Fantastic Four General News & Discussion Thread (TAG SPOILERS)

[TheVileOne]

Even on paper, their 2025 line up doesn't sound interesting especially if we consider the GP's taste in movies.

Captain America without Steve Rogers
Thunderbolts*
Another Fantastic 4 reboot
And at one point, they had a Blade film for 2025 as well too...

They shouldhave put a traditional sequel in the middle of 2025, preferably Doctor Strange 3 or Spider-Man 4, and their line up would have been stronger, commercially speaking.

I hate the possibility of the underperformance of Brave New World and Thunderbolts, hurting the Fantastic 4. Come August, Disney isn't gonna care if its the mighty/Marvel OG Fantastic 4, if the numbers aren't there to sustain a sequel.

They shouldn't have waited this long to have Fantastic Four and X-Men ready to go. They should've been in the pipeline as soon as the ink on the merger cleared. They should've been prepping it even before that.

 

[Venom 1988]

It wouldn't surprise me if there is truth to this. Brave New World is a patchwork, mediocre film. It feels like Kevin Feige lost the plot and doesn't know the greater direction since Endgame. Feels like they are constantly course-correcting and playing catchup like DCEU post Batman v Superman.

Marvel Studios and Kevin Feige were ultimately spoiled by too much success, among other things.

I didn't say otherwise. I'm more so commenting that every post he makes is "Jeff Sneider said..."

 

[TheVileOne]

I didn't say otherwise. I'm more so commenting that every post he makes is "Jeff Sneider said..."

My apologies, when I read it, it came off like sarcasm regarding the rumor. But after the recent piece on the film from Vulture, I'm more likely to believe there is truth to this.

 

[Crimz]

In terms of their first full trailer, I expect that to drop April 4th for "4/4 day"

 

[TheFuture]

They shouldn't have waited this long to have Fantastic Four and X-Men ready to go. They should've been in the pipeline as soon as the ink on the merger cleared. They should've been prepping it even before that.

I can understand the viewpoint of needing to take time and care with 2 properties that alone, are capable of carrying the MCU for another 10-15 years.

Using hindsight, maybe it was for the best that they didn't try to rush them. Perhaps they needed to take the hits that they have taken in phases 4 and 5 in order to regain focus on the A Tier List of characters that they have across these 2 properties.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

They shouldn't have waited this long to have Fantastic Four and X-Men ready to go. They should've been in the pipeline as soon as the ink on the merger cleared. They should've been prepping it even before that.

If anything, I wish they hadn't introduced multiverse variant versions of Reed Richard and Xavier in Doctor Strange 2 if they were just going to be used as canon fodder for Wanda. That was a waste and takes the shine off of their MCU debut a bit.

 

[psylockolussus]

They shouldn't have waited this long to have Fantastic Four and X-Men ready to go. They should've been in the pipeline as soon as the ink on the merger cleared. They should've been prepping it even before that.

X-Men, I can understand. But Fantastic 4 is much easier to introduce especially without using the multiverse.

Post-Endgame, these are the ips/characters they've given a solo film before F4 and X-Men
-Black Widow
-Shang-Chi
-Eternals
-Deadpool
-Sam Wilson
-Thunderbolts

Quite a lot. Others like Daredevil, Moon Knight and She-Hulk were sent to streaming service.

 

[TheVileOne]

I can understand the viewpoint of needing to take time and care with 2 properties that alone, are capable of carrying the MCU for another 10-15 years.

Using hindsight, maybe it was for the best that they didn't try to rush them. Perhaps they needed to take the hits that they have taken in phases 4 and 5 in order to regain focus on the A Tier List of characters that they have across these 2 properties.

I can understand that. At the same time, that type of time and care should be going into all their films, and it feels like it hasn't. Eternals felt like a big misfire. It felt like the type of move Sony was making with the SSU.

But here's more my point. They should've been prepping and thinking about integrating X-Men and Fantastic Four as soon as the merger was done. Like they didn't start having drafts written on X-Men until recently.

 

[psylockolussus]

I can understand that. At the same time, that type of time and care should be going into all their films, and it feels like it hasn't. Eternals felt like a big misfire. It felt like the type of move Sony was making with the SSU.

But here's more my point. They should've been prepping and thinking about integrating X-Men and Fantastic Four as soon as the merger was done. Like they didn't start having drafts written on X-Men until recently.

