From SHH with Love: The Relationship Thread

[Erzengel]

It's still a numbers game. You just have to keep meeting people and asking people out. Do it 100 times. You should have 1 yes in there somewhere.

And there are also activities outside of school. Community, maybe find some sort other group that are into an activity you like to do?

 

[A Necessary Evil]

It's just so disheartening the amount of times I've been rejected.

I could try to find something else to do, like you said to meet someone, that is true.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Anytime I go looking for something, I never find it... It always just pops up out of no where.

Then I usually shy away from it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

It's just so disheartening the amount of times I've been rejected.

I could try to find something else to do, like you said to meet someone, that is true.

Frankly I tend not to think about it. If you're one of those who has a tally of the girls that have rejected you, then you honestly probably are fixating on one or two women until you're absolutely certain it's a dead end, which frankly is a complete waste of time.

I tend to forget most women who reject me even before I probably realize I've been rejected; my mind has already wandered off to the next thing. There are more important things in my life after all.

When you say rejected what do you mean?

Do you ask them out, they say yes and then flake out? There's a couple ways to handle that.

Or is it more you try really hard to be noticed rather than asking them out or for a phone number (at least) and then just get frustrated?

I wouldn't exactly consider the latter rejection.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

No, like I am...I can talk to a girl, but they don't show interest.

First of all, you shouldn't care if a girl is "showing interest". I mean that was something that mattered to me when I was much more insecure, but otherwise I don't have time now to count a bunch of "ioi" (pick-up artist word for 'indicators of interest' -- such stupid nonsense). I mean I might not ask them out the first time I see them, especially if I'm aware we may run into each other again. But if all you're doing is talking at them in hopes they will respond with sex, or whatever, then I can tell you that's a fools errand. Unless you ask or make known what you want, whether it's a date or getting laid, you're not going to manipulate them into it with conversation and kindness. That's a one way trip to the friend zone.

 

[Anita18]

I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this.

You never really put over how much of a relationship you guys had. How long you were "seeing" each other. I know you are from a more conservative society, but in the end, how well did you really know her?

Just because you went out a few times, or spent time together or for a short time decided you were a "couple" =/= compatible.

And who knows maybe you do need someone of an extrovert to help you out of some of your introverted tendencies.

Also, how extroverted was she if she can't even stand up to her parents? Again, nothing you really stated made it sound like she was very outgoing.

I have an outgoing cousin with very strict parents. She lived by their rules when under their roof, but when she moved away for college, all bets were off. When you live with them, it's always hard. Doesn't mean that she necessarily isn't outgoing.

I agree that compatibility isn't something that magically works itself out once you decide you're official. My ex and I were together for 1.5 years and we weren't compatible at all. We just didn't realize how important it was because we were so young and inexperienced.

I'm guessing you are in school?

School you should have such a huge selection of meeting people. Classmates, parties, after school activities?

If you're really introverted, your only real option is other people who share classes with you. My fiance and I wouldn't even have had that option had we gone to the same school, because we majored in different subjects.

It's just so disheartening the amount of times I've been rejected.

I could try to find something else to do, like you said to meet someone, that is true.

If online dating isn't working for you (bonus, it's easy to lose track of who's rejected you ), try to find something where you'll find people who share interests. My cousin and my sister met their SOs swing dancing, and my best friend met her husband in tae kwon do. It takes the pressure off, because you'll be having fun anyway, and you don't have to worry about first impressions because you'll be spending some time together anyway.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Most of the time too, I wouldn't advise doing much talking to girls beyond "hi" and "how are you?".

Girls/women seem to fill up dead air in conversation well enough on their own.

Unless it's "so, what're you doing later?" you can let them talk and you just stick to listening.

 

[Anita18]

Most of the time too, I wouldn't advise doing much talking to girls beyond "hi" and "how are you?".

Girls/women seem to fill up dead air in conversation well enough on their own.

Unless it's "so, what're you doing later?" you can let them talk and you just stick to listening.

Speaking of which, a man who actually shows interest in a girl's personality and her interests is incredibly attractive. This is why Bill Clinton is such a ladies man. Everyone I know who has met him can attest to how interested he is in what you have to say, man or woman. Even in a crowd, he makes it seem like you're the only person with him. It is extremely disarming.

When a guy is trying to keep conversation going just because they don't want her to walk away, it's obvious and it's unattractive. That's why it's so important to have shared interests, so at least you can show some actual interest past "She's a chick and she's giving me the time of day!"

