FF #537 cover (spoilers?)

IronSpidy said:
Is that why? Well you have a point. What you guys think will happen in #537?

Doom will tell Reed how he managed to return to Earth, to regain his physical body and to wield Thor's hammer, and then he's gonna kick the FF's collective behinds before going on his way.
 
It's probably a doombot that THINKS he's the real Doom.

1) Its happened before

2) It would explain how he is using Mjolnir

Bah they should bring back Andro:o
 
Guyverjay said:
It's probably a doombot that THINKS he's the real Doom.

LOL If that's the case, I'll never pick up another 616 comic book ever again. :rolleyes:
 
What do you think will happen to the 4? Is this the issue two members die?
 
IronSpidy said:
What do you think will happen to the 4? Is this the issue two members die?

No, that's the one-shot "Death In The Family" by Karl Kessel, which ships in May, and has no relation to the current storyline.

And listen, if two members of the FF (two real members) are still "dead" two years from today, I will eat a bug. A big bug. Like the kind on Fear Factor.

I wouldn't let it keep me up at night, IronSpidy.

Quite frankly, I'm amazed that Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacey are still "dead." Bucky's "death" pre-dates theirs by decades, and they just brought him back.
 
So I shouldn't worry about them killing Torch? He is one of my favs in the Marvel universe.
 
What if those two deaths are to happen in the future? Maybe this is some time-travelling peek into what will happen.

Oh, and during Civil War, expect Reed and Sue to split at the very least. At worst, well, what Hank and Jan did way back in the Avengers.
 
Ravin' Ray said:
Oh, and during Civil War, expect Reed and Sue to split at the very least. At worst, well, what Hank and Jan did way back in the Avengers.

Reed is gonna beat up Sue?! :eek:
 
Ravin' Ray said:
..and during Civil War, expect Reed and Sue to split at the very least. At worst, well, what Hank and Jan did way back in the Avengers.

They may end up op on different sides. but Reed striking Sue?
Not bloody likely.

That Avengers storyline forever tainted Hank Pym, no matter what they've done to redeem him. Unless they revealed he had a brain tumor or was under some outside control, or something I'm unaware of.
 
Malus said:
They may end up op on different sides. but Reed striking Sue?
Not bloody likely.

That Avengers storyline forever tainted Hank Pym, no matter what they've done to redeem him. Unless they revealed he had a brain tumor or was under some outside control, or something I'm unaware of.
i hear you
 
I have problems with this idea.

First, and least- Been done. Doom stole the Silver Surfer's powers and board, to similar effect. However that was 40 years ago, so I guess that's forgivable.

But moreover, no way Doom can lift the hammer. He's not worthy. He's a freakin' dictator. The hammer was created to guard against men like him. If he's worthy than everybody is. The concept is inline with Gwen Stacy sleeping with Osborn. Wrong out of the gate, and merely gimmickry.

What might have been a more interesting and believable approach would be Doom using his genius to find another way to harness Mjolnir's power aside from wielding it as Thor does (did?).

Furthermore- While Thor is badass, aside from Mjolnir he had his Asgardian power backing him up (class 100 strength, near limitless stamina and healing ability), and still Thor might not have been able to defeat the assembled FF. Doom doesn't have Thor's power, so the hammer alone wouldn't make him physically superior to the entire team.
 
Dragon said:
But moreover, no way Doom can lift the hammer. He's not worthy. He's a freakin' dictator. The hammer was created to guard against men like him. If he's worthy than everybody is. The concept is inline with Gwen Stacy sleeping with Osborn. Wrong out of the gate, and merely gimmickry.

But didn't the solicits say that Doom was reformed? Wouldn't redemption make him worthy of wielding the hammer?

Just a thought.

--beast
 
thebeast said:
But didn't the solicits say that Doom was reformed? Wouldn't redemption make him worthy of wielding the hammer?

Just a thought.

--beast

Not in the least.

Thor had to spend years performing acts of heroism before he was deemed worthy.

I really want to kick Walt Simonson in the nuts, because he's the one that started the whole "worthiness" crap. Another reason I point to the mid-80's as Marvel's deathknell.

The "If he be worthy' thing came from Thor's first appearance when Don Blake first struck the wooden cane and it transformed into Mjolnir. But Stan Lee years later, when questioned what happened to the original Thor came up with a very clever storyline, essentially explaining that Don Blake was the original Thor, transformed into a crippled doctor by Odin to teach him humility. So the only one truly "worthy" of lifting the hammer was Thor.

But Simonson with the first Beta Ray Bill arc threw in the "If He Be Worthy" loophole, and the hammer been's getting passed around like a blunt ever since.
 
I lifted Thor's hammer once, ends up I was worthy because I helped a little old lady cross the street years ago. No biggie. ;)
 
Dragon said:
Not in the least.

Thor had to spend years performing acts of heroism before he was deemed worthy.

I really want to kick Walt Simonson in the nuts, because he's the one that started the whole "worthiness" crap. Another reason I point to the mid-80's as Marvel's deathknell.

The "If he be worthy' thing came from Thor's first appearance when Don Blake first struck the wooden cane and it transformed into Mjolnir. But Stan Lee years later, when questioned what happened to the original Thor came up with a very clever storyline, essentially explaining that Don Blake was the original Thor, transformed into a crippled doctor by Odin to teach him humility. So the only one truly "worthy" of lifting the hammer was Thor.

