From SHH with Love: The Relationship Thread

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So you leaned in for a kiss and she turned away?

No, I kissed her and she reciprocated.

 

[Erzengel]

And then you asked her out and she said no?

 

[Anita18]

Nell seems to come across the most stupid, immature girls ever.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

And then you asked her out and she said no?

I didn't ask her out, because this is the girl that we both said we didn't want to date each other, we just wanted to hook up.

 

[Anita18]

And she still didn't hook up with you?

 

[Erzengel]

I didn't ask her out, because this is the girl that we both said we didn't want to date each other, we just wanted to hook up.

Okay. But the other girls you mentioned, that led you on said that you'd be the type of guy they'd date or sleep with, you never tried to do anything physical?

That might have been one of the reasons they flirted with you so much, you were safe. You never did anything more than just talk.

Who knows they still might have flaked out on you but at least you would have tried instead of wasting your time trying to set up dates.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

And she still didn't hook up with you?

Nope.

 

[Erzengel]

Nell you said it yourself, you're graduating. You don't even think you'll be staying in that area. Maybe once you situate yourself in a new environment, you'll have better luck.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I doubt it. My confidence has been completely shattered. And if that's the be all end all of getting dates, I don't have it.

 

[Anita18]

I doubt it. My confidence has been completely shattered. And if that's the be all end all of getting dates, I don't have it.

Believe me, my ex was exactly the same way. Being unable to get a girl to have sex with you when you're sleeping in the same damn bed? Not a confidence booster.

He pretended he had confidence, but close friends (and girls he got close to, obviously) saw through it. But even then, he didn't mope at home and close himself off. He met his wife at a Young Democrats meeting, which he went to on a whim.

Maybe you don't go out and talk to girls just to get dates, but keep meeting people. You never know where that might lead. And if you talk to girls now, just think of it as practice for when you get out of the pool of extremely stupid and immature single college women.

 

[Erzengel]

Lot of us have been in your situation at some time. Mine was a job in college. I commuted and my school wasn't exactly 50/50 in gender so this is where I did most of my meeting people. I must have gone through 4-5 co workers and did the same routine.

I only had success when I kinda went outside my comfort zone. I went into a new job and started meeting people outside of work.

I hate to say this but, it's either you are picking the worst type of girls or it's the way you interact to them. I really think it's the former. You seem like a nice guy and you just need to meet the right compatible person.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Well you're not personally looking at college girls as a long term commitment was my meaning.

Ah, I see.

I mean even if I'm not looking for a committed relationship, I can't even get hook ups. Even when I have girls flat out telling me either 1.) how much they are attracted to me or 2.) that they don't want a committed relationship with me but want to hook up, even those don't work out.

Well, I mean, honestly hook ups kind of have to be fast. Like get to the sex talk early because that's where you want it to go. You can't just go up and talk about the weather, unless the weather is a forecast for golden showers later or something.

But seriously, it sounds like you're waiting for them to tell you this stuff. You kind of have to be the one telling them what you want them to do. Otherwise you'll only be left with the option of hooking up with really forward girls who act like prostitutes, and who are comfortable making all the moves, or you'll become a magnet for c***teases who know they can get attention and or money from a guy just by stringing him along on promises. What c***teases fear more than anything is a guy who'll give them sh** and a guy who'll straight up tell her what he wants. That's kryptonite to them. You don't seem like that kind of guy.

I sort of agree with the observation Anita made a page back. I mean, honestly, I've spent little time thinking about all the girls you talk to, but all your stories are just the talking part. No real action there. Not to sound sexist, but you are the guy here, you kind of need to make the first move. We have a guy like this at work, you can tell his stories are bullsh** because he just talks about what the girls say to him and what he says to the girls. If he just came in and said "I met this really hot chick last night, she took me back to her place, we had sex" I think I could believe that story just fine, but instead he talks about whatever witty conversation they had and it makes me realize that's all they had. It's good to do a little of that, it better increases your chances of a yes. Just like knowing how to dress or not smelling like a dog's a** makes your appearance do some of that talking for you (this is called "value demonstrating", and the more efficient you are at it, i.e. less time you have to spend doing it, the better), but it sounds like you want these women to be someone they aren't, not do something with you. You want to have sex with them? I don't know, ask to have sex? Don't try to connive them into asking you. I mean it might not be the first thing you want to ask for, but getting a no for it doesn't disqualify you from asking again, or asking for something different, at least after giving it some time.

