionable, most anorexics are female. Anorexics often use the images of skinny celebrities as their goal. What does it do to the mind of a young girl to see many celebrities resort to cosmetic surgery?

Furthermore, cultures that circumcise females is a completely separate topic about barbaric traditional cultural practices and their place (or lack thereof) in the 21st Century and in no way should be tied to the topic of cosmetic surgery or elective body modification. So, your mentioning of it is misplaced.

It's relevant, because its now possible for females to go get their labia cut down a little, or their flaps tucked in or removed. They can even have their hymen restored.

 

[redmarvel]

While I agree some people take it too far, that choice is up to them.

I think the option should always be there for folks who need to do something to even make themselves look normal, never mind fantastic.

I'm lucky, I got born with good looks. When I see a kid with a cleft palate I understand the need for plastic surgery.

Spoiler

Who knows, maybe one of these days I'll get a breast reduction to help my back

 

[kainedamo]

Do you NOT applaud people who take steps to try and resolve their self-esteem issues, then? Just because you don't agree with their approach or methods doesn't mean they are invalid.

I think it should be the last solution.

I was watching a seperate documentary a while ago, with the BBC's Louis Theroux. He interviewed cosmetic surgeons and people that get plastic surgery and so on. Louis was quite skinny, but ever so slightly pot bellied. He decided to get a tummy tuck. Louis was talking to the surgeon and Louis told him he was sure he could get the same results if he had just took a few months or more with a trainer to get in shape. The surgeon disagreed. It disturbs me that the doctor would say this. I mean, not only because he's clearly wrong, but because he's supposed to be advising people that come through his door on how best to go about taking measures to sort out their needs.

 

[Darthphere]

Well at least you didn't make a youtube video this time.

 

[kainedamo]

Maybe I will!!

Continuing on the anorexia correlation.

Do you guys think it is possible that young girls just coming into puberty or around 15 or 16, look at other girls and similar to how anorexic girls look at skinny girls, they look at celebrities and they're like "my boobs are so tiny, she's so perfect, as soon as I'm old enough I'm gonna get surgery". That disturbs me. And it disturbs me that it doesn't disturb more people.

And in the documentary about the girls getting vagina surgery. These girls had let cruel insults from boyfriends get to their heads.

 

[jaguarr]

I agree that it is ultimately up to the individual. I just feel as a society we have some unhealthy views about looks. I think there is more that can be done to boost young women's confidence about themselves before they should consider surgery.

Think of it this way. Young girls are impressionable, most anorexics are female. Anorexics often use the images of skinny celebrities as their goal. What does it do to the mind of a young girl to see many celebrities resort to cosmetic surgery?

You...are aware that it's not just women and young girls seeking cosmetic surgery, aren't you? And, most of the people I know who have gotten some sort of procedure didn't do it because of some unhealthy view about beauty. They wanted bigger boobs because the genuinely think bigger boobs are sexy and they were flat chested. They had a big bump on their nose that they didn't like. They needed breast reduction surgery because they were developing back problems. They had serious chemical peel work done to improve their complexion, which was marred by horrible acne as a teen. Those things genuinely helped them feel better about themselves and/or improved their health and quality of life. All your concerns about the shallowness of society and it's regards towards beauty are nothing new at all. Since man was able to do cave drawings and make face paint out of ash, beauty has been something that has been a constant in cultural standards. It has evolved differently according to cultures and eras, but it's a facet of society. Always has been, always will be. So, your angst over the topic about something that really doesn't affect you is ultimately an exercise in futility.

It's relevant, because its now possible for females to go get their labia cut down a little, or their flaps tucked in or removed. They can even have their hymen restored.

No, it is NOT relevant. The women you just described all have those things done ELECTIVELY. They have a CHOICE in the matter. Comparing them to cultural practices in which females do NOT have a choice at all in the matter whatsoever and are forced to have these things done to them is misguided at best.

So, tell me Kaine. How do you feel about tattoos and piercings, since we're on the topic of body modification?

jag

 

[jaguarr]

I think it should be the last solution.

I was watching a seperate documentary a while ago, with the BBC's Louis Theroux. He interviewed cosmetic surgeons and people that get plastic surgery and so on. Louis was quite skinny, but ever so slightly pot bellied. He decided to get a tummy tuck. Louis was talking to the surgeon and Louis told him he was sure he could get the same results if he had just took a few months or more with a trainer to get in shape. The surgeon disagreed. It disturbs me that the doctor would say this. I mean, not only because he's clearly wrong, but because he's supposed to be advising people that come through his door on how best to go about taking measures to sort out their needs.

