BvS Gal Gadot IS Wonder Woman! - Part 5

[charl_huntress]

cheesy isn't always a bad thing, there's something endearing about cheese.

I think so too.

Didn't the Carter show have her do a ton of Bionic Man style jumping around? It's been years since I've seen a second of that show.

Yes, she can jump very high and there was a sound effect. I don't remember her being able to leap incredibly high distances, but she had some hops.

 

[roach]

You have a valid point, man, not denying that... But as much crossover of power as there is in a lot of these super groups, there is also a level of distinction between the members as well, and I just think that's important to highlight. Other wise you end up like the FOX Mutant films where there kinda seems to be a ton of muties with "leaping" powers, and the like. I mean, as an example, Aquaman is super strong, sure. But at a Superman/Martian Manhunter/Capt. Marvel level? For me, in the comics, the issue in FOR TOMORROW where WW and Superman have their battle, is kind of where I see things. She is insanely tough by human standards, truly a Herculean Demi-God type. But Superman is just at another level. With her overall toughness and strength, combined with elite training and access to magic though, she could put a hurting on him, and there is even a chance she could be a lethal opponent to Superman. But when all is said and done... No, she should not have his level of speed, strength or invulnerability.

What separates the Justice League from other teams is that its less about their powers and more about the characters.

 

[MrsKent26]

roach, I guess what I really mean is not that viewers will be confused, but more that if you make WW's power level equal it makes her seem like a near (notice the qualifier) total copy of Superman and it could come across as making Superman redundant. I mean, if she's as strong, invulnerable and as fast as he is, AND she also flies, and to top it all off she's this insanely trained warrior and battle mistress... Well, why do we need Superman around again? I think those two things are something to consider is all.

This is a good point. She isn't as strong or as fast as him in most comics. So, I don't want her to be in this movie. She's not supposed to be a female Supes. I also don't want to see that cliched shot of her giving Supes a kick or punch to prove she's badass, either. I've seen it happen in more than one comic. Because superman is traditionally so powerful, they use him as a means to prop up other characters. If a character can beat on superman, they must be badass. I hope they resist this temptation. Show her beating on the bad guys instead. As for the flying, I think I'd rather her come close to it, but not quite fly. She could be like the MOS kryptonians before they flew. They were still capable of some crazy stuff. I do like comic characters in movies to at least be close to their comic power-levels, but I'm ok with some changes. They didn't use superman's freeze breath in MOS and I was ok with that because his other powers were used.

 

[roach]

This is a good point. She isn't as strong or as fast as him in most comics. So, I don't want her to be in this movie. She's not supposed to be a female Supes. I also don't want to see that cliched shot of her giving Supes a kick or punch to prove she's badass, either. I've seen it happen in more than one comic. Because superman is traditionally so powerful, they use him as a means to prop up other characters. If a character can beat on superman, they must be badass. I hope they resist this temptation. Show her beating on the bad guys instead. As for the flying, I think I'd rather her come close to it, but not quite fly. She could be like the MOS kryptonians before they flew. They were still capable of some crazy stuff. I do like comic characters in movies to at least be close to their comic power-levels, but I'm ok with some changes. They didn't use superman's freeze breath in MOS and I was ok with that because his other powers were used.

I am not saying she should be as strong as Superman. If they aren't going to show her full powers than that's a nerf...and if you aren't going to have her at her power levels then you may as well throw her in the bikini suit since I feel that's just as disrespectful.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I am not saying she should be as strong as Superman. If they aren't going to show her full powers than that's a nerf...and if you aren't going to have her at her power levels then you may as well throw her in the bikini suit since I feel that's just as disrespectful.

And... I agree somewhat. I think of her as less robustly strong and invulnerable than Superman, but at the same time I wonder oldrazz if that is doing the character a disservice in this new DCCU. It's not totally cut and dried for me. I just prefer her to be less powerful, yet still dynamic and competent enough to never really need for a Superman type to save her. In fact it would be cool to see her save him for whatever reason. It would be a way to accomplish showcasing her without resorting to the "let her beat up the tough guy to establish herself" trope.

 

[MrsKent26]

I am not saying she should be as strong as Superman. If they aren't going to show her full powers than that's a nerf...and if you aren't going to have her at her power levels then you may as well throw her in the bikini suit since I feel that's just as disrespectful.