But Simonson with the first Beta Ray Bill arc threw in the "If He Be Worthy" loophole, and the hammer been's getting passed around like a blunt ever since.

:up: :up: :up: :up:

Everybody and their brother picking up the hammer is a good part of what caused Thor's descent among the Marvel ranks.

The only person who should be worthy of picking up Thor's hammer is Thor himself.
 
Exactly. It's what made him unique.

And folks accepting Doom lifting the hammer is silly.

Doom is a great character, I love the guy, he's cool as hell, etc. etc.

But he's evil. Despite whatever "nobility" he has, he's EVIL. He does what he does for selfish reasons. There's no explanation or spin-doctoring that can justify his lifting the hammer (He actually did try to lift it back in Thor #183 and failed). If he can lift it, any of the FF can take it from him.

Again, JMS substitutes concept for characterization. He's screwing the FF the way he has Spider-Man.
 
Dragon said:
Despite whatever "nobility" he has, he's EVIL. He does what he does for selfish reasons. There's no explanation or spin-doctoring that can justify his lifting the hammer (He actually did try to lift it back in Thor #183 and failed). If he can lift it, any of the FF can take it from him.
Again, JMS substitutes concept for characterization. He's screwing the FF the way he has Spider-Man.

If JMS allows Doom to legitimately wield Thor's hammer, then he's lost my support. There better be one helluva an explanation.
 
JMAfan said:

Thor's hammer served him as such due to one of the most powerful enchanctments possible- that being the will of his father, Odin. Things have changed over the years, but when Stan Lee was writing the title, he essentially saw Odin as being Marve'ls stand-in for God (Jack Kirby designed him resembling Michelangelo's God).

Anyway.. Doom wouldn't have the kind of power to circumvent that.

And logically, since all of the Asgardians are supposed to be recently deceased, the enchanment should really be gone. Mjolnir might well still be intact, but it would likely merely be a hunk of uru metal, with no special powers. This is evidenced by the fact that Odin had more than once removed Thor's godling powers, rendering Mjolnir no more than a classy paper weight.

The one other LONG SHOT, I can see in the Doom plot is that this is Marvel's round-about way of bringing Thor back. That perhaps Thor's spirit exists within the hammer, so it isn't functioning for Doom as it would for him, but working through Thor somehow?
 
Dragon said:
Thor's hammer served him as such due to one of the most powerful enchanctments possible- that being the will of his father, Odin. Things have changed over the years, but when Stan Lee was writing the title, he essentially saw Odin as being Marve'ls stand-in for God (Jack Kirby designed him resembling Michelangelo's God).

Anyway.. Doom wouldn't have the kind of power to circumvent that.

And logically, since all of the Asgardians are supposed to be recently deceased, the enchanment should really be gone. Mjolnir might well still be intact, but it would likely merely be a hunk of uru metal, with no special powers. This is evidenced by the fact that Odin had more than once removed Thor's godling powers, rendering Mjolnir no more than a classy paper weight.

The one other LONG SHOT, I can see in the Doom plot is that this is Marvel's round-about way of bringing Thor back. That perhaps Thor's spirit exists within the hammer, so it isn't functioning for Doom as it would for him, but working through Thor somehow?

Sounds good to me....I know nothing about Thor, that was just something I thought of when this discussion started...I don't know enough to really participate throughly, its just been an interesting discussion to read....but magic just kept coming up in my mind as people talked about how only Thor could lift the hammer...
 
Dragon said:
Exactly. It's what made him unique.

And folks accepting Doom lifting the hammer is silly.

Doom is a great character, I love the guy, he's cool as hell, etc. etc.

But he's evil. Despite whatever "nobility" he has, he's EVIL. He does what he does for selfish reasons. There's no explanation or spin-doctoring that can justify his lifting the hammer (He actually did try to lift it back in Thor #183 and failed). If he can lift it, any of the FF can take it from him.

Again, JMS substitutes concept for characterization. He's screwing the FF the way he has Spider-Man.

I agree. Doom is my favorite villian of all time, but there's no way in hell he can lift the hammer and Reed Richards can't.
 
I love Doom and since he has been able to take over the Silver Surfer, Galactus, and Beyonder's powers, than if there is a will, then Doom will find a way to possess the hammer of Thor. I see no reason with good writing why Doom won't be able to pick it up. All it takes a good imagination, taking into consideration continuity, and the good artwork that we saw last issue and Doom will outsmart Richards...at last!!!!

Just look at the cover of #537 and tell me that is something the whole Marvel Universe should fear....a Dr. Doom with the power of a god...
 
Malus said:
If JMS allows Doom to legitimately wield Thor's hammer, then he's lost my support. There better be one helluva an explanation.


So long as he doesn't ignore continuity and gives us a great reason, who in there right mind WOULDN'T want to see Doom pick up the hammer, and see the priceless look on Richards face when Doom in his own goes "nah nah nah nah..I picked up the hammer and you didn't."
 
GoblinScrier said:
I love Doom and since he has been able to take over the Silver Surfer, Galactus, and Beyonder's powers, than if there is a will, then Doom will find a way to possess the hammer of Thor. I see no reason with good writing why Doom won't be able to pick it up. All it takes a good imagination, taking into consideration continuity, and the good artwork that we saw last issue and Doom will outsmart Richards...at last!!!!

Just look at the cover of #537 and tell me that is something the whole Marvel Universe should fear....a Dr. Doom with the power of a god...

Or a Doom that thinks he has the power of god...
 

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