Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - Part 18

[Sawyer]

Dolorous Edd was on Doctor Who tonight.

 

[Hyde]

Unfortunately that wasn't Dolorous Edd - the actor is Michael Smiley, although they do look similar

 

[Sawyer]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/03/bran-stark-game-of-thrones-season-5/

Not really surprising to me.

 

[Drizzle]

NO HODOR?!?

I can sort of see why they're doing it, but Bran is going to look even older when Season 6 rolls around.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I guess when you're melted into a tree it doesn't matter how old you look.

Also, Bran-Meera sex scenes

 

[Iceman]

The point is, he wouldn't have even tolerated that ****. He would have threatened her right back with the possibility of her hated younger brother going free and her only remaining son being left at the whims of the Tyrells. And with his poker face she would have been the one cowed, for all Cersei's flaws she isn't heartless and in this case it makes her in a weaker position.

Her even attempting that would likely result in some major backlash from Tywin, either through some form of imprisonment or immediate assassination. Maybe you could argue that it was a false victory and that Tywin was secretly planning to do away with her, but theres nothing really in that scene or the scene afterwards to imply that. It just wasn't properly thought out beyond the moment, and when it comes to a series as intricate as this, it seems lazy.

Missed this before. I think it's a good point that her weakness for her kids is greater than Tywin's for his legacy as to Tywin anyone can go for the legacy while Cersei will always have that ultimate vulnerability while her kids are alive.

Even if he didn't trust Tyrion he could still throw that in her face and not actually utilise Tyrion, or even better he could do it only to kill Tyrion later on when it suited him, he has Kevan and Kevan's sons to continue the family name after he dies. But beyond that, he made no attempt against her at all. In fact he goes up to his tower and he ****s Shae to show how concerned he is by the whole thing. The way they presented it was as if he was beaten, when his ruthless nature would have led him to find a way to get rid of Cersei and her threats permenantly and protect that family name.

Also, let's look at the show's internal continuity. Three episodes before that scene we had the Tywin/Jaime scene for Tyrion's trial where he pretty much implies to Jaime that he knows the kids are his. So, they're not even being consistent with his character.

I don't know the answer to this (haven't read far enough to know enough about Kevan) but would this count in the same way? Is any Lannister a worthy Lannister even from a different line of descendants? I couldn't imagine him being happy with Lancel becoming head of his house one day for e.g. lol. And if any Lannister was worthy then would it really matter that Tyrion was a dwarf?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well, Tywin was just as happy to have Lancel marry Sansa as he was for Tyrion to do it. It was only because Lancel was bedridden and unable to physically have sex with her and Tyrion's desire for power that she married the Imp. Plus Kevan is Tywin's sole surviving brother, the line is more or less the same.

 

[Iceman]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/03/bran-stark-game-of-thrones-season-5/

Not really surprising to me.

Shoudn't they have just moved a scene from S4 to 5?

Well, Tywin was just as happy to have Lancel marry Sansa than he was for Tyrion to do it. It was only because Lancel was bedridden and unable to physically have sex with her and Tyrion's desire for power that she married the Imp. Plus Kevan is Tywin's sole surviving brother, the line is more or less the same.

I think he's fine with non-suitable heirs being used to marry off into other Houses to increase power and influence even if they are themselves sub-par. I expected Tywin & his ego to want his own descendants to continue the line (and not Tyrion) and lead the Lannister House. Otherwise it shouldn't matter so much even if his own 3 kids **** up completely as he can still always fall back on Kevan and his descendants. I don't think it counts the same way to him at least and he would regard his efforts as a failure if the mantle passed to his brother by default, as he just shouldn't be so concerned at the prospect of all 3 of his own kids not measuring up if maintaining the Lannister name has such a large safety net.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I don't think he considers Kevan to be an inferior Lannister at all, in fact during several council sessions he often looks to Kevan to back him up. And of course you have to consider that Tywin never remarried or tried to gather anymore children, even after Jaime joined the Kingsgaurd and refused his title. For someone intent on building a lasting legacy he didn't try and create any more children to continue that legacy. He left himself with Tyrion or Kevan as heirs and he made it abundantly clear that Tyrion would never rule Casterly Rock, so I think that speaks to his motives well enough when it came to Lannister succession.

