"For the Bible Tells Me So"

[Superhobo]

Can the love between two people ever be an abomination? Is the chasm separating gays and lesbians and Christianity too wide to cross? Is the Bible an excuse to hate?

Winner of the Audience Award for Best Documentary at the Seattle International Film Festival, Dan Karslake's provocative, entertaining documentary brilliantly reconciles homosexuality and Biblical scripture, and in the process reveals that Church-sanctioned anti-gay bias is based almost solely upon a significant (and often malicious) misinterpretation of the Bible. As the film notes, most Christians live their lives today without feeling obliged to kill anyone who works on the Sabbath or eats shrimp (as a literal reading of scripture dictates).

Through the experiences of five very normal, very Christian, very American families -- including those of former House Majority Leader Richard Gephardt and Episcopalian Bishop Gene Robinson -- we discover how insightful people of faith handle the realization of having a gay child. Informed by such respected voices as Bishop Desmond Tutu, Harvard's Peter Gomes, Orthodox Rabbi Steve Greenberg and Reverend Jimmy Creech, FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO offers healing, clarity and understanding to anyone caught in the crosshairs of scripture and sexual identity.

http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/indexb.htm


So, has anybody seen it? And, if so, what'd you think of it?

 

[thedeadite]

havn't seen it, but now i want to.

 

[Timstuff]

Ah, Liberals trying to re-interperate the bible for us Christians in order to "fix" us. I love it.

If you read both the old and new testaments, then you'd know that working on the sabbath and eating food are deemed OK in the new testament, but homosexuality is still shamed. I am not going to open up a can of worms here by discussing wether or not homosexuality is right or wrong, but that's not the point. The point is that the bible is not supposed to be a document that changes to reflect the culture. If you have a problem with what's in the bible, then guess what? No-one is going to force you to be a Christian. It's one thing to not want to be a Christian, but it's another thing entirely to tell Christians that we have to change how we read the bible because of cultural pressure.

 

[블라스]

Sounds interesting, I'll watch it.

 

[Abaddon]

Ah, Liberals trying to re-interperate the bible for us Christians in order to "fix" us. I love it.

You can be both liberal and Christian.

If you read both the old and new testaments, then you'd know that working on the sabbath and eating food are deemed OK in the new testament, but homosexuality is still shamed. I am not going to open up a can of worms here by discussing wether or not homosexuality is right or wrong, but that's not the point. The point is that the bible is not supposed to be a document that changes to reflect the culture. If you have a problem with what's in the bible, then guess what? No-one is going to force you to be a Christian. It's one thing to not want to be a Christian, but it's another thing entirely to tell Christians that we have to change how we read the bible because of cultural pressure.

Yes, you go ahead and follow everything it tells you. E-ve-ry-thing.

 

[Timstuff]

I will. And I am not going to make you do the same. Christianity is a personal decision, and I do not believe in forcing people to accept it.

BTW, you can be for government health care, human rights, tax increases etc. and be a Christian just fine. But when you believe that you can ignore what scripture says about how to conduct your life and that its standards are outdated, that is a problem. A conservative interpretation of the bible and applying conservative politics to the bible are not the same thing.

 

[Superhobo]

I will. And I am not going to make you do the same. Christianity is a personal decision, and I do not believe in forcing people to accept it.

BTW, you can be for government health care, human rights, tax increases etc. and be a Christian just fine. But when you believe that you can ignore what scripture says about how to conduct your life and that its standards are outdated, that is a problem. A conservative interpretation of the bible and applying conservative politics to the bible are not the same thing.

Actually, let's examine the mentions of homosexuality in the NT, and just who it is who says it. His name was Paul. He never met Jesus in his lifetime. His writings also said that the world 'would be ending soon,' and that women should be entirely subject to their husbands in church and at home, and should 'dress modestly,' like Muslim women, among other things that are just bat***t insane. You'll excuse me if I don't find him a credible source, really.


Jesus, however, never said a damn thing about homosexuality. Get your facts straight.

 

[hammy]

Jesus always upheld the scriptures. There are a lot of things that he may or may not have said that aren't recorded in the NT, but that doesn't mean he didn't believe or uphold them.

 

[porchmonkey408]

Yeah, I think condemning others for a life-choice is great.

Christians are so awesome for not being able to understand that gays and lesbians and etcetera are just human beings with rights to themselves.

But hey, I guess Hell is a great place for those trying to be themselves.

Yeah, Christians who hate gays and try and force them out of society are such good people. Those who condemn them are such great people. Lets give them all a round of applause.

