Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 6

[Endeavor]

That poll means nothing.

How so? It's a reflection of viewing audience opinion.

 

[JP]

It's a reflection of a fraction of nerds on the Internet.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

It's a reflection of a fraction of nerds on the Internet.

Damn. You are so wise.

 

[MadVillainy]

IM not trying to start a huge fight, but I actually have a serious question.
Would people care that much if they made black characters white? For instance if in the future War MAchine/Rhodey, Falcon, Luke Cage, etc. were turned white would the people who don't mind race changing be against it.

Because usually I dont mind race changes (Im not a fan of the Johnny Storm one though), but idk I admit that if one of those characters were changed white that I wouldnt like that.

Again not trying to start a fight, I just want to know other's opinions

 

[spideyboy_1111]

It's a reflection of a fraction of nerds on the Internet.

actually the forums are "nerd opinions" the main page is far more general public. there's several non-fanboys on my facebook that arn't forum members who actually do visit the front page of the hype and post things about a movie or two... because they like certain movies. And contrary to some delusional beliefs, the Hype really is one of the top movie news sources for the genre.

 

[Kelly]

That's because this rumor of Jordan being cast for Johnny Storm is a stupid, dreadful idea. I'm a man of color and even I think it's a terrible idea.

Well, lets back up for just a second...


Let's take Jessica Alba for instance. You were one of my first friends on here, even though I had the SN Albafan you didn't automatically place me in a category of fans, nor did I automatically call you a "weird fanboy purist who was simply against Latinos....BECAUSE I knew that truly wasn't where you were coming from)...you were EXTREMELY against her casting on here and on IMDB. BUT......you were open minded enough to wait and see how things played out. I for one was extremely shocked at her casting as well, mainly because I thought that there were others that IMO would be better.

So, I understood your thoughts as well, and we talked about it a lot. You ended up moving over to the idea of her playing the part....and was even fine with her performance, even though it wasn't earth shattering good, but we agreed there were far bigger problems with the 2 movies than her portrayal of Sue.

I understand that the fans of this young man are excited about his possible casting, but we all have to step back for a second, take a breather and take the venom out of our posts and realize that really ALL EVERYONE WANTS, is a great F4 movie and build from that....

We have difference of opinions, and that is perfectly ok...it would be pretty boring if we all agreed. BUT....lets all wait, see what happens, we will probably have more info around Comic Con....and IF THIS YOUNG MAN is cast, then we will go with that...if he isn't and someone is cast that is more the "visual" of Johnny (for lack of a better term) and is the favorite of others, then so be it.

But you remember those days LS, and a lot will happen in the coming months.

I think we all need to sit back relax, and realize we all just want an awesome movie and the only way we are going to know for sure that that is what we got is when the movie comes out and we go and see it for ourselves. My hope above all else is that we get a Johnny that is as good, or better than Chris Evans portrayal.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

actually the forums are "nerd opinions" the main page is far more general public. there's several non-fanboys on my facebook that arn't forum members who actually do visit the front page of the hype and post things about a movie or two... because they like certain movies. And contrary to some delusional beliefs, the Hype really is one of the top movie news sources for the genre.

Even still.

A mass majority of the general audience? Don't visit the Hype. Don't check news for movies regularly.

And most don't give a damn who gets the role as long as the movie is good.

And the ones that do? They aren't looking over to vote on that poll.

So like JP said it's a reflection of a group of nerds on the internet.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

IM not trying to start a huge fight, but I actually have a serious question.
Would people care that much if they made black characters white? For instance if in the future War MAchine/Rhodey, Falcon, Luke Cage, etc. were turned white would the people who don't mind race changing be against it.

Because usually I dont mind race changes (Im not a fan of the Johnny Storm one though), but idk I admit that if one of those characters were changed white that I wouldnt like that.

Again not trying to start a fight, I just want to know other's opinions

i'd be just as pissed of personally.

I'm only for color blind casting when it's a lesser or non-iconic character. Or when it really does make more sense for a race swap. Kingpin worked, Hemidal worked, fury worked because it was ultimate fury (who was based on SLJ anyway) and the jury is still out for me with electro.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Even still.

A mass majority of the general audience? Don't visit the Hype. Don't check news for movies regularly.

And most don't give a damn who gets the role as long as the movie is good.

And the ones that do? They aren't looking over to vote on that poll.