 

[Greeneyes]

If online dating isn't working for you (bonus, it's easy to lose track of who's rejected you ), try to find something where you'll find people who share interests. My cousin and my sister met their SOs swing dancing, and my best friend met her husband in tae kwon do. It takes the pressure off, because you'll be having fun anyway, and you don't have to worry about first impressions because you'll be spending some time together anyway.

This is good advice,also when you do an activity that you like and are interested in,you tend to be more yourself as well,so others will see the real you a little more than if you went on a normal date.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Speaking of which, a man who actually shows interest in a girl's personality and her interests is incredibly attractive. This is why Bill Clinton is such a ladies man. Everyone I know who has met him can attest to how interested he is in what you have to say, man or woman. Even in a crowd, he makes it seem like you're the only person with him. It is extremely disarming.

When a guy is trying to keep conversation going just because they don't want her to walk away, it's obvious and it's unattractive. That's why it's so important to have shared interests, so at least you can show some actual interest past "She's a chick and she's giving me the time of day!"

Having met and spoken with Bill Clinton twice I can honestly say he actually doesn't say much. In fact I think he's probably said a total of 20 words to me, and we talked for five minutes. Unless he's being paid to give a speech he tends to let whoever he talks to do most of the talking and that gives him a very disarming presence.

You really feel like you knew him, but when you think about it later you realize he said nothing about himself...at all.

 

[Greeneyes]

He definitely leaves a mark on a person...

 

[Frodo]

It's just so disheartening the amount of times I've been rejected.

Let them chase you, cast a wide net, don't get hung up on one, and don't give a crap.

Youve got demonstrate to them more through your actions than words ,that you could care less if they want you or not. You've got your own life and the world won't end if don't get their number.

As for the whole friend zone situation guys find themselves in, that's easily avoided if you let your intentions know right off the bat , i.e get their number, as them out etc waaay before you get into a situation where youre listening to their problems over and over again.

That way you'll get your answer and you both can move on. No harm , no foul , and it makes things easier for both parties. She doesn't have to put you in the friend zone to spare your feelings, and you don't have to be stuck in a place you don't wanna be in.

Then again , if you're paying attention to hints they drop or how they behave, you can pretty much tell if they're interested in you or not anyway.

 

[Erzengel]

I have an outgoing cousin with very strict parents. She lived by their rules when under their roof, but when she moved away for college, all bets were off. When you live with them, it's always hard. Doesn't mean that she necessarily isn't outgoing.

I agree that compatibility isn't something that magically works itself out once you decide you're official. My ex and I were together for 1.5 years and we weren't compatible at all. We just didn't realize how important it was because we were so young and inexperienced.

I guess Nave stating he is introverted and this girl being extroverted, but outside of going to school, going out, it never really sounded like they were on opposite ends of the spectrum.

If you're really introverted, your only real option is other people who share classes with you. My fiance and I wouldn't even have had that option had we gone to the same school, because we majored in different subjects.

Not everybody is introverted.

 

[Anita18]

This is good advice,also when you do an activity that you like and are interested in,you tend to be more yourself as well,so others will see the real you a little more than if you went on a normal date.

Plus it gives you a better of idea of how being with this person would actually be like. When people go on dates, they're often putting up an act of some kind, whether it be better or worse than their usual personality.

Having met and spoken with Bill Clinton twice I can honestly say he actually doesn't say much. In fact I think he's probably said a total of 20 words to me, and we talked for five minutes. Unless he's being paid to give a speech he tends to let whoever he talks to do most of the talking and that gives him a very disarming presence.

You really feel like you knew him, but when you think about it later you realize he said nothing about himself...at all.

He's an actual listener, basically. I hear he's also very good at remembering names.

He definitely leaves a mark on a person...

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

He's an actual listener, basically. I hear he's also very good at remembering names.

Yeah, very much so. He also makes sure to have that look of interest or grave concern on his face while you talk to him.

I've also heard he has a photographic memory and remembers most names and faces. Although he didn't seem to remember me the second time we spoke, although I never asked either.

 

[Greeneyes]

Yeah, very much so. He also makes sure to have that look of interest or grave concern on his face while you talk to him.

I've also heard he has a photographic memory and remembers most names and faces. Although he didn't seem to remember me the second time we spoke, although I never asked either.

The grave look could just be wind,or an uncomfortable erection he is trying to hide?

Maybe when he first met you he had left the lens cap on?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

The grave look could just be wind,or an uncomfortable erection he is trying to hide?

Maybe when he first met you he had left the lens cap on?

Swing and a miss.