 

[Iceman]

I don't think he considers Kevan to be an inferior Lannister at all, in fact during several council sessions he often looks to Kevan to back him up. And of course you have to consider that Tywin never remarried or tried to gather anymore children, even after Jaime joined the Kingsgaurd and refused his title. For someone intent on building a lasting legacy he didn't try and create any more children to continue that legacy. He left himself with Tyrion or Kevan as heirs and he made it abundantly clear that Tyrion would never rule Casterly Rock, so I think that speaks to his motives well enough when it came to Lannister succession.

It does actually, that's a good explanation. And I didn't think that he thought Kevan was inferior, just that it wasn't his own descendant line but like you say he didn't remarry and try and get better heirs once he realised he didn't have any appropriate ones left. Although he might have thought of Cersei's descendants as valid even if he suspected how they came about and even if most people suspected, at least until it was publicly admitted. While one of the guys is on the throne it isn't exactly something people can freely talk about and it was still one of his descendants, even when it was the psychotic unpredictable one.

 

[KevanG]

After reading the books and seeing these discussions, only now have I realized am I much more used to seeing Kevin spelled with an 'in' that my own 'an'.

 

[Victarion]

http://highlighthollywood.com/2014/...ome-filming-all-day-highlight-hollywood-news/

The article leads me to believe that its either the stone men or T. Stoneheart.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Or just a bunch of Stoned Giants.

 

[KevanG]

So Wun Wun gets into the milk of the poppy?

 

[Victarion]

I guess when you're melted into a tree it doesn't matter how old you look.

Also, Bran-Meera sex scenes

Not without Hodor as their warg go-between.

 

[KevanG]

You people are monsters.

But first my own theory: Bran wargs into Hodor via a raven first and gets confused making Hodor doing the Raven mating dance in front of her.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I'm think it'd be good old fashioned Evil Dead Tree-Sex.

 

[Victarion]

I've been thinking more about the second Dance of Dragons. I think this will coincide with the coming of the Others, the Dragons being Jon and Dany.

 

[Marvolo]

I was thinking about something. GRRM likes to subvert genre tropes, and a genre trope of fantasy is a massive climax battle of good vs evil. Do y'all think George may not have a massive battle as the climax? I always just assumed there'd be a huge battle of white walkers versus Westeros, but now IDK.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

That would suck. a way to subvert the "triumph of good over evil" would be that the war ends in a stalemate with a truce brokered by Lightbringer I.E. Jon, With Bran and Dany.

 

[Hyde]

I think Bloodraven and the CotF are basically engineering this war between 'Ice' and 'Fire,' which will result in both sides wiping each other out, leaving Westeros free from any humans or dragons or whatever so the Children can once again rule it. That would be a pretty bittersweet ending to me.

 

[Victarion]

I think there's a bigger game of thrones going on between the children and the Others. I'm not sure about the dragons, or how they fit. Speaking of subversions, the children not acquiescing to an "age of men" works out great.

Marvolo, some fans believe that the Night's King and Last Hero are the same person: the Last Hero became a hero by sealing a pact, or truce, between the humans and Others via marriage. This is consistent with the Night's King having taken an Other for a lover. I am of the opinion that Jon will, somehow, end up allying himself with the Others. Meanwhile, Dany will likely find an alliance with Euron Greyjoy and gain access to whatever is in the Citadel. I like to think that there's some rogue order of maesters who are attempting to reconcile magic and scientific development. I would think this to be of great interest to Euron, given his taste for the exotic.

However, I do wonder if the Others aren't as fragmented as the Seven Kingdoms. If so, Euron could be serving a faction of the Others. This is based on a warning for Dany in ADWD about the servant of the night and a black eye turned toward Dany. In a Theon sample chapter for TWOW, it is mentioned that Euron has a black eye under his eyepatch.

 

[Roose Bolton]

You have to Remember that the Night's King was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, when Joramun was King Beyond the Wall, so a bit over a thousand years after Bran built the Wall. So it's important to bear in mind in most NK theories that while he's ancient, he's somewhat more recent compared to the other mythic figures.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

i think it would be pretty kick ass to have Sansa become the Night's Queen (since there already is a Night's King) the instead of Jon becoming the Next Night's King. not sure how that would be accomplished though.

 

[Hyde]

Stannis is the Night's King.

#HYPE