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Discussion in 'SHH Community Forum' started by noobking, Apr 18, 2006.
Why don't you start a poll and find out?
Uh, maybe later!
I could start one for you if you're too busy.
You are too kind Sir, but nah, I don't want to trouble you. I'll get around to it...later.
No, really, it's absolutely no trouble. I'll go get it started for you.
Ok, I concede. I know I'm not the coolest poster on the Hype.
But probably in the top 10. Top 20?, 30? Definitely in the Top 500!
I agree with you!
Uh, thanks. I think.
You're in the top 100 without a doubt. Today, anyway.
You really should have paid attention to the thread for your creditable source.
Oh don't get so upset, your making me want to cry out loud. I am touched that you have remembered me. We at Faithfreedom have missed you, you really should drop by somtime and say high we were geting worried.
Actually I really don't post anything at Faithfreedom. I ocasianly read posts.
By the way I have no game. My claims that Islam is violent and false is proven by the Qu'ran. I've read the Qu'ran in english and my mother tongue Turkish and have both times came up with the same conclusion. It will just be futile if I just start to quotes and provide links to back my claim.
That's a sleazy attempt at proving your point.
Firstly, Iraq prior to the 2nd gulf war was as secular as they get. Women in high leg skirts were not uncommon. So that little fact was actually wrong. Secondly, corrupt dictators are not really known for their fairness and equality. All the governments that you listed, save for Iran (which is debatable), were forced upon the people and were actually put in power by western powers. Actually, who supported the Aytollahs against the Shah of Iran in the 70's? Hint: U.S...of...?
About Muhammad and Aiesha, many sources put her at the ages between 15 and 18 of her marriage, and this site gives the proof.
Moreover, most other sources state 12-14, and an even smaller minority state that she was nine based on a loosely translated sentence that Aiesha made herself. If, for arguments sake she was 9 the marriage was totally acceptable at that time, all over the WORLD, and even his enemies that wanted to kill him, and the Islamic faith more than anything did not resist or protest the marriage. Aiesias parents were the ones who married her to the Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. Also, had the prophet refused there would have been a very real chance that the Islam would have fallen apart because it would have lead to a strife within the community.
Also, People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia and throughout the rest of the world. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar. You are condemning a man that lived 1400 years ago by todays standards, removing all historical contexts. http://answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm
Go ahead and start quoting some person's interpretation of the Qur'an taken out of context. It won't be the first time that Hype poster's have done this and we will be happy to refute your claims.
Actually more than happy!
9 YEARS OLD! That is abuse. That is child molestation. How could a grown man even be physically attracted to a child? pregnancy in the rare case that it would be possible would most likely be lethal to a kid that age. NOt to mention how come the girl has to be young? why not an older women with a younger male?
Christains used to oppress women, and muslims still do. Thus my centuries behind argument.
and social progress isn't completely decided by how religous a person is. I have debated conservative atheists many times. most atheists are liberal but a small number are conservative.
In TODYA'S world christains are presently socially advanced over muslims. That might not always be the case, but it is for right now. To say differently would be very ignorant. Hell most muslims in the world probably don't even know what Homo Erectus is. They probably would think it's some kind of gay erection or something.
muslim have caught the fever!
It's happening today in non-Muslim countries. You don't even hear about these types of marriages in the Muslim world, and the fact is that you are using manipulated facts. If you looked at the first site I gave you most estimates age her at at LEAST 15 when she married the prophet. You have 12 year old girls here in the states getting pregnant and birth to children.
Muhammad 1st wife, his great love, was 15 years his senior actually. She proposed to him... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khadijah_bint_Khuwaylid
Do you know anything or is this just a case of slander and demonization on your part?
You haven't stated any facts just misconstrued opinions.
there is a 25% age differnece between 12 and 9 and it's still wrong either way.
I don't think you even know what my opinion is. My opinion is that right now on average Christains are more accepting and tolerant of diverse cultures and lifestyles and creeds than Muslims are. my opinion is not that all muslims are bad people nor that all christains are bad people.