 

[Greeneyes]

Swing and a miss.

lol,sorry for being silly,I'm just in a good mood today,I had a call from a girl who I thought wasn't interested,she left it four days before ringing me back,she's a really nice person as wellt:

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

lol,sorry for being silly,I'm just in a good mood today,I had a call from a girl who I thought wasn't interested,she left it four days before ringing me back,she's a really nice person as wellt:

That's good.

I take it you asked her out or checked to see what her plans were for the week?

 

[Nave 'Torment']

People aren't nearly as predictable as we want them to be. I have more hermit-y tendencies than my fiance, but I'm willing to go out and try new things. And I'm also more willing to tolerate crowds. It's weird.

I'm like that. but i can't seem to convince her otherwise. maybe i talk too much about my introverted self. she thinks im not mature enough with people but am so with more practical things.

don't know what that means at all.

The important thing is to be comfortable with yourself, and communicate using that security. You don't need to categorize yourself to do that.

I'll get there. I was there. Last month. Then all this fear about not being good enough just opened up. I'll get better at it. And plus I think I really discredit myself when it comes to my own strengths. Downplay it too much. I'll try to go the opposite direction see if that does anything for my own confidence.

I'm a rare woman who doesn't care for gifts. Gifts mean nothing to me. Which is actually a good thing because my fiance is CRAP at giving them! He wouldn't know a meaningful gift for me if it hit him in the face!

Part of it's the whole feminist angle of how "men should use gifts to buy a woman's affection." The more expensive the gift, the more affection he's asking. My coworker, the one with the crap husband, gets some very expensive gifts sometimes. The bigger the transgression, the more expensive the gift. Unfortunately, this does make her forgive him (she's more materialistic than I am), but their deep-seated relationship problems are still there. He would not last a week married to me, lemme tell you! "This designer purse is not going to help me do laundry!!! "

So if you buy her an expensive gift, it may make her feel guilty. Maybe she'll want to be with you a little more, but is that what you want? To use expensive gifts to guilt her into a relationship with you? And if you start now, she won't let you stop. Everything you do "wrong," you'll need to shell out money to keep her.

If it must be meaningful, then make it meaningful. Meaningful doesn't have to mean expensive. "Meaningful" mostly means you've been listening to them and know what they like, instead of the rote "flowers and chocolate and jewelry." Even friends can give each other meaningful gifts. I do. I love giving meaningful gifts to my friends, even if I get nothing in return. But please don't feel the need to make it expensive. To me, that just opens up too many cans of worms.

No it wouldn't be too expensive but I understand where you're coming from. I mean, the two things she likes most about me have to do with the fact that apparently she trusts me, that I notice things that others don't about her, and that I'm honest and caring. Which is... good? I guess?

She still considers herself to be my girlfriend. Even after all this. It just makes it so much more difficult and confusing. Right now it's just that "we can't do too much because of dad" and well... she gets guilty from time to time.

I know you guys have just heard my side of the story so far but I've been open and honest about them and really laid it out there. I know I'm needy as hell but does she really seem more mature than I am? It just feels like grasping at sand at this moment, the more I try to hold her the more she slips away, the more I don't she seems to come back.

It's always the two of you. Probably equally. Makes it simpler. That allows for room to improve yourself, while still keeping faith that it was mostly a compatibility issue.

I think with us it's been more of a time issue. But I don't know, maybe it is compatibility. I'm going to stop letting all of this get to me so much, going to stop over-thinking things as the weekend wraps up. It's her birthday so I'm going to give her one last thing and literally after this I'll just stop.

You seem convinced that she sees this as a failure. I'm not so sure she does. Sounds to me like she is itching for something different; and hey, that's her choice and it's okay. That sort of thing happens all the time.

No I meant failure on my part. I need to grow up. And I think I've wasted enough time just waiting for it to happen. It's college after all.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Doesn't help my case at all does it? Your mom is right though, I mean good god I do have standards myself we all do, but I'd like to think that the emotional security-thing alone would suffice right? This entire thing just seems to confirm that cynical stance I used to take before -- that one should never, ever, be emotionally dependent on others, that you yourself come first no matter what and... well I just failed doing that with this girl... twice now.

And well, she's letting them win. She's chalking it up to "this is beyond my control." And she's trying hard to not let her feelings manifest. That tells you a lot. She was defending her father today. She probably will realize just how emotionally abusive her parents have been, my trying to convince her otherwise right now would only make her see me as the bad-guy in all of this, heck, my even showing a little need towards her or affection alone will make her want to hate me further.

I mean good god I want to be there for her but she doesn't want me to be there. And she keeps saying that it's her dad and not herself. But she's gotten so further down that whole that she's probably convinced that I'm not the right person. She wants me to stop feeling for her because yes that'd be the easier thing to do on her conscience. She wants me to stop loving her and is deliberately doing things that she knows I'd dislike.