Not to say there aren't good Christians who accept gays, and believe they are good people and will not suffer forever. I have a good friend who is gay who goes to a church that upholds gay rights, etc.

That being said, I want to see this film.

 

[Superhobo]

Jesus always upheld the scriptures. There are a lot of things that he may or may not have said that aren't recorded in the NT, but that doesn't mean he didn't believe or uphold them.

Yeah. We should TOTALLY stone disobedient children, women who don't scream loud enough when they get raped, people who work on the Sabbeth, and so on.

It's a contradiction, and a horrible example of pick-and-choose.

 

[hammy]

Yeah, I think condemning others for a life-choice is great.

Christians do what they believe their God wants them to do. They aren't making up the rules. That's God's job. They may condemn the sin, but they have no business condemning the sinner. Those that do are operating outside of what God has instructed.

Yeah. We should TOTALLY stone disobedient children, women who don't scream loud enough when they get raped, people who work on the Sabbeth, and so on.

It's a contradiction, and a horrible example of pick-and-choose.

Maybe I'm missing something. You said, "we." I was under the impression you are not a Christian. So what do you care, anyway? It's like a discussion I saw at community where someone was upset that someone implied God didn't care about him, yet he doesn't believe in God anyway, so why would he care?

 

[porchmonkey408]

Christians do what they believe their God wants them to do. They aren't making up the rules. That's God's job. They may condemn the sin, but they have no business condemning the sinner. Those that do are operating outside of what God has instructed.

Okay. But why all the hatred? And don't say it is not commonplace to see rallies or anyone yelling out how "God hates ****," and how they are going to Hell. It happens around where I live, it happens all over, and I live in the California bay area, not even in the South or any of the plain-states where Christianity has been known to breed that behavior.

I refuse to condemn those who are good people, and so on, so forth, but what about those who speak like I just described?

 

[hammy]

They're wrong.

Homosexuality isn't even on God's "top seven most hated sins."

 

[porchmonkey408]

But if a homosexual never apologizes for their lifestyle, what will happen?

 

[hammy]

Are you asking me if they will go to hell?

 

[porchmonkey408]

Yes.

 

[Superhobo]

Christians do what they believe their God wants them to do. They aren't making up the rules. That's God's job. They may condemn the sin, but they have no business condemning the sinner. Those that do are operating outside of what God has instructed.





Maybe I'm missing something. You said, "we." I was under the impression you are not a Christian. So what do you care, anyway? It's like a discussion I saw at community where someone was upset that someone implied God didn't care about him, yet he doesn't believe in God anyway, so why would he care?

We as in the royal 'we.'

I didn't mean it in that way, and you know it, but way to defer from the argument!

Okay, then. YOU should TOTALLY stone disobedient children, women who don't scream loud enough when they get raped, people who work on the Sabbeth, and so on.

 

[hammy]

Well, homosexuality has nothing to do with getting in to or staying out of, heaven. For those who believe in such things, as far as Christianity is concerned, Heaven, Hell and all of that .. the only criteria for entrance to Heaven is a belief in Jesus Christ, that he is who he said he was, the Messiah. That's it. Anyone who tells you differently is changing scripture. You don't have to be baptized, you don't have to be a so called "good person," you don't have to say dozens of prayers every day or go to church every Sunday or .. whatever. The only thing you have to do, is believe in him.

Having said that, the idea is that by believing in him, you have a change inside and you begin to naturally want to be a better person. But Christians aren't perfect .. they are still sinners (the literal translation for the word sin is "to miss the mark." In other words, to be less than perfect.) So Christians, no matter what their intentions, do sin regularly as well. In Christianity, homosexuality is a sin, so homosexuals are sinners too. But I believe a person can be a Christian and be engaged in the sin of homosexuality just as a person can be a Christian and engaged in the sin of gossip, or gluttony or adultery. So yes, if a person is a Christian homosexual, they get to go to heaven.

 

[hammy]

Okay, then. YOU should TOTALLY stone disobedient children, women who don't scream loud enough when they get raped, people who work on the Sabbeth, and so on.

I never said I was a believer.

 

[Timstuff]

Actually, let's examine the mentions of homosexuality in the NT, and just who it is who says it. His name was Paul. He never met Jesus in his lifetime. His writings also said that the world 'would be ending soon,' and that women should be entirely subject to their husbands in church and at home, and should 'dress modestly,' like Muslim women, among other things that are just bat***t insane. You'll excuse me if I don't find him a credible source, really.


Jesus, however, never said a damn thing about homosexuality. Get your facts straight.