So your solution for people who, for example have a horribly big and misshapen nose that they truly, truly dislike is to just "get over it and accept it"? Don't pursue a career in counseling.

jag

 

[adhokk7]

Well at least you didn't make a youtube video this time.

Maybe I will!!

I totally think you should.

 

[kainedamo]

So your solution for people who, for example have a horribly big and misshapen nose that they truly, truly dislike is to just "get over it and accept it"? Don't pursue a career in counseling.

Not necassarily. What's wrong with trying to help a person be happy with the way they are? I think that's very healthy. If after a lengthy discussion with a doctor, and encouragement from the doctor to see someone appropriate about boosting self image and confidence, if the person still wants surgery - fine.

 

[jaguarr]

Not necassarily. What's wrong with trying to help a person be happy with the way they are? I think that's very healthy. If after a lengthy discussion with a doctor, and encouragement from the doctor to see someone appropriate about boosting self image and confidence, if the person still wants surgery - fine.

Um, that IS telling people "get over it and just accept that as who you are". Period.

jag

 

[kainedamo]

Okay jag, answer me a question.

Say there is a woman between 18 to 21. After a rough argument with her boyfriend, her boyfriend calls her flat chested, makes fun of her boobs in some way. This plays on her mind for some months, she considers surgery. Do you REALLY think thats healthy?

That was exactly what was happening in the documentary I was watching tonight. Idiots were telling these girls how ugly their vaginas were and it upset them so much they got surgery.

The host talked one girl out of it after she took her to a counsellor who had women talk over **** and show each other their bits. Arguably this could be a healthier solution.

 

[jaguarr]

Okay jag, answer me a question.

Say there is a woman between 18 to 21. After a rough argument with her boyfriend, her boyfriend calls her flat chested, makes fun of her boobs in some way. This plays on her mind for some months, she considers surgery. Do you REALLY think thats healthy?

That was exactly what was happening in the documentary I was watching tonight. Idiots were telling these girls how ugly their vaginas were and it upset them so much they got surgery.

The host talked one girl out of it after she took her to a counsellor who had women talk over **** and show each other their bits. Arguably this could be a healthier solution.

You're talking about dysfunctional people in dysfunctional relationships who have so little going on in their dysfunctional lives that they have nothing better to do than to go on television talk shows and talk about their dysfunctionality. They are not representative of the vast majority of people who do get plastic surgery or some sort of body modification. Like I said, you will have people who do things for the wrong reasons in anything whether it be buying a house or choosing a career or getting a boob job. Most reputable surgeons do a lot of counseling and discussion with prospective clients to ensure their heads are in the right place about their decision and they're really, truly wanting it done without some sort of severe esteem or mental health issue being involved.

Society is rife with people who are unhealthy, unstable, sick, and motivated by questionable ideals. It is not your or anyone elses job to save them from themselves.

jag

 

[knowsbleed]

Freedom of choice is a good thing. Is plastic surgery always practical? No. But if it helps a person boost their self esteem then you really have no right to deem what they feel is one more step toward their happiness as something wrong.

What's with the strong feelings against it though? Bad personal experience? I'm sure you'll be able to save enough money someday for that chesticle implant surgery you desire.

 

[The Senator]

People can spend their money however they see fit, as far as I'm concerned. Society should not be able to tell someone that he or she cannot get plastic surgery simply because it, as a whole, disagrees with the procedures. I am personally opposed to certain cosmetic surgeries, and even though there are things I sometimes don't like about my personal appearance I have no intention of going out and getting a "tummy tuck" or "nose job." However, that doesn't mean that other people cannot go out and get these procedures done if they want to. It is their money, their body, their happiness at stake-- it is their call and their call only.

 

[jaguarr]

What's with the strong feelings against it though? Bad personal experience? I'm sure you'll be able to save enough money someday for that chesticle implant surgery you desire.

It's just another case of someone being more concerned about the goings on of others and the things they do that have no effect on them whatsoever instead of focusing on their own lives and working on their own issues. In essence, it's a distraction and an excuse for Kaine to not work on Kaine.

jag