Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - Part 41

[The Infernal]

The Fincher comparison. Did Fincher have only have one film under his belt before Alien 3? Does Fincher's work seem to borrow themes and other aspects from more successful movies? I think Trank thinks too much of himself and isn't particularly talented or original.

 

[Zarex]

I can piece it together. Fox's deadline on this property was almost up. They needed to get this into production. Trank gave them a pitch, people who don't know the property probably heard it and said, "it's a gritty and realistic take, the complete opposite of the older movies, so it will be different (aka better). It will be like Nolan's Batman films!"

I imagine that's basically what it was, take the Nolan Batman route with Fantastic Four, which fans and critics loved. It will work.

Also, Trank had proven he could make a profitable low-budget superhero flick with his first Chronicle film. The $100M proposed budget was far lower than any recent Marvel or DC adaptation, especially in comparison to the high priced team up films.

By retelling the origin yet again, the studio could avoid paying for pricey effects. Keeping the action mostly confined to inside, not hiring movie stars -this was designed to be a cheap rights grab from the very beginning. Mission Accomplished!

 

[DawnWarrior]

One big failure isn't enough for me, especially one so rife with studio interference. Trank would need to do a couple more bombs before I can throw him under the bus. If he does, then the comparison could turn to Richard Kelly or perhaps Troy Duffy.

 

[Drz]

And let's not forget this isn't the first FOX movie that the studio cut junks of the story and whatnot, just look at Ridley Scott's movies.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Trank is being compared to Fincher now? Yeesh.

 

[<(o_o)>]

One big failure isn't enough for me, especially one so rife with studio interference. Trank would need to do a couple more bombs before I can throw him under the bus. If he does, then the comparison could turn to Richard Kelly or perhaps Troy Duffy.

That is assuming he ever gets legitimate directing work again of any kind. Fox probably told him "You'll never work in this town again" so he is pretty much screwed. Maybe he should go back to film school & relearn everything over again & get on some medication.

 

[Havok83]

Wow, I didnt even realize this movie was out already. It completely went over my head

 

[Saitou Hajime]

And let's not forget this isn't the first FOX movie that the studio cut junks of the story and whatnot, just look at Ridley Scott's movies.

"But... but... Fox has changed! Tom Rothman was the one poisoning the well and he's gone! Everything's fine now... right?!"

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

"But... but... Fox has changed! Tom Rothman was the one poisoning the well and he's gone! Everything's fine now... right?!"

In fairness, they are more known now for letting directors do their thing, their recent track record of blockbusters is proof of that, sure they messed up big with the new FF, but in terms of other movies, they meddle no more than Marvel do on their movies.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

From what we know, it seems like Fox gave Trank too much freedom until it was too late.

If he was delivering David Fincher type material, the studio would have let him finish, but when they saw the mess he was making, they had no choice but to jump in.

I do think that if they had allowed him to finish his film, it probably would have been a little better, but it still would have been flat and devoid of emotion or intensity and the characters would still suck, the production design still would have been drab and uninteresting, the military presence still would have been laughable etc. etc., but there might have been more action toward the end and the third act might have made more sense.

It also probably would have cost $160 million and would still be losing money because it still would have been a bad film that would have gotten panned by critics and not interested movie-goers . . . but it would have had a little more action and been a little better.

 

[Dark Raven]

Then Trank would have no tweet to hide behind saying that the studio ruined his fantastic film, unless he's likely to do that anyway whenever he gets scathing reviews and wishes to disavow his film.

 

[Brian Braddock]

From what we know, it seems like Fox gave Trank too much freedom until it was too late.

If he was delivering David Fincher type material, the studio would have let him finish, but when they saw the mess he was making, they had no choice but to jump in.

I do think that if they had allowed him to finish his film, it probably would have been a little better, but it still would have been flat and devoid of emotion or intensity and the characters would still suck, the production design still would have been drab and uninteresting, the military presence still would have been laughable etc. etc., but there might have been more action toward the end and the third act might have made more sense.

It also probably would have cost $160 million and would still be losing money because it still would have been a bad film that would have gotten panned by critics and not interested movie-goers . . . but it would have had a little more action and been a little better.

Absolutely this.

 

[Flint Marko]

I still think that Trank's cut would have been more interesting. "Better"? Who knows. But it would've been more interesting than the scotch-taped ending in the final cut.

In fairness, they are more known now for letting directors do their thing, their recent track record of blockbusters is proof of that, sure they messed up big with the new FF, but in terms of other movies, they meddle no more than Marvel do on their movies.

This is all highly debatable. John Campea recently revealed on movie talk that, after the FF tanked, he spoke with several people who work closely for Fox asking them if they had ever experienced the studio meddling with films. Their exact answer was, "you have no idea". Again, this was last week. I'm sure Fox is doing all they can to publicly change their reputation, but you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
The difference between Marvel and Fox is that Marvel doesn't hire a film maker, agree to a particular vision, begin production, and then drastically change that vision. Edgar Wright may be the only exception to this rule, but they agreed to that particular vision back in 2006, and they at least had the decency to part ways before filming started.

 

[TeeKay]

I still think that Trank's cut would have been more interesting. "Better"? Who knows. But it would've been more interesting than the scotch-taped ending in the final cut.



