EVERYTHING Black Panther

Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by Thread Manager, Jan 31, 2011.

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  1. Thread Manager

    Thread Manager Moderator

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    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]183046[/split]
     
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  2. C-$

    C-$ Well-Known Member

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    Who should play the Black Panther?
     
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  3. Timstuff

    Timstuff Well-Known Member

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    A love story in a movie can work very well if it's done as an important part of the plot that ties directly into the main story. However, some movies merely include it as part of some Joseph Campbell checklist, and chances are the script in those films stinks. I'm not one of those guys who whines whenever a superhero movie has a love interest though-- far from it, in fact. Most superhero movies I've seen do a pretty good job of integrating the love story into the plot, because being a superhero is bound to have a pretty profound impact on the main character's personal relationships.

    An example of a poorly executed love interest was Tony and Pepper in Iron Man 2. Their relationship made sense in the first movie, but in the second movie they just made things way too awkward and we never got a real sense of longing between the two of them. By the time we got to their "big kiss" at the end, it felt more like "huh!?" than "awww..." The way she interacted with Tony in the film wasn't really much different from how someone behaves with a close family member, and the same problem was in Batman Begins with Rachel. The romantic tension just plain wasn't obvious enough, even though the friendship was obvious.

    In most other superhero films that I like, though, it was obvious how the hero felt about his leading lady, and their on-screen relationship worked. In Spider-Man, we knew how Peter felt about Mary Jane right from the start, and throughout his films we felt his emotional need for her that wouldn't be satisfied without her. The same could be said of Bruce Banner in The Incredible Hulk, where we knew that Betty Ross was largely his inspiration for wanting to control Hulk-- he needs Betty, but he can't allow himself to risk hurting her. Heck, even the Transformers movies did a decent job integrating the romantic interest with the plot, even if it might not be the most high-brow of writing.

    To sum up, love stories that work are the ones where we can tell that the leads have a strong bond and a need to be with each other, and this need profoundly affects many of the hero's key choices. If it's merely the hero's respect or friendship for the female lead that influences his choices, or if said choices are of minimal importance to the plot, the love story is going to end up feeling more arbitrary. The reason love stories make it into so many movies is because it's an important part of the human experience, but like any plot element if it's tacked on or poorly executed, it can bring down the movie's effectiveness.
     
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  4. Timstuff

    Timstuff Well-Known Member

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    ^ Wow, out of context, that post is going to look extremely off-topic. :p
     
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  5. terry78

    terry78 I'm gonna need more rope

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    Indeed. :o

    I'm trying to think of a comic film that had no love interest or even potential one, and for the life of me, can't seem to find any. They shouldn't have to shoehorn one in here, but on the flip side I don't want old boy to come off as some chaste asexual type either. Women should find him attractive.
     
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  6. Timstuff

    Timstuff Well-Known Member

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    The second and third Ninja Turtles movies had pretty much no love interest if I remember correctly...
     
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  7. R_Hythlodeus

    R_Hythlodeus Nerd Supreme

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    as long as they show that T'Challa is not only a skilled fighter but also highly intelligent (on Banner/Stark/Pym level), I'm ok with it.
     
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  8. terry78

    terry78 I'm gonna need more rope

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    Yeah, but they were never going to be out dating unless they found other ninja turtles. April and Casey's subplots were always the romance.
     
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  9. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    Which was barely present in the first one.
     
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  10. Blackman

    Blackman C'mon Son

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    Agreed. Even in the Spiderman films I thought it was handled pretty well in the first 2 except for MJ always getting kidnapped.

    An example of a poorly executed love interest was Tony and Pepper in Iron Man 2. Their relationship made sense in the first movie, but in the second movie they just made things way too awkward and we never got a real sense of longing between the two of them. By the time we got to their "big kiss" at the end, it felt more like "huh!?" than "awww..." The way she interacted with Tony in the film wasn't really much different from how someone behaves with a close family member, and the same problem was in Batman Begins with Rachel. The romantic tension just plain wasn't obvious enough, even though the friendship was obvious.
    Agreed

    In most other superhero films that I like, though, it was obvious how the hero felt about his leading lady, and their on-screen relationship worked. In Spider-Man, we knew how Peter felt about Mary Jane right from the start, and throughout his films we felt his emotional need for her that wouldn't be satisfied without her. The same could be said of Bruce Banner in The Incredible Hulk, where we knew that Betty Ross was largely his inspiration for wanting to control Hulk-- he needs Betty, but he can't allow himself to risk hurting her. Heck, even the Transformers movies did a decent job integrating the romantic interest with the plot, even if it might not be the most high-brow of writing.