So like JP said it's a reflection of a group of nerds on the internet.

and even if you're 100% right about that (Which you're not). The biggest thing this franchise does have going for it.... are the fans and the nerds. The general public does not give jack ____ about this film already.

I can't even tell you how many people have said "o really, they're making another F4 film, why?" no one is interested in this film aside from fanboys and nerds.

if a giant chunk of them are already dreading this film, you've already lost a giant chunk of it's audience (keep in mind these are the same people that DID turn out for F4:RotSS... because the GA sure as hell didn't.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

See this is what I personally don't get.

Why is it okay if you're putting the minority actor in a tiny minuscule role?

But give them a big role? And it's bad. Who cares if they fit the role. Whoa back up? It's a bad decision.

Lord knows minority actors have a hard enough time as is getting roles. If some of you were casting agents they'd never rise to stardom at all.

P.S.: Also I'd wager as fans of comics we often are far to close to a character and over estimate who is ''iconic" as a character and who isn't as well.

Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, Captain America, even Iron Man now? Sure.

Human Torch? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh. Not too much outside of our circle.

 

[Kelly]

And that is your opinion, others have a different opinion. It's not fact, its opinion... Nothing wrong with that, until other personal jabs come into play. As long as it is just opinions being given on both parts, then all is good.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

and even if you're 100% right about that (Which you're not). The biggest thing this franchise does have going for it.... are the fans and the nerds. The general public does not give jack ____ about this film already.

And that's because they don't know this movie is being made. Also love how nicely you told me I'm out right wrong. Thanks for respecting opinions and all that.

 

[Kelly]

I think the generalizations are all over the place on this one...from the vast majority. Well would ya look at that, I just did the same thing.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

And with that you have successfully made me done with this whole side of the forum.

Congrats Kelly. You're a class act. Truly.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

See this is what I personally don't get.

Why is it okay if you're putting the minority actor in a tiny minuscule role?

But give them a big role? And it's bad. Who cares if they fit the role. Whoa back up? It's a bad decision.

Lord knows minority actors have a hard enough time as is getting roles. If some of you were casting agents they'd never rise to stardom at all.

P.S.: Also I'd wager as fans of comics we often are far to close to a character and over estimate who is ''iconic" as a character and who isn't as well.

Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, Captain America, even Iron Man now? Sure.

Human Torch? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh. Not too much outside of our circle.

1) you're simplifying it too much, for me it's got nothing to do with minority roles (the same for me goes with casting a minor black character as a white character) if it's small and not an iconic role, than it matters much less to the physical appearance of the character (race, haircolor, physical build etc)

2) this whole discussion is skewed ridiculous to the way people want to see it. People want to label everything as racist because that's the way the choose to view it. Majority of us are just purists. it has nothing to do with race. We want the iconic characters to still look like the iconic character we are familiar with. Otherwise it seems like change for the sake of change. As Kelly hinted previously, it's incredibly unbelievable that there's not an actor our their that actually looks the part (and is better suited for the part) acts the part, and is all around a better pick for Johnny... being a friend of a director and "because the director likes him" doesn't really suddenly justify him for being the perfect choice for the roll.... It's also a complete double standard because i can guarantee you some of you who are OK with this casting choice would be completely pissed off is we were given a Latino superman, or an Asian Ben Grim...

Color blind casting is great, but not when it visually changes the look (and yes often enough it actually does change the feel of the character) of a major character. I don't want a white Ammadaus Cho on film either (and honestly his "asian-ness" really doesn't define his character either... he's just a freakishly smart kid)

3) Hollywood needs to shape up, there's plenty of fantastic minority heroes that SHOULD have movies by now. We don't need to suddenly create white roles for them to play... It's actually just as offensive. "here we don't really think your race has a bankable hero... so we're going to make you play a typically white role."

 

[spideyboy_1111]

And that's because they don't know this movie is being made. Also love how nicely you told me I'm out right wrong. Thanks for respecting opinions and all that.

yup that'd be why when i let them know, they're instantly turned off. which is what i said. Once they know.. they ask "why????"


it's not an "in demand" franchise. that much is obvious


also... please, all i said were the words. you were stating that i was wrong as well..

 

[spideyboy_1111]

And with that you have successfully made me done with this whole side of the forum.