In hindsight, Black Widow, Eternals and Brave New World shouldn't happen. Black Widow should have been a phase 3 film. I don't like we have more one-off movies than before, one off movies, no traditional sequels for those movies, well at least a Black Widow 2 and Eternals II. There also should have been a Shang-Chi 2 by now, but we are getting Brave New World/Thunderbolts* instead.

Fantastic 4 and Captain Marvel 2 should have developed/released much earlier. I feel like the so much content from 2021 to 2023 hurted The Marvels a lot. When Fantastic Four underperforms in July/August, it won't be surprising anymore.

 

[lenz]

It should perform much better than most of the films you listed. It's the only film that really matters pre-reboot/remix because it's one of the few franchises I expect them to continue post Secret Wars. It's an iconic property with family at the center. If that can't inspire and bring audiences together, nothing will.

Pure speculation, just from the films you mentioned, none of them are worthy of going forward based on status, reception, or performance

 

[psylockolussus]

It should perform much better than most of the films you listed. It's the only film that really matters pre-reboot/remix because it's one of the few franchises I expect them to continue post Secret Wars. It's an iconic property with family at the center. If that can't inspire and bring audiences together, nothing will.

Pure speculation, just from the films you mentioned, none of them are worthy of going forward based on status, reception, or performance

Well Sam Wilson is not even a new character in the MCU. He's been in the Mcu for ten years now. Its weird how somebody can be a supporting character for so long then get a solo movie after 10 years... Thunderbolts* is just a collection of people we've seen in previous movies/shows, its not even faithful to the Thunderbolts comics. Black Widow solo movie should have come out in 2013 or when the character was still alive, not after they killed her. I liked that Shang-Chi turned out to be successful (like Guardians/Ant-Man) and Eternals were intriguing, but when Endgame came out and we saw all those Marvel heroes, I don't think many people were anticipating for Shang-Chi/Eternals to join the Mcu neXt. People were asking for Fantastic 4, Daredevil and X-Men for obvious reasons. Daredevil is once again sent to streaming, so he's not gonna get the big screen treatment like the others had in the mcu which is too bad. Going back to Shang-Chi, they also haven't used him since his movie came out, so its also another wasted potential. Fantastic 4, we shall see. At this point, I'm only hoping for a good movie. I really can't count on a sequel or a trilogy at the moment.

 

[Crimz]

 

[psylockolussus]

Maybe I should watch it there?

But I want to see it in 4dX as well.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Shang-Chi not having a sequel by now was a HUGE miss on Marvel/Feige's part--a genuine eff-up. No one cares about Thunderbolts. Same for Brave New World--no one was asking for that film either (and I like Sam Wilson, but they could've kept that movie altogether). I feel there are clearly a lot of really bad decisions at work i.e. RDJ coming back as Victor Von Doom--it's a creatively lazy move and I still don't get it. Where is the overarching plan?

The MCU has become like an album with a lot of filler and only a few hits. The Fantastic Four: First Steps will be one of the hits--I am pretty confident about that. But audiences will have to plod through a lot of filler to get there this year and I think that's a waste of the public's goodwill towards the MCU (not to mention needlessly wearing out the CBM genre's overall welcome in theaters).

Feige needs to cut to the chase and focus. Give us the Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The X-Men and the characters that matter like Daredevil and Spider-Man. Stop experimenting with all the RiRi Williams and Agatha's out there. Not everyone deserves their own movie or solo series when you've got such heavy hitters sitting in the bleachers.

 

[donuts]

People didn't exactly ask for Guardians of the Galaxy, either, and look how that turned out.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Kang was their overarching plan and it blew up in their face.

The main problem is, who are the heroes we are supposed to care about when it comes to the Multiverse Saga? Phases 1-3, we had Tony Stark, we had Steve Rogers, we had Thor, we had Peter Parker, we had Natasha. We had the Guardians. We had characters introduced that were beloved by the audiences. So when Thanos came in and wrecked shop, the audience was already super invested in what was going on. That is why the most memorable and biggest moments from Infinity War were Thor coming in to save the day on Wakanda with Stormbreaker, Tony getting stabbed by Thanos on Titan, and half of all of our heroes getting snapped at the end. We cared about the characters and we got to see a bunch of movies with them before Thanos came in. The table was set properly.