The bikini suit is a different social issue and has nothing to do with this. Sexism and comic character powers are not comparable. And having her less strong/fast than Supes isn't a nerf. She isn't in the comics. And as for the flying, does she always fly? And I didn't suggest that she didn't do anything remotely like flying. I'm also not the first person to suggest it, so I'm not sure why you're throwing that disrespect comment at me. I could deal with it if she did fly though. I'm just not sure about it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Whoa... Let's all ease down a bit here. We may be starting, repeat, STARTING to get a little cranky. Probably cuz we all should be sleeping.

 

[MrsKent26]

I'm fine Krypton. That comment of his threw me a bit. Perhaps my response was more harsh than necessary. I'll lighten up.

 

[roach]

The bikini suit is a different social issue and has nothing to do with this. Sexism and comic character powers are not comparable. And having her less strong/fast than Supes isn't a nerf. She isn't in the comics. And as for the flying, does she always fly? And I didn't suggest that she didn't do anything remotely like flying. I'm also not the first person to suggest it, so I'm not sure why you're throwing that disrespect comment at me. I could deal with it if she did fly though. I'm just not sure about it.

I am not saying she can't be weaker than Superman. I am saying there is no need to take away her ability to fly just because Superman can fly. If we were talking about Martian Manhunter would anyone be suggesting that he can't fly? If were talking about Captain Marvel/Shazam would anyone suggest he can't fly? If we were talking about Hawkman, Green Lantern, Red Tornado, Firestorm or Dr. Fate no one would be saying take away flight. So why are we talking about taking away WW's flight? We have a Superman at full abilities...we hope we get a Batman at full(comic) abilities...but WW we can nerf. I find it as disrespectful as dressing her in her comic costume. Sorry if that offended you but I question that the only character anyone is talking about taking abilities from is a female.

 

[charl_huntress]

I am not saying she can't be weaker than Superman. I am saying there is no need to take away her ability to fly just because Superman can fly. If we were talking about Martian Manhunter would anyone be suggesting that he can't fly? If were talking about Captain Marvel/Shazam would anyone suggest he can't fly? If we were talking about Hawkman, Green Lantern, Red Tornado, Firestorm or Dr. Fate no one would be saying take away flight. So why are we talking about taking away WW's flight? We have a Superman at full abilities...we hope we get a Batman at full(comic) abilities...but WW we can nerf. I find it as disrespectful as dressing her in her comic costume. Sorry if that offended you but I question that the only character anyone is talking about taking abilities from is a female.

This is not a nerf. It's about making her different from the one person in the universe who has a nearly equal powerset as hers. That's all. No one is depowering her, just giving her an opportunity to shine without the comparison.

 

[Smashlilman]

This is not a nerf. It's about making her different from the one person in the universe who has a nearly equal powerset as hers. That's all. No one is depowering her, just giving her an opportunity to shine without the comparison.

Sups will also be compared to Flash.

 

[MrsKent26]

I am not saying she can't be weaker than Superman. I am saying there is no need to take away her ability to fly just because Superman can fly. If we were talking about Martian Manhunter would anyone be suggesting that he can't fly? If were talking about Captain Marvel/Shazam would anyone suggest he can't fly? If we were talking about Hawkman, Green Lantern, Red Tornado, Firestorm or Dr. Fate no one would be saying take away flight. So why are we talking about taking away WW's flight? We have a Superman at full abilities...we hope we get a Batman at full(comic) abilities...but WW we can nerf. I find it as disrespectful as dressing her in her comic costume. Sorry if that offended you but I question that the only character anyone is talking about taking abilities from is a female.