And well, it's working. Emotions need to be nurtured. What she's doing is systematically lacerating that away and I know it's difficult for her to do and I know it's hard and that she's in pain but she doesn't want me to comfort her. What I'm a bit unsure of right now is...

Whether i should just go up to her and say "yeah I understand what you're going through. If you're not ready for this then you're not ready. It doesn't have to be that bad. Your dad is right, you can find someone better than me."

I don't know, if maybe that'll make her contradict whatever is being told to her? Reverse psychology? I tried being honest and her answer was "be really honest, it hurts."

I actually planned out on a long and meaningful gift for her on her birthday (it's on the 14th for all the good that does) but if she still wants space should I go with that or tone it down and just give her something she wanted? Y'know, one that doesn't elaborately talk about how much I love her and all that?

Yeah that'll probably happen to her.

It's just sad because she was reciprocating then she let her dad get in her way and now she's spending all her time trying to defend him. It doesn't help that she's severing all ways I can reach her and talk to her, I mean you can only do so much in school. One of the things that actually made me want this in the first place is because she came up to me. And I'm repeating this: she came to me. I've always said that I'd only love someone who loves me back -- and this whole thing with doubts and space and what not is just not working out. It isn't. I'm not the most perfectly irresistable guy out there -- for christ's sake i stutter when i talk in public. I get nervous when i'm around people. i'm introverted. And i'm working on that but it's going to take time . I surprised myself (and her) a lot in the past month when we've been going out and doing things I would've never thought I would've done before. But all of that means nothing if at the end of the day she doesn't love me back.

And I've proven myself time and again. Time, and again. How much I care. So I'm impatient now because she stopped all contact. Is that so damn wrong?

That's unconditional love I am giving her

The 14th. I'm giving her till the 14th. Tell me what I should do with the gifts --

1) respect space and give her something she's been asking for that's small and convenient and not really too pushy

2) disregard that and give her something meaningful and expensive that shows just how much I care about her (I don't... really think she needs to know that but it's still a meaningful gesture.)

3) Both.

No. None isn't an option. Not right now. 1) is "none" enough.

This whole post just sounds like she's trying to push you away. She wants to break up, but can't bring herself to actually do it and if you two are both college aged I can see that. It's an immature thing to do, sure, but it sounds like what she's doing. Asking for space, voicing doubts about the relationship and limiting the types of communication. Whether it's her or her parents idea, I'm sorry, but I don't think there's any way to salvage the relationship. This relationship is broken, return any gift you got for her and just walk away, if she really does care for you and want a relationship, she may come back. I really wouldn't count on it though.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I know you guys have just heard my side of the story so far but I've been open and honest about them and really laid it out there. I know I'm needy as hell but does she really seem more mature than I am? It just feels like grasping at sand at this moment, the more I try to hold her the more she slips away, the more I don't she seems to come back.

This could be a very big part of what's going on. Neediness is probably one of the least attractive traits someone can show to a partner.

 

[Anita18]

I'm like that. but i can't seem to convince her otherwise. maybe i talk too much about my introverted self. she thinks im not mature enough with people but am so with more practical things.

don't know what that means at all.

I don't know what that means either.

IMO being mature with people means considering their wants and needs, while giving them space.

I know you guys have just heard my side of the story so far but I've been open and honest about them and really laid it out there. I know I'm needy as hell but does she really seem more mature than I am?

Not one bit. She may seem like she's more "experienced" (partying and doing pot or whatnot) and less uptight, but that doesn't translate to maturity.

I'm more mature than my fiance in a lot of ways, and I haven't experienced things he has.

It just feels like grasping at sand at this moment, the more I try to hold her the more she slips away, the more I don't she seems to come back.

Let her go. If she wants to come back, she will. But you have to let her make the decision, and give her the space to prove herself to you too. Her promising to change and then not making the effort also does you no good. It just seems way too one-sided right now.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

This could be a very big part of what's going on. Neediness is probably one of the least attractive traits someone can show to a partner.

Yeah, gonna have to co-sign this. There's [probably] way more important things in your life than her, and if you (Nave) feel otherwise, well then you need to shift your focus elsewhere. Bottom line, the reason neediness is so unattractive is because is this is 'the real thing' then you kind of have to be independent and able to go after what you want because things like a career, a house and a child are going to end up taking precedent over waiting on her hand and foot.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this.

You never really put over how much of a relationship you guys had. How long you were "seeing" each other. I know you are from a more conservative society, but in the end, how well did you really know her?

Just because you went out a few times, or spent time together or for a short time decided you were a "couple" =/= compatible.