"Modesty" does not mean dressing like a muslim. It means not walking into church wearing jewelry, expensive clothing, and elaborately tressed hair. It does not mean that a woman cannot wear a T-shirt and jeans on a friday afternoon. And he did not say that women should be the subject of their husbands. He said the submit to their husbands, and he told the husbands to respect their wives. It's called being a team. Here's the verse that people love to bring up when they claim the bible is sexist, Colossians 3:18.

"Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord."

BUT, people never seem to remember the next verse, verse 19.

"Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them."

If you love your wife, then you will respect her and not do things that she would disapprove of. The husband and wife are meant to be a team, though the husband is supposed to "wear the pants" in terms of being able to provide leadership. Marraiges where leadership comes from the wife are usually troubled, because the husband refuses to be responsible. When the husband and wife do not live in harmony in the way the bible describes, you will either get a marriage where the husband dominates his wife, or a relationship where they do not communicate well or simply do not care about each other's opinion.

The fact that this verse has been used to justify men treating their wives as property is a prime example of what happens when you re-interpret the bible to meet popular standards, which is exactly what the film in questioning is demanding that Christianity do, but in regards to a different subject.

And the world is ending soon, we just don't know when. Whether it happens a year from now or a thousand years from now, it's pretty soon in comparison to the earth's age, whether you believe in an old earth or a young earth.

The question has always been whether or not Christians should be allowed to have a standard that is separate from that of mainstream society, and if you ask true, born-again bible believing Christians, the answer will always be no. But since the earliest days of Christianity, we've always been under pressure to conform, which the Bible explicitly forbids us to.

To the people who dislike the standards that Christianity sets for what is a sin and what is not, I would very much like to know... What act that you, as a liberated individual do not consider to be "bad," would you be OK with Christians labeling as a sin? Because I'd bet that it's a short list.

 

[porchmonkey408]

Thank you casey, for shedding light on what I did not know much about. And we can still both be right.

In other words, Superhobo, calm the hell down. And let it go.

 

[Superhobo]

Well, homosexuality has nothing to do with getting in to or staying out of, heaven. For those who believe in such things, as far as Christianity is concerned, Heaven, Hell and all of that .. the only criteria for entrance to Heaven is a belief in Jesus Christ, that he is who he said he was, the Messiah. That's it. Anyone who tells you differently is changing scripture. You don't have to be baptized, you don't have to be a so called "good person," you don't have to say dozens of prayers every day or go to church every Sunday or .. whatever. The only thing you have to do, is believe in him.

Having said that, the idea is that by believing in him, you have a change inside and you begin to naturally want to be a better person. But Christians aren't perfect .. they are still sinners (the literal translation for the word sin is "to miss the mark." In other words, to be less than perfect.) So Christians, no matter what their intentions, do sin regularly as well. In Christianity, homosexuality is a sin, so homosexuals are sinners too. But I believe a person can be a Christian and be engaged in the sin of homosexuality just as a person can be a Christian and engaged in the sin of gossip, or gluttony or adultery. So yes, if a person is a Christian homosexual, they get to go to heaven.

Yeah, but screw 'em if they ain't Christian! Right on!

 

[hammy]

Yeah, but screw 'em if they ain't Christian! Right on!

t: That's true of anyone that is a non believer, regardless of sexual orientation.

And porchmonkey, you're welcome. I'm glad it was enlightening.

 

[porchmonkey408]

Yeah, dude, if you are a non-believer, no one knows where you are going. Remember, according to epistemology and metaphysics, depending on what you believe, you'll go there. Buddhists are re-incarnated, Atheists go into nothingness, Anti-Christians go to Hell and good Christians go to Heaven. Its common sense, being a non-believer will not land you in Hell...its a belief-system.

Thread closed.

 

[Timstuff]

Casey, the problem is, if you believe that it's possible to actively be homosexual and be a Christian, then that means that you believe you can be a Christian without acknowledging that you are a sinner. If you know something is wrong, you will try as hard as you can not to do it, even if you are tempted. If you give into temptation every time you are faced with it, then obviously you are not repentant of the sin that you are commuting. I believe that Homosexuals can become Christian, but to do that, they have to be willing to repel the temptations that will still haunt them after they denounce homosexuality. It's possible to do, and many have done it, but unfortunately there are many people who want to have their cake and eat it too. And as Christians, we are not supposed to do that, no matter what the sin in question is.

Christians do sin, but part of being a Christian is asking God's forgiveness when you do wrong. And if you are genuinely sorry for something, you will try not to do it again. I do not see how you can claim to be a Christian if you are unwilling to resist the temptations that the world throws at you on a regular basis.