 

[Anita18]

But seriously, it sounds like you're waiting for them to tell you this stuff. You kind of have to be the one telling them what you want them to do. Otherwise you'll only be left with the option of hooking up with really forward girls who act like prostitutes, and who are comfortable making all the moves, or you'll become a magnet for c***teases who know they can get attention and or money from a guy just by stringing him along on promises. What c***teases fear more than anything is a guy who'll give them sh** and a guy who'll straight up tell her what he wants. That's kryptonite to them. You don't seem like that kind of guy.

Hmmm, that's an interesting observation. A lot of nice girls overthink things too, and are quite shy. If you make your wants known without being too pushy, it could actually give a budding relationship a push in the right direction.

My fiancé let me know pretty early on that he wanted to keep dating me. Without that push, I would have figured that it was going nowhere fast, but the acknowledgement let me know he was interested, even though we moved as slow as molasses!

But I'm not sure if Nell's issue is lack of move-making. He's kissing girls and asking them out and stuff. It's not "advanced player" methods, but it's something. If he met the right person, it would be more than enough.

There must be something else in your interactions with them that's making you a magnet for stupid immature women. How's your tolerance level? My fiancé isn't a chick magnet, but he certainly never found himself friendzoned by attention-seeking women. He has NO tolerance for stupidity or immaturity, from men or women. None. You start talking nonsense, he'll simply walk away and not feel even a tinge of guilt about it.

I don't have quite that stringent of standards, but I don't have any long-term hangers-on that bother me either. I'll listen to immaturity with some patience, but I refuse to "Oh, poor you!" anyone, and eventually they'll go away because I'm not giving them the attention they seek. You have to have standards for what you'll accept and tolerate, and then people will start respecting you. It's a "don't even think about wasting my time" kind of vibe. My fiancé has it in spades, and I have just enough so that people take me seriously.

I sort of agree with the observation Anita made a page back. I mean, honestly, I've spent little time thinking about all the girls you talk to, but all your stories are just the talking part. No real action there. Not to sound sexist, but you are the guy here, you kind of need to make the first move. We have a guy like this at work, you can tell his stories are bullsh** because he just talks about what the girls say to him and what he says to the girls. If he just came in and said "I met this really hot chick last night, she took me back to her place, we had sex" I think I could believe that story just fine, but instead he talks about whatever witty conversation they had and it makes me realize that's all they had. It's good to do a little of that, it better increases your chances of a yes. Just like knowing how to dress or not smelling like a dog's a** makes your appearance do some of that talking for you (this is called "value demonstrating", and the more efficient you are at it, i.e. less time you have to spend doing it, the better), but it sounds like you want these women to be someone they aren't, not do something with you. You want to have sex with them? I don't know, ask to have sex? Don't try to connive them into asking you. I mean it might not be the first thing you want to ask for, but getting a no for it doesn't disqualify you from asking again, or asking for something different, at least after giving it some time.

I will say, it takes a certain kind of personality to pull that off on a girl you're just talking to without coming off like a perv just out of jail. If Nell doesn't have it, I don't suggest he start.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I will say, it takes a certain kind of personality to pull that off on a girl you're just talking to without coming off like a perv just out of jail. If Nell doesn't have it, I don't suggest he start.

Well, that's if you're going for quality, I suppose. Otherwise, even then it's a numbers game. You're going to get shot down, by somebody. There's a girl out there who wouldn't sleep with Sean Connery. That woman exists.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I think because Nell is so behind and inexperienced, he's too focused on finding the one that works. Frankly, I could care less if I get rejected. It happens, quite often, I began tracking it, a bit last week, and although much of it is passive aggressive, I do get shot down, so to speak. I just don't care. I ask, I get what amounts to no, I move on. So, I think he just tolerates games.

I did notice this weekend though I have a bit of passive aggressiveness. A girl walked up to me and said "my friend thinks you're cute" and her friend, well lets just say the feeling wasn't mutual, and eventually I snapped to my senses and finally said "look, not interested" after fumbling around "oh, that's cool, I'm waiting on my friends", "I just needed some air while waiting" trying to be charming about it, ya know, instead of "oh, your friend is ugly, I have no desire to waste my time".