We've known each other for close to 2 years now, ever since we started college. We've been good friends and then slowly it turned into something more. Then last year we started going out but then she got scared and it was put off. That was just a few times going out but I was deeply invested in her back then and it felt as though it wasn't reciprocated. It wasn't official or anything like it is right now -- back then we went out two or three times and that was that. We didn't even get intimate. Remember poetry-girl who got clingy and then I got stupid and then it fell off ? This is her.

Later after things fell apart there was a time when I got really saddened but then I began seeing this other girl who I realized had a completely different idea for fun. It didn't last beyond a second date when I realized I'm not really having a good time with people doing recreational substances around me. So I broke that off. It was simple and consensual and I don't really consider that to be a relationship because that girl herself was just looking for something physical. I wasn't. That is what I'm seeing as a major compatibility issue and so I didn't linger on. It's not like people my age are confined to our jobs and in line with a career or anything, we're all still in college, the future is still ahead. If compatibility is a question it should be one of character instead of career-paths and where-we-might-end-up-in.

Then things changed this past December and we (the current girl and I) started going out again after she said how much she regretted not being close to me and all that jazz. It's been two months now and it just felt like we were serious about it; I know I have always been, and so was she but then that led her to talk to her mom about how serious she was which unsettled them (i'm using a very generous word here). And well, I don't know if I really blame them all that much for freaking out, like I said -- conservative culture -- the minute they heard their daughter was in a serious relationship their first instinct was "are you still a virgin?" Guess how that one turned out?

And yes, it's true that it doesn't necessarily mean that we are compatible, but that's kinda the whole point of it isn't it? To find out whether we are compatible or not? Hence dating and relationships before getting so serious and buying wedding rings?!! That's another huge issue I've had over here in Bangladesh, people just don't get that. They don't. "You only date your girlfriend" and while there is a niche arena for casual daters, it's usually for those who are hooking up instead of actually searching for a relationship. Two extremes. She seemed to understand where I come from -- that there's a place in between where you can test your compatibility.

But y'know what makes all that objectivity moot? The fact that I am in love. That she was as well. Do you really need anything else to test that compatibility? I mean, if you really care about someone, if the incentive is to just be with each other, then you are willing to make everything else work no matter what, yes? That's got to be the ultimate test of compatibility...

Atleast ideally. Or am I being too "immature" when I say that?

And who knows maybe you do need someone of an extrovert to help you out of some of your introverted tendencies.

Also, how extroverted was she if she can't even stand up to her parents? Again, nothing you really stated made it sound like she was very outgoing.

That's exactly what I figured She's extroverted in that she's good with people and really want to be actively social; she's involved in those extracurricular activities with group work and what not. A team player. Who's always using that social mask of hers to get through to people and be everyone's favourite. In contrast to that. I'm not. I work best on my own, I work better when I tell people exactly what I feel like even when it's not the most popular thing to say. It takes a while for me to just say "no" to things. I'm Mr. Nice Guy. Even my 10 year old cousin thinks so.

But the more I see it the more I think I'm not... really... a nice person. At least I'm not exactly functioning well here. If this was back in Virginia I know for a fact that I'd be much more expressive and comfortable with myself. I was like that back there. Here I just feel awkward and out of place and like someone who just never got the memo. It got worse after getting rejected from the colleges I always wanted to go to.

Return them?

No I mean should I give her something small and nice that doesn't explicitly declare how I feel since she wanted space (which she knows but reminders are nice on the 14th), or do I give her something meaningful that does declare it. Explicitly.

Seeing the way she's looking at everything after her conversation with her folks, it seems to me that she will just take that declaration and really deconstruct it to pieces. That's what I feel like will happen. If I'm wrong then she might really appreciate it later on.

You're in school, join some programs, just meet people. Make it a program or after class thing that you are interested in so it will help with your introvertedness.

Well I do get to meet and interact with a lot of people after school when I'm working for the magazine. It doesn't really help -- they write me off as the highly intelligent but socially awkward dude with the pony-tail who doesn't talk too much. Like yesterday, one of my co-workers actually came up to me and asked if I had a problem with my boss. I was like "no? just had a lot in my mind." I get inarticulate around people. And those that I do get comfortable around I think I babble too much and just bore them away.

(you guys have had significant experience with that from my long posts I believe).

Like I said, it's not really an issue that's impossible to amend, but it's taking time and longer than most. And by the time I'll be over it there will be a lot of things that I'll regret. Like if this girl realizes she has to dump me because of my introverted qualities, by the time I get over them it'd be too late with her. That's something I don't want.