This is all highly debatable. John Campea recently revealed on movie talk that, after the FF tanked, he spoke with several people who work closely for Fox asking them if they had ever experienced the studio meddling with films. Their exact answer was, "you have no idea". Again, this was last week. I'm sure Fox is doing all they can to publicly change their reputation, but you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
The difference between Marvel and Fox is that Marvel doesn't hire a film maker, agree to a particular vision, begin production, and then drastically change that vision. Edgar Wright may be the only exception to this rule, but they agreed to that particular vision back in 2006, and they at least had the decency to part ways before filming started.

And when they saw that Trank was screwing up. They just said **** it and "buried their heads in the sand". Like wtf? For all the **** people give Marvel, Feige in particular. They step in when they feel they need to. Alan Taylor was an example of this and judging from Terminator Genesys, I believe they had every right to. Say what you want about Feige, but he's never screwed up as bad as Fox did with the FF. Their worst films (IM2, Thor 2) are masterpieces compared to the nonsense that was the FF.

It has been said again and again when marvel hires a director, there are certain ELEMENTS that NEED to be in the film because its a connected universe after all. For example, with the Russo's, Feige told them he wanted Shield gone/dismembered in TWS. That HAD to happen. How they got there was up to the Russo's but Shield falling had to be in the film.

FFINO is barely a film. People were saying "oh Rothman is gone, Fox have improved their ways" and they drop the FF on us. How do you mess up the FF three times in a row? Dear Lawd. From the same studio that gave us X-2 and FC which are consider one of the creme de LA creme of the CBM genre. They literally took a major step backwards.

 

[TeeKay]

Edit.

 

[psylockolussus]

From what we know, it seems like Fox gave Trank too much freedom until it was too late.

If he was delivering David Fincher type material, the studio would have let him finish, but when they saw the mess he was making, they had no choice but to jump in.

I do think that if they had allowed him to finish his film, it probably would have been a little better, but it still would have been flat and devoid of emotion or intensity and the characters would still suck, the production design still would have been drab and uninteresting, the military presence still would have been laughable etc. etc., but there might have been more action toward the end and the third act might have made more sense.

It also probably would have cost $160 million and would still be losing money because it still would have been a bad film that would have gotten panned by critics and not interested movie-goers . . . but it would have had a little more action and been a little better.

I would have preferred if Fox just let Trank do his own thing. Especially now that, it appears that the reshoots didn't really help the film.

 

[Silliminite]

I would have preferred if Fox just let Trank do his own thing. Especially now that, it appears that the reshoots didn't really help the film.

Agreed. Without the reshoots, the film would at least have remained coherent, instead of the jumbled mess we got in the second half of the final cut.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I would have preferred if Fox just let Trank do his own thing. Especially now that, it appears that the reshoots didn't really help the film.

My current belief is it was never the intentions for the reshoots to make the film better, but rather to find a way to wrap the film up without spending the money that would have been required to finish the CGI and other effects on the action scenes.

So I am on the page now that Trank's cut would have been better, but I also think it would have been more expensive. And because I think it was about cutting action and CGI to keep cost down, that means it won't even be possible to ever see Trank's version because the CGI never existed.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Yeah but I think Willie's point was that the film still would have been a bad film. Maybe not as bad but we'll never know - it could have been even worse if reports are to be believed. But regardless it would have cost the studio even more money to produce and it still would have flopped which would have represented an even bigger loss for the studio.

The mistake was hiring Trank to begin with. It was too big of a gig for someone so inexperienced. I said this YEARS ago and it was the first sign to me that Fox would screw it up yet again.

 

[Erzengel]

Then we'd be arguing why didn't Fox intervene at all instead of why didn't they intervene sooner.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah but I think Willie's point was that the film still would have been a bad film. Maybe not as bad but we'll never know - it could have been even worse if reports are to be believed. But regardless it would have cost the studio even more money to produce and it still would have flopped which would have represented an even bigger loss for the studio.

The mistake was hiring Trank to begin with. It was too big of a gig for someone so inexperienced. I said this YEARS ago and it was the first sign to me that Fox would screw it up yet again.

I disagree with that. I don't buy that at all.
There are plenty of examples of inexperienced, smaller movie directors who were able to make blockbusters that were at least profitable.

 

[psylockolussus]

Agreed. Without the reshoots, the film would at least have remained coherent, instead of the jumbled mess we got in the second half of the final cut.

Personally, there were a lot of scenes that I was looking forward from the trailers that didn't end up in the film that made me feel that way. Then seeing the "prototype Fantasticar" in the BTS clip and hearing the things that were shot but didn't end up in the film like Ben having a conversation with Sue earlier in the film, kinda made me frustrated. I really wish Fox just let Trank do his own thing, the CG in the final act would probably have been better too.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I disagree with that.
There are plenty of examples of inexperienced, smaller movie directors who were able to make blockbusters that were at least profitable.

Well this is an example where that didn't happen. So yeah they were wrong.

 

[C. Lee]

Guys....if you can't keep it clean and civil will be infracting you......

 

[MadVillainy]

Well this is an example where that didn't happen. So yeah they were wrong.

I never said they weren't wrong. Look at my post. Im just saying I don't buy that it had to do with experience. Just personality clash and incompetence on FOX's part