    To sum up, love stories that work are the ones where we can tell that the leads have a strong bond and a need to be with each other, and this need profoundly affects many of the hero's key choices. If it's merely the hero's respect or friendship for the female lead that influences his choices, or if said choices are of minimal importance to the plot, the love story is going to end up feeling more arbitrary. The reason love stories make it into so many movies is because it's an important part of the human experience, but like any plot element if it's tacked on or poorly executed, it can bring down the movie's effectiveness.[/QUOTE]

    OVerall I agree with everything you said

    and people using TMNT as an example you also have to remember that they dont really have love interests in the comics or at least not that I remember and the 2nd and 3rd of those films were critically panned and I dont think they hold up to the GA that much today
     
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  11. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    Sometimes the love story subplot feels forced amidst everything else going on.
     
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  12. E-Man

    E-Man Cooler than your daddy.

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    The thing you guys really don't want is Shuri in this movie. Think about it for a second. What has been Shuri's character so far? At first she was just a forced female character that had no personality besides being a young teen who wanted to be Black Panther. When Maberry gave her a personality it was all, "I'm so full of RAGE and ANGER at everybody and I KILL KILL KILL people!"

    The Black Panther mythos lasted for damn near 30 years without her, and all she would do in a movie is be a forced character that is supposed to connect with young teens and kids. Either that or she'll be one of those annoying female warrior caricatures that Hollywood pumps out sometimes. You know the routine. Slow motion gunshots and fight scenes, and then somehow at the end of the movie she's sort of a damsel in distress that needs the help of her big brother. Hopefully they just ignore her existence.
     
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  13. roach

    roach I am the night

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    If I was to do it:
    I would start with Tchalla in an Ivy league school. He is smart but not cocky.
    His father is killed and he is called back to Wakanda to undergo the the trials. After several intense days he triumphs and partakes of the heart shaped herb. He becomes the king and the Black Panther.
    Later he is approached by Ulysess Klaw a representative for Roxxon Energy Corporation who want exclusive rights to the meteor ore found only in Wakanda. Tchalla wants to bring his country into the modern age and agrees to a billion dollar deal that makes Wakanda one of the riches in the world. Everything seems to be going well...until A.I.M. has been attacking sites around the world with superweapons...crafted from wakandan ore. Tchalla confronts Klaw at the mound and a fight breaks out. An accident happens that dematerializes Klaw into sound.
    Tchalla as Black Panther travels to New York to get the rest of the ore from Roxxon.
    During this time Klaw discovers his sonic energy form.....he wants revenge and decides to go after BP.
    Bp infiltrates Roxxon and grabs the ore just as Klaw materializes in front of him.
    Massive battle that destroys most of Roxxon's factory. BP defeats Klaw using his mind instead of his brawn.
    Fury tries to recruit Tchalla into the Avengers Initiative. He turns it down as he has a country to govern but if he needs him to give him a call.

    After credit scene...shadowy figures set up equipment near the rubble of the Roxxon factory....Klaw materializes but is weakened....Baron Strucker steps out of the shadows and hands Klaw his hand weapon thingie..."How would you like to be a Master?" He asks Klaw
     
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  14. terry78

    terry78 I'm gonna need more rope

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    Should Klaw still kill T'Chaka like in the books?
     
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  15. roach

    roach I am the night

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    yeah
     
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  16. E-Man

    E-Man Cooler than your daddy.

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    Definitely. That's a crucial part of T'Challa's history. He's like Joe Chill and the burglar that killed Uncle Ben. Changing it would be wrong.
     
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  17. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    I still don't want an origin story. Let T'Challa be an established Black Panther when we meet him. We can see T'Chaka in flashbacks.
     
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  18. roach

    roach I am the night

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    I think you kind of have to do an origin story...introduce the world to the character...let them see what he went thru to be the BP
     
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  19. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    I'm desperately wanting to avoid it looking like a black Batman. Seeing his father killed to galvanize him into action will send the comparisons flying.
     
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  20. roach

    roach I am the night

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    did Uncle Ben's death get those kind of comparisons???
    I wouldnt have it be the reason he is spurred into action but the reason he gets the mantle of the Black Panther.
     
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  21. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    BP isn't somebody I want to see as a rookie. He's not some urban avenger but the leader of a nation. I want him to already know what he's doing.
     
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  22. Blackman

    Blackman C'mon Son

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    I definitely wanna see him as a rookie. More interesting for me.
     
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  23. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    I disagree.
     
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  24. Blackman

    Blackman C'mon Son

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    thats nice
     
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  25. kedrell

    kedrell Fork&SpoonOperator

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    Ok, if they go that route then we'd be ditching the most clearly defined character arc that heroes have(probably why it's used so much). Without it, what would you suggest in it's place?
     
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