Congrats Kelly. You're a class act. Truly.

oh please. learn to handle when people don't agree with you buddy. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, and i'm glad you came back. But if you can't handle a discussion than a message board isn't really a great place to start. I'm fine with opinions, but you bet i will stand by mine as much as you will stand by yours. It's what makes the hype a great place (and a mess) at times.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

oh please. learn to handle when people don't agree with you buddy. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, and i'm glad you came back. But if you can't handle a discussion than a message board isn't really a great place to start. I'm fine with opinions, but you bet i will stand by mine as much as you will stand by yours. It's what makes the hype a great place (and a mess) at times.

Okay, but when a mod (no an admin no less) makes a post about respecting opinions and then directly ignores someone telling me mine is wrong in favor of making a sassy post at my behest?

That is everything that is wrong with the current state of the Hype and I will not stand by without voicing how I think that is wrong.

 

[Kelly]

Okay, but when a mod (no an admin no less) makes a post about respecting opinions and then directly ignores someone telling me mine is wrong in favor of making a sassy post at my behest?

That is everything that is wrong with the current state of the Hype.

I was just saying that it was a generalization, and everyone seems to be making them with this discussion...IT HAPPENS.

I'm sassy, I can't help it, it just flows out...all over the place. I didn't mean it disrespectful to you, hence the wink. Its just that everyone seems to be throwing out generalizations without thinking or even realizing it, you've done it to, we all have one time or another.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Okay, but when a mod (no an admin no less) makes a post about respecting opinions and then directly ignores someone telling me mine is wrong in favor of making a sassy post at my behest?

That is everything that is wrong with the current state of the Hype.

Bill, we were both telling each other we were wrong... regardless of if you said the exact word "wrong" or not.

All Kelly was saying is that opinions are just that. and subjective.

she wasn't dissing or mocking you. just basically saying you're in the exact same boat and doing the same thing as you claim others are (just on the other side of the coin) if that makes sense?

that's what i took out of it.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Oh, but see I wasn't. I never said you were wrong. You were the only that threw that word around.

I just countered your opinion with my own. I don't come on the Hype to tell people they're wrong. I'm more mature than that.

However an admin should have respectable behavior. I don't think Kelly had respectable behavior there. She basically ignored the very thing she was saying and getting preachy to me about in favor of choosing to be sassy.

That's wrong and I will stand by that.

 

[Kelly]

Oh, but see I wasn't. I never said you were wrong. You were the only that threw that word around.

I just countered your opinion with my own. I don't come on the Hype to tell people they're wrong. I'm more mature than that.

However an admin should have respectable behavior. I don't think Kelly had respectable behavior there. She basically ignored the very thing she was saying and getting preachy to me about in favor of choosing to be sassy.

That's wrong and I will stand by that.

I apologize, I truly did not mean it as a slight to you or your opinion. I was just pointing out that this issue has brought out far reaching generalizations from those that are discussing the issue. If you saw that as a slight, I apologize. It was not meant that way at all...

A tit for tat so to speak...

You made this comment:

A mass majority of the general audience? Don't visit the Hype. Don't check news for movies regularly.

That is a general statement in my opinion (you can disagree that is quite alright)...and he gave a generalization back calling it wrong, as his opinion... That is what I saw, if you disagree with that assessment, ok...

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I apologize, I truly did not mean it as a slight to you or your opinion. I was just pointing out that this issue has brought out far reaching generalizations from those that are discussing the issue. If you saw that as a slight, I apologize. It was not meant that way at all...

If you truly didn't then I too apologize and accept your apology.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Oh, but see I wasn't. I never said you were wrong. You were the only that threw that word around.

I just countered your opinion with my own. I don't come on the Hype to tell people they're wrong. I'm more mature than that.

However an admin should have respectable behavior. I don't think Kelly had respectable behavior there. She basically ignored the very thing she was saying and getting preachy to me about in favor of choosing to be sassy.

That's wrong and I will stand by that.

i still love and care about ya bud (even though we rarely talk), but i really also don't see you acting mature in the way you reacted...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

You made this comment: That is a general statement in my opinion (you can disagree that is quite alright)...and he gave a generalization back calling it wrong, as his opinion... That is what I saw, if you disagree with that assessment, ok...

this is what i saw as well.... he never said "you are wrong" but that's essentially what it meant. Saying it directly, or indirectly is still the same thing.

this is the hype, were it's nothing but "i am right about this, you are wrong about that" discussions. that's what discussions are in simplicity.