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Being unable to get a girl to have sex with you when you're sleeping in the same damn bed? Not a confidence booster.

Try being in bed with your boyfriend who you've just slept with for the first time (your actual first time at 19) 1 week ago, and being unable to get him to have sex with you...

I tried a lot of different ways. Bought sexy lingerie, tried taking my clothes off slowly and seductively, tried setting an obvious mood with candles and stuff... he was always too tired, too drunk etc. One night I just reach over and grabbed him but he just acted like I was being completely out of order.

At least he was gay, so it definitely wasn't me, but it was still hard picking myself back up again.

I swear, this is precisely the reason I had so much sex after him. The next guy I was FB's with found me incredibly sexy (especially cause I was 20 and he was in his 30s) and it really sorted my confidence out. And once I knew what it felt like to be appreciated as a sexually confident person... well I over compensated a lot

The trouble is... how do you go back to valueing who you have sex with once you've stopped?

Before I lost my virginity, I valued it sooooooo much. I even stopped when me and this guy I was in love with were naked and about to have sex, asked him 'wait, where is this going?', and knowing that question meant 'do you actually wanna be with me, or is this just a one night thing?' he responded with 'your right... maybe you should stay in the spare room'.

I had so much will power. Of course, back then I also had will power about other things like drugs and alcohol too.

But now... well I just don't have any. And I don't see the point of not sleeping with someone if they offer and they are attractive. I mean, I kind of take it where I can get it...

My Mum keeps talking about me starting to respect myself a bit more. Take more care in my appearance, keep my house tidier, stuff like that. And I know that should include not letting anyone who fancies it have a poke.

It's just something I need to rebuild. I really really miss who I was.

Once, this guy who I was in college with told me the best thing about me was my Integrity.

That was the best compliment i've had in my life, and i'd love for it to apply again.

I'm 25 never been in any serious relationship as I've been a huge loner my entire life. I recently have quit drinking as I now have 6 weeks in from 6 long years of drinking. On my off days I'm spending time working out. I have put all pressure off of myself of feeling like I need to find a girlfriend. I have had flings on and off but I have never had a healthy relationship with a woman. I have a hard time building a relationship with anyone lets alone an intimate one. But as of now I am just continuing to sober up, work out, rack up the hours at work and let my love life fall into place. Also, build more confidence in myself to put myself out there a little more. DOes this sound like a solid plan?

Sounds great I should be doing all these things myself!

There must be something else in your interactions with them that's making you a magnet for stupid immature women.

It's so difficult to see what it is your doing wrong, but if people are consistently doing the same thing to you, you HAVE to look at yourself and what it is that draws them to you.

 

[Erzengel]

Hmmm, that's an interesting observation. A lot of nice girls overthink things too, and are quite shy. If you make your wants known without being too pushy, it could actually give a budding relationship a push in the right direction.

My fiancé let me know pretty early on that he wanted to keep dating me. Without that push, I would have figured that it was going nowhere fast, but the acknowledgement let me know he was interested, even though we moved as slow as molasses!

But I'm not sure if Nell's issue is lack of move-making. He's kissing girls and asking them out and stuff. It's not "advanced player" methods, but it's something. If he met the right person, it would be more than enough.

There must be something else in your interactions with them that's making you a magnet for stupid immature women. How's your tolerance level?

Unless one of us is there, there's no way to possible say what Nell is doing wrong. Does he come off too strong? Needy? Is he not assertive enough?

I mean I went years with the same routine. And I probably missed out on opportunities. Late night at a girl's house or girl resting on my lap. I was too naive to ever do anything about it.

But once the seal was broken, I just stopped caring and which is why I would have no patience for some of the girls that Nell was interested in. 18 year old w/ boyfriend? I'd like to say I wouldn't but if it's been a while then I would have invited her over pretty quickly. Girl he dated for 2-3 months without intimacy? It would have been done 3 dates in.

I will say, it takes a certain kind of personality to pull that off on a girl you're just talking to without coming off like a perv just out of jail. If Nell doesn't have it, I don't suggest he start.

It can happen though. I though being "their friend" and patience was the key. There was a switch in me that just stopped caring and I had no patience for someone who would cancel dates and I would have no problem being physical on a 1st date.