What did they do with Kang? They shoved him down our throats. They relied on Jonathan Majors monologuing and him telling us how powerful he is and all the bad **** he did, but did we ever get to see him do anything? Marvel overplayed their hand with Kang. And they did **** all to develop any heroes we were supposed to be invested in.

 

[lenz]

Feige needs to cut to the chase and focus. Give us the Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The X-Men and the characters that matter like Daredevil and Spider-Man. Stop experimenting with the RiRi Williams and Agatha's out there. Not everyone deserves their own movie or solo series when you've got such heavy hitters sitting in the bleachers.

Very much in agreement, although I am liking what I see from Thunderbolts. Still, they aren't going to move the needle.

Also start exploring the darker/horror elements of the Marvel universe. It's a rich corner of the universe extremely neglected by the four-quadrant bots at the studio. I think Daredevil could be a major step in that direction. Whether it's all too late for the MCU the next few years is yet to be determined.

Give a bit more autonomy to talented filmmakers and let them see their vision through. Talent used to be synonymous with "hiring talent" or "attracting talent", whether it be writers, directors, actors, etc. The industry knew it when they saw it and VALUED IT. That should be the main criteria going forward.

 

[donuts]

All characters matter if you know how to tell a good story.

 

[psylockolussus]

Shang-Chi not having a sequel by now was a HUGE miss on Marvel/Feige's part--a genuine eff-up. No one cares about Thunderbolts. Same for Brave New World--no one was asking for that film either (and I like Sam Wilson, but they could've kept that movie altogether). I feel there are clearly a lot of really bad decisions at work i.e. RDJ coming back as Victor Von Doom--it's a creatively lazy move and I still don't get it. Where is the overarching plan?

The MCU has become like an album with a lot of filler and only a few hits. The Fantastic Four: First Steps will be one of the hits--I am pretty confident about that. But audiences will have to plod through a lot of filler to get there this year and I think that's a waste of the public's goodwill towards the MCU (not to mention needlessly wearing out the CBM genre's overall welcome in theaters).

Feige needs to cut to the chase and focus. Give us the Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The X-Men and the characters that matter like Daredevil and Spider-Man. Stop experimenting with all the RiRi Williams and Agatha's out there. Not everyone deserves their own movie or solo series when you've got such heavy hitters sitting in the bleachers.

Yes, Brave New World and Thunderbolts* do feel like filler.

Yes, we've had movies like GOTG, Eternals and Shang-Chi who were pretty obscure in the Marvel lore. But what separates those three to Sam Wilson/Thunderbolts is they aren't composed of supporting characters we've seen in several movies. Brave New World/Thunderbolts feel like Disney+ shows that were upgraded to a movie, because the Fantastic 4, the X-Men, Avengers 5, and the sequels to Shang-Chi/Spider-Man/BP/Strange aren't ready yet. You can add Armor Wars into that filler group, if it ever makes it to big screen.

The only good news is Brave New World didn't perform worse than The Marvels, numbers wise. But its not still clear, for being an underperformer at the box office.

 

[psylockolussus]

All characters matter if you know how to tell a good story.

Not all the characters should get their own movie though. Movies are expensive and they take years to make, especially in Marvel universe, when there are still major characters/IPs who have yet to get their own MCU movie. I know the X-Men, the Fantastic 4, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Blade and the Punisher already got their own movies in the past, but these are more important characters/ips than Thunderbolts/Eternals. The MCU version of the Thunderbolts is not even comic book inspired unlike Guardians/Eternals. I'll give them a pass for Shang-Chi since that was successful but Marvel aren't even making the most out of it success. I also would definitely take another reboot movie, rather than commit to a legacy character movie who is just gonna stay in the shadows of the og title holder.

For TV series, I won't have issue if the likes of Echo, Riri, Agatha and Wonder Man are getting their own, but I do think their existence just deflate the over all interest for Marvel. If the 2025 line up for Marvel line up is just Fantastic 4 and Daredevil in the theaters, I bet there would have been more excitement/anticipation. But no, we have these other projects that are possibly taking off some shine from these more important characters. I almost forgot Daredevil is airing next month because Captain America just came out and the animated Spider-Man series just aired.

 

[psylockolussus]

People didn't exactly ask for Guardians of the Galaxy, either, and look how that turned out.

Guardians was developed in a different time. Disney didn't have the X-Men, the Fantastic 4 and Spider-Man. Iirc, the rights for Daredevil didn't revert to Marvel until 2013 or 2014. Guardians was already filmed at that time.