You want a fact? In Afghanistan a man was almost killed for being a Christain. Terrorists flew airplanes into buildings under the belief that they would be rewarded with 72 virgin sex slaves in heaven!
another fact? a friend of mine who grew up in the middle east now lives in Ameirca. He hates all forms of religion, and thinks they are dangrous to the survival of the human race. He knows for a fact in the middle east many people prey every day for the end of the world.
What Afghanistan was going to do is wrong and UnIslamic. Consequently, this is the form of Government in Afghanistan that the U.S. helped to establish.
Today it's wrong by your standards, but back then (1500 years ago) it was OK, the NORM and 100% legal and accepted. Secondly, 15-17 years old was the most likely age so quit it with the hate-rhetoric.
And let's put things in perspective shall we: http://answering-christianity.com/age3.htm
Also US law dictates that childeren 14 years or older can marry with their parents consent. http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm
Bat Mitzvah (12-13 years old) were used by agricultural societies to marry off thier childern. There's a reason for this because back then people DIDN'T live the extended lives we live today. http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/cycle/bar_mitzvah.htm
The average death of a person in France in the 1700's was 30-40 years old. Therefore, to have children people married really young. In the US between 1900 and 2000, life expectancy in the United States increased from 51 to 80 for females and from 48 to 74 for males.
Really? I don't see that at all. I see just as many holier-than-thou A-Holes on the Christian side as I do on the Islamic side running their mouths off and saying things that go against the very grain of what they're supposed to believe in. Extremists on both sides have made things much worse than they really should be and neither has any more space to point fingers than the other. They both share responsibility there. The key word in all of that is "extremists", though, who don't really represent the true core of those religions. I can't help but think you may be basing much of your perspective off of what you might know about Islamic extremists, rather than your average, everyday Muslim.
the majority of Afghanistan citizens supported it.
According to the Old Testament and the QURAN anybody who believes in false Gods or prophets or blasphemes shall be put to death. In Iraq the people want a constitution that says no law shall contradict Islamic law.
Jesus said accept and tolerate diverse cultures and lifestyles. But our religous right wing church goers still support a constitutional ammendmant to ban gay marraige. Many very rescently in American's history suppported throwing gays in prison. Texas was doing this as rescent as two years ago.
In the middle east? Most gays would be executed.
I did not say Christianity is a better religion than Islam. The religions are what the followers make it, thus the whole problem with religion. people twist and turn it to justify whatever they want to do. which is why almost every religion on earth only hurts our progress.
My whole point is that today christains, not christianity, are socially more advanced and more politically correct and Liberal than most muslims, not Islam.
And ever prepared.
I've made an extensive post regarding the Prophet's marriage to Ayesha in another thread:
Heh, all this quoting from previous threads has become increasingly frequent for me. Guess there would soon come a time when all I'd have to do is just quote earlier posts instead of composing lengthy posts over and over.
Did happen with the Prophet's first wive, Khadijah who was a widow to begin with. He was somewhere around 25 years old while she was 40. A whole 15 years difference. Another thing worthy of attention is that the Prophet's second marriage wasn't until he was nearly 50 years old.
Now try pondering on this fact - a man who has spent all his youth with a much older women now suddenly decides to marry multiple wives when he is far past his sexual prime?
Each of the Prophet's marriages after his first one were for a reason:
-Some were to strengthen the relationship with his companion in that a few would give him their daughters (Abu Bakr gave his daughter Ayesha, Umar gave his daughter Hafsa) and the Prophet would give them his daughters in marriage (Uthman was married to two of the Prophet's daughters, Ali was given the Prophet's youngest daughter, Fatima, in marriage).
-Some were to have better relations with the tribes of his wives (Juwayria, Safiyya).
-Some were to clear issues about taboo in society that were considered permissible in Islam law under certain conditions (for example, his marriage to Zaynab).
-Most were to support widows whose husbands were persecuted for their religion (Sawdah, Umm-Habiba and the rest).
It's also worth mentioning that save for Ayesha, every single one his wives was a widow.
the ongoing fued between muslims and christians has been going on since before any of us were born, and neither side can be blamed for starting it. The United States is definitely partly to blame for our current foreign relations problems. Decades of trying to boss the middle east around has put us in the middle of this Holy War.
If I were to walk down the streets of the middle east shouting I am an atheist, what would happen to me?
If I did that in America what would happen to me?