 

[Anita18]

Well, that's if you're going for quality, I suppose. Otherwise, even then it's a numbers game. You're going to get shot down, by somebody. There's a girl out there who wouldn't sleep with Sean Connery. That woman exists.

In a big city, it may not matter. The girl who gives you side-eye then shoots you down, you'll probably never see again. But if you're going around one place like this, especially in a college campus, word travels!

My Mum keeps talking about me starting to respect myself a bit more. Take more care in my appearance, keep my house tidier, stuff like that. And I know that should include not letting anyone who fancies it have a poke.

It's just something I need to rebuild. I really really miss who I was.

Once, this guy who I was in college with told me the best thing about me was my Integrity.

That was the best compliment i've had in my life, and i'd love for it to apply again.

On paper, I'm definitely a prude (hello, marrying the guy I lost my virginity to! ), but I don't think you should apologize at all if you like having sex and do it with different men because you're not in a committed relationship. That in itself has nothing to do with your integrity. Nor is taking care about your appearance or keeping your house tidy. I'd fail on all those fronts, but I think everyone I know would say I have a lot of integrity! Whereas my coworker is a yes-woman and does EVERYTHING right (cooks, cleans, great mother, great daughter, check check check), but she lacks integrity in many parts of her life. She does certain things because it is expected of her by other people, not because it is honest to herself. However, she certainly does not lack integrity at work, which is the one thing we are pushing her with. It's the one thing she has to hold onto, that's honest about her deepest self.

To have integrity, you have to be honest with yourself and the reasons you're doing things. Like, if you're having NSA sex because you honestly like it and don't give a crap about being in a relationship, more power to you! But if you're doing it because you feel like society expects you to be sexually wanted and you feel the need to "take it when you can get it," then that's not having integrity. It's not always obvious on paper, but you definitely feel it inside. And then it'll show on your demeanor, that you don't take crap from anyone.

Does that make any sense? I really should go to sleep!

It's so difficult to see what it is your doing wrong, but if people are consistently doing the same thing to you, you HAVE to look at yourself and what it is that draws them to you.

Yup. It's always other people, unless it's happening to you all the damn time. Then it's probably you.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

In a big city, it may not matter. The girl who gives you side-eye then shoots you down, you'll probably never see again. But if you're going around one place like this, especially in a college campus, word travels!

That's an invented worry, especially since anyone can change how they approach people. People shouldn't worry about making an a** out of themselves while failing to an extent. It's all part of the learning process. Unless you like to sexually assault people, it's not the end of the world to have a few of your more interesting embarrassments be known. People tend to worrying themselves to death over what other people think of them, in the end, no matter what they're saying, it's a better start off point to have people talking about you than not knowing you exist.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

On paper, I'm definitely a prude (hello, marrying the guy I lost my virginity to! ), but I don't think you should apologize at all if you like having sex and do it with different men because you're not in a committed relationship. That in itself has nothing to do with your integrity. Nor is taking care about your appearance or keeping your house tidy. I'd fail on all those fronts, but I think everyone I know would say I have a lot of integrity! Whereas my coworker is a yes-woman and does EVERYTHING right (cooks, cleans, great mother, great daughter, check check check), but she lacks integrity in many parts of her life. She does certain things because it is expected of her by other people, not because it is honest to herself. However, she certainly does not lack integrity at work, which is the one thing we are pushing her with. It's the one thing she has to hold onto, that's honest about her deepest self.

To have integrity, you have to be honest with yourself and the reasons you're doing things. Like, if you're having NSA sex because you honestly like it and don't give a crap about being in a relationship, more power to you! But if you're doing it because you feel like society expects you to be sexually wanted and you feel the need to "take it when you can get it," then that's not having integrity. It's not always obvious on paper, but you definitely feel it inside. And then it'll show on your demeanor, that you don't take crap from anyone.

Does that make any sense? I really should go to sleep!

Makes total sense, and I think it's a bit of both.

I mean, the majority of us do have 'needs'. I kind of go 'on heat' once in a while... Happened a few months back and I had two hook ups in two weeks.