Also, like Shang-Chi, I'm giving Guardians a pass since it was successful. Guardians movies are also done at this point. Volume 3 would have been out by 2020/2021 if it was for the pandemic/James Gunn tweets. The movies for the X-Men and the Fantastic 4 could have been sooner imo, if they didn't dwelve into these other projects. Back in 2022, I wasn't thrilled when they announced Brave New World, Thunderbolts and several shows for Disney+.

 

[donuts]

They first had to make Guardians of the Galaxy in order for it to be successful...

Like I said, if you've got a story worth telling, ANY character can be important and deserve its own story.

 

[psylockolussus]

They first had to make Guardians of the Galaxy in order for it to be successful...

Like I said, if you've got a story worth telling, ANY character can be important and deserve its own story.

The point was in 2014, an obscure IP like Guardians weren't prioritized over the Fantastic 4, Spider-Man and the X-Men, simply because Marvel Studios didn't have the rights for those three.

Things are different now. Fox was sold to Disney since 2019 and Disney got a deal with Sony over Spider-Man in 2015. The Fantastic 4 MCU reboot was also announced first before Brave New World/Thunderbolts* yet the Fantastic 4 is coming out last. I've seen Brave New World, I didn't think it was a story worth telling especially for a Captain America movie, and here we are - the reviews are bad, one of the worst for the Mcu.

I also don't agree with this "if you've got story worth telling, ANY character can be important and deserve its own story." I'm sure a lot of writers/producers who are pitching their script to these studios, says the same thing in order to book the deal. But the movie making business isn't that simple. Is it a story people want to see in the movies? I watched the trailer for Thunderbolts*, I can't feel any excitement to it. I agree with what Lightning Strikes said. I still want Thunderbolts and Brave New World to do well, as I don't want them to affect F4's chances at the box office few months from now.

 

[donuts]

The point was in 2014, an obscure IP like Guardians weren't prioritized over the Fantastic 4, Spider-Man and the X-Men, simply because Marvel Studios didn't have the rights for those three.

Things are different now. Fox was sold to Disney since 2019 and Disney got a deal with Sony over Spider-Man in 2015. The Fantastic 4 MCU reboot was also announced first before Brave New World/Thunderbolts* yet the Fantastic 4 is coming out last. I've seen Brave New World, I didn't think it was a story worth telling especially for a Captain America movie, and here we are - the reviews are bad, one of the worst for the Mcu.

I also don't agree with this "if you've got story worth telling, ANY character can be important and deserve its own story." I'm sure a lot of writers/producers who are pitching their script to these studios, says the same thing in order to book the deal. But the movie making business isn't that simple. Is it a story people want to see in the movies? I watched the trailer for Thunderbolts*, I can't feel any excitement to it. I agree with what Lightning Strikes said. I still want Thunderbolts and Brave New World to do well, as I don't want them to affect F4's chances at the box office few months from now.

Your perspective is quite depressing and close minded.

The fact that you don't care about Thunderbolts* doesn't invalidate its potential as a movie. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't have made it. Or Guardians of the Galaxy. Or Deadpool. Or whatever movie / series about a character that isn't Spider-Man, Hulk, The Fantastic Four or the X-Men.

 

[Mysteryman]

Kang was their overarching plan and it blew up in their face.

The main problem is, who are the heroes we are supposed to care about when it comes to the Multiverse Saga? Phases 1-3, we had Tony Stark, we had Steve Rogers, we had Thor, we had Peter Parker, we had Natasha. We had the Guardians. We had characters introduced that were beloved by the audiences. So when Thanos came in and wrecked shop, the audience was already super invested in what was going on. That is why the most memorable and biggest moments from Infinity War were Thor coming in to save the day on Wakanda with Stormbreaker, Tony getting stabbed by Thanos on Titan, and half of all of our heroes getting snapped at the end. We cared about the characters and we got to see a bunch of movies with them before Thanos came in. The table was set properly.

What did they do with Kang? They shoved him down our throats. They relied on Jonathan Majors monologuing and him telling us how powerful he is and all the bad **** he did, but did we ever get to see him do anything? Marvel overplayed their hand with Kang. And they did **** all to develop any heroes we were supposed to be invested in.

And, if you wanted Kang to matter, why introduce him with a defeat by, Ant Man?