It's not because she's a female. It's because she doesn't always fly and she doesn't have the alien excuse to go with the flying. Two of the posters that have suggested she might not fly are female. Do you really think it's because we want to nerf the one female character? For me, it's because I already have difficulty seeing a fantasy character mixed into the MOS world and the flying doesn't help at all. I don't buy into magic that easily. I know that's unpopular as there's apparently this new "realism is the devil" movement going on, but that's what I have trouble with. And I was fine with her getting really close to flying and will deal with the flying if they choose to use it. I just have to get used to this magic stuff in the MOS verse. It still seems odd to me.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I am not saying she can't be weaker than Superman. I am saying there is no need to take away her ability to fly just because Superman can fly. If we were talking about Martian Manhunter would anyone be suggesting that he can't fly? If were talking about Captain Marvel/Shazam would anyone suggest he can't fly? If we were talking about Hawkman, Green Lantern, Red Tornado, Firestorm or Dr. Fate no one would be saying take away flight. So why are we talking about taking away WW's flight? We have a Superman at full abilities...we hope we get a Batman at full(comic) abilities...but WW we can nerf. I find it as disrespectful as dressing her in her comic costume. Sorry if that offended you but I question that the only character anyone is talking about taking abilities from is a female.

Your point has little validity considering all those characters have ALWAYS had flight as a power and in other media. WW'S first and only show showed her without it and no one ever cried that it was sexist. People are reading far too much into one of her many abilities.

 

[roach]

Your point has little validity considering all those characters have ALWAYS had flight as a power and in other media. WW'S first and only show showed her without it and no one ever cried that it was sexist. People are reading far too much into one of her many abilities.

Superman always flew???
His first animated appearances by the Fleischer Studios didn't have a flying Superman.

 

[charl_huntress]

Sups will also be compared to Flash.

Flash has the speed force. He can also do things that Superman cannot do. He is I believe faster than Superman.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Flash has the speed force. He can also do things that Superman cannot do. He is I believe faster than Superman.

This is what I mean! Even when there is an overlap of power sets, there is still a distinction, either in rationale or differing levels of ability.

 

[roach]

Superman is super fast...why do we need The Flash?
Superman is strong...why do we need WW or MM or Aquaman?
Superman is super intelligent...why do we need Batman?
Superman flies why do we need anyone else who flies?

 

[roach]

This is what I mean! Even when there is an overlap of power sets, there is still a distinction, either in rationale or differing levels of ability.

exactly...WW flies differently and not as fast as Superman.

 

[MrsKent26]

Superman is super fast...why do we need The Flash?
Superman is strong...why do we need WW or MM or Aquaman?
Superman is super intelligent...why do we need Batman?
Superman flies why do we need anyone else who flies?

Well, I have always thought that Supes doesn't need the JL to get things done, but this isn't my reasoning. I just have trouble with magic in this universe (see my previous reply to you).

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Superman is super fast...why do we need The Flash?
Superman is strong...why do we need WW or MM or Aquaman?
Superman is super intelligent...why do we need Batman?
Superman flies why do we need anyone else who flies?

(10th Doctor voice): Well...


For one, none of those other characters could easily be accused of being a copy of Superman only female. (Hello Supergirl!!) And again, there are distinctions and differences galore.

I do feel what you are saying about the appearance of her getting nerfed. I get where that sentiment comes from and why it vexes.

 

[roach]

Well, I have always thought that Supes doesn't need the JL to get things done, but this isn't my reasoning. I just have trouble with magic in this universe (see my previous reply to you).

and you shouldn't because there is a way to do magic that fits into the MOS universe.

 

[roach]

(10th Doctor voice): Well...


For one, none of those other characters could easily be accused of being a copy of Superman only female. (Hello Supergirl!!) And again, there are distinctions and differences galore.

I do feel what you are saying about the appearance of her getting nerfed. I get where that sentiment comes from and why it vexes.

MM is just a green Superman...who shape shifts

 

[MrsKent26]

and you shouldn't because there is a way to do magic that fits into the MOS universe.

I'm sure there is, but I have trouble visualizing it. WW doesn't have the alien excuse. I just can't picture someone saying "Zeus gave me the power of flight" in the MOS universe.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Superman always flew???
His first animated appearances by the Fleischer Studios didn't have a flying Superman.

But in almost all of his appearances except for very few have all showed him with this ability and the most widely and well known version of him in multimedia is a flying Superman. With WW it is not so.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

MM is just a green Superman...who shape shifts

...and has telepathy, and can phase shift his density, and character wise he is a true strange visitor unlike Superman who is an adopted son of this planet, and yes, visually there is this great distinction.

But in the GA there is not a feeling of MM just being Superman but green. The idea of WW just being Superman in a dress should be taken head on to help with her uniqueness I think.