Of course that was after 6 months of nothing, and it'll probably be another 6 months of nothing before I get desperate enough to go looking for any attractive guy who'll offer (I must stress they have to make the move as well, I am not so much of a **** I just ask random guys if they wanna stick me).

But TBH, it's not all that enjoyable. Because in order to find a guy quickly it has to involve alchohol. And then it's a blurry, unsatisfactory mess anyway, that's kind of like craving a chocolate bar and trying to satisfy it by stuffing your face full of plain crackers if that makes sense

I mean, the intention is that if I find a guy who I actually wanna date, I won't sleep with him. And I stick to that. I have said no to a drunken hook up with a guy I had a crush on for ages because I didn't wanna seem that easy to him. Unfortunately, I don't usually get to date the guys I wanna date anyway

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

It can happen though. I though being "their friend" and patience was the key. There was a switch in me that just stopped caring and I had no patience for someone who would cancel dates and I would have no problem being physical on a 1st date.

Also, with Sean Connery, we see him in his classic womanizing form by the time he is 33, there was a lot of trial and error before then.

Which is the point. You can say there are all these pitfalls, or it takes a certain personality, but you only get that personality from practice.

 

[Anita18]

Makes total sense, and I think it's a bit of both.

I mean, the majority of us do have 'needs'. I kind of go 'on heat' once in a while... Happened a few months back and I had two hook ups in two weeks.

Of course that was after 6 months of nothing, and it'll probably be another 6 months of nothing before I get desperate enough to go looking for any attractive guy who'll offer (I must stress they have to make the move as well, I am not so much of a **** I just ask random guys if they wanna stick me).

But TBH, it's not all that enjoyable. Because in order to find a guy quickly it has to involve alchohol. And then it's a blurry, unsatisfactory mess anyway, that's kind of like craving a chocolate bar and trying to satisfy it by stuffing your face full of plain crackers if that makes sense

I mean, the intention is that if I find a guy who I actually wanna date, I won't sleep with him. And I stick to that. I have said no to a drunken hook up with a guy I had a crush on for ages because I didn't wanna seem that easy to him. Unfortunately, I don't usually get to date the guys I wanna date anyway

Yeah it can definitely be complicated when your self changes its mind about what it wants to do.

Also, with Sean Connery, we see him in his classic womanizing form by the time he is 33, there was a lot of trial and error before then.

Which is the point. You can say there are all these pitfalls, or it takes a certain personality, but you only get that personality from practice.

Yeah the whole "word travels" excuse doesn't really matter, in the end. But I dunno, I think that if you aren't a touchy feely kind of person by nature, TRYING to be one comes off as a creep. Even if you practice. It definitely depends on how in control you are of your nearly unconscious body language. Some guys are just better at it than others.

God knows my fiancé tries valiantly to see through his commitments to me to go to certain social functions, but that man CANNOT hide when he is unhappy. He looked like he was on the verge of jumping out a window at a show last weekend.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't think Nell has stated if he was or wasn't touchy feely.

I think I previously said, I would take my cue from my date. When they started finding excuses to touch me, then I knew it was usually okay for me to. Normally I'm uncomfortable with touching by strangers...except if they were hot.

Erzette didn't come from the most "affectionate" home, but she picked it up pretty quickly from me as well.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't think Nell has stated if he was or wasn't touchy feely.

I think I previously said, I would take my cue from my date. When they started finding excuses to touch me, then I knew it was usually okay for me to. Normally I'm uncomfortable with touching by strangers...except if they were hot.

Erzette didn't come from the most "affectionate" home, but she picked it up pretty quickly from me as well.

I'm not touchy feely, and actually have had to work at it.

At first it definitely came off as creepy. I actually remember being told to stop touching people, that was probably back in high school, maybe a bit of college. After a while I became better at it.

There's a lot of subtle brushes one can get away with which are good to get things going. In the beginning I'd range from way too subtle, to too aggressive.

I'm not saying Nell has to get good at this or that. Frankly I don't think he has much of an established comfort zone, or seems pretty narrow in terms of what his comfort zone is. Usually part of the point of breaking your comfort is to find out exactly what your comfort zone is, even if you don't end up altering it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I stole a good pick up line from James Bond this weekend, I was pretty happy with the result of it as well

It was "I'd like to buy you a drink. Heck, maybe if I'm feeling generous I'll stretch to two".