Gender Roles & Identity in contemporary society

[Mandon Knight]

Following much debate in all areas of the media and across many levels of the workplace, social & interactive world, the roles or identifiable 'locked in' notions of gender & equality, what does it mean to be an individual in contemporary (modern) society, what is it to be an individual or unique ? Behaviour or 'standard' interpretation of what is believed to be 'the norm' is often askew or varied these days. Example this week being Piers Morgan and his sniping at Daniel Craig using a front cradle carrier for his son, evidently, in Morgan's view was de-emasculating 'Bond', which is/was complete rubbish as a statement. What is it to be a man in contemporary society, what is our role ? is the same as it always been, are we seen differently ? Basically, gender and how it's seen and how it's reflected in the world we live in today. Discuss gang.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I think regardless of gender, the principals of humanity are the same, treat all as equal, with the upmost of respect and care with all our heart for our loved ones, be it, friend, family or those in our life. I appreciate I do not meet what would be regarded as the 'defined' or a-typical traits of masculinity, but this does defer me or 'down grade' my role as man, friend, or prospective partner.

I think gender 'roles' as defined previously in history, thankfully do not exist in the same pre-determined fashion as they once did, although obviously gender definition in the workplace for example in terms of role, pay scale and access to opportunity still need to be addressed.

At the end of the day, people are people and all equally worthy in the role, or aptitude for work or achievement, what gets me the most is that a 'certain age', people must have attained a certain level of life and if not or have not things in their life - whether it be family, finance or a socially defined existence, they are thought of less than their peers or expectation within that social 'bubble', whatever gender, male or female.

 

[jmc]

Gender ‘roles’ still exist, but we’re not locked into them in the same way we once were. Thanks to the women now being able to control when they have kids thanks to the pill there are more options on the table for people. Both sexes in general will always have preferences and make choices that adhere to those traditional traits, but there are more options available and more room for compromise than there once was.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Small piece (American TV) shot in 2016 covering 'modern' talk and views....



From my own experience and discussion, I certainly do not use or recognise Trump's talk or attitudes.

 

[Lighthouse]

Gender roles may have lessened in the years, but they are still absolutely a huge part of our society. This is what the conversation of MeToo and toxic masculinity is all about. Guys and girls are still raised according to societal pressures according to gender. Boys are still encouraged to keep in emotion and that the worst thing you can possibly be is effeminate or weak. Girls are encouraged to not be assertive, and are called "difficult" when they are.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Grayson Perry's talks about that here.....



It's the hardest thing in the world if you embody the examples you mention Lighthouse, absolutely, especially if you are a minority within the majority in a geographical sense or place of work for example.

 

[Lighthouse]

Boy, his "we are the jailor and the prisoner" is right on the money.

The fear of showing weakness is something we really need grow out of with gender norms. One of the most depressing things I saw during the MeToo movement was Twitter stories where men shared their sex abuse stories, and when they tried to share with their male friends, they were almost always told that it was embarrassing, they should hide it and not tell anyone. Men tend to be more afraid to confide or ask for help and that's why we have such a high suicide rate.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Don't agree with the view that men put so much onus on sex in a relationship, not all men do, but on a whole Perry is a wonderful voice in raising awareness in enlightening on this subject, the documentary he talks about was fantastic and his accompanying book has some positive insights as well.

As he says the book and material are ideally for men who don't have the capacity or belief that they can express, to feel safe and know they are still masculine for opening up, being vulnerable and open, as he says in the clip, and you say too LH, it's the environment we experience and set ourselves in that 'allows' us too or not too.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, that Morgan thing with the baby-carrier was so friggin' dumb. People actually get up-in-arms about that type of stuff? That's easily as bad as the whiney millennials getting upset over every little thing.

Oh no, he's got his child securely strapped to him to prevent any possible dropping under any circumstances, while also freeing up his hands. What a sissyman.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Not entirely convinced the Spice Girls' 'Girl Power' was what Emily Pankhurst had in mind....

Spice Girls reunion: Why we need Girl Power now more than ever

 

[Mandon Knight]

Another 'grey' area for some....

Women reveal how they REALLY feel about men paying for dinner in a fascinating online thread – but who do YOU think should pick up the bill?

 

[Teelie]

That men paying for dinner article is useless. It was on Reddit where anyone can claim to be anything or anyone they want to be without verification.

 

[Schlosser85]

Perhaps not the same dynamic, but me and SO’s typically each pay for our own food. Just seems simpler and less controversial that way.

But with men/women dynamics there’s a whole other societal context.

 

[Donner]

I'd rather split the bill on a date. Too many women expect the guy to pay and too many guys expect something in return for paying.

 

[Laderlappen]

Men are always seen as a problem, even with problems that effects men. From my experience, I know from my male friends that they will have my support. The people who use terms like "toxic masculinity" are the ones most likely to shame men when they are vulnerable.

 

[Donner]

Wtf?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Men are always seen as a problem, even with problems that effects men. From my experience, I know from my male friends that they will have my support. The people who use terms like "toxic masculinity" are the ones most likely to shame men when they are vulnerable.

Some of us don't quite follow what you are saying? Please explain.

 

[Lighthouse]

Men are always seen as a problem, even with problems that effects men. From my experience, I know from my male friends that they will have my support. The people who use terms like "toxic masculinity" are the ones most likely to shame men when they are vulnerable.

Pure BS. Calling toxic masculinity and the patriarchal system a problem is not the same as "men are to blame".

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Men are always seen as a problem, even with problems that effects men. From my experience, I know from my male friends that they will have my support. The people who use terms like "toxic masculinity" are the ones most likely to shame men when they are vulnerable.

Still waiting on that clarification.

 

[jolldan]

Another 'grey' area for some....

Women reveal how they REALLY feel about men paying for dinner in a fascinating online thread – but who do YOU think should pick up the bill?

Yeah not buying it to that article in the slightest lol, I have never took a woman out to dinner for the first time and she offered to split the bill (and I wouldn't expect her to), some never got a second date some I dated for months after. In my mind the first date has especially if you go for a meal has always been paid for by the guy, its not a bad thing its not sexist its just how its always been since I've grown up and I offer any man to invite a girl out then at the end of the meal ask for half the check, see how quickly that kills the mood lol.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, kinda with you there. I mean, I guess if she wants to pay for hers that's one thing, but a dude who doesn't offer/assume he'll be paying is pretty much a schmuck. Guess it's probably considered old fashioned or "gender problematic" or whatever-the-**** in 2018 now, but seems pretty basic social interaction especially if he's the one who's asked her out.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Another article on the date paying debate....

'Why most men should pay on first dates'

 

[MaceB]

Yeah not buying it to that article in the slightest lol, I have never took a woman out to dinner for the first time and she offered to split the bill (and I wouldn't expect her to), some never got a second date some I dated for months after. In my mind the first date has especially if you go for a meal has always been paid for by the guy, its not a bad thing its not sexist its just how its always been since I've grown up and I offer any man to invite a girl out then at the end of the meal ask for half the check, see how quickly that kills the mood lol.

A cultural mandate that a certain gender should pay for the first date, is by definition, sexism. You can agree with it in this case, but it is sexism nonetheless. Why should I have to pay? We just met... It's my job to woo her? Why isn't she trying to woo me? Does she have a job?

Now, I agree with you that 9 out of 10 women will expect a man to pick up the check on the first date. And if I want a second date, then I better pick up that check, but it's still blatantly sexist. The fact that you were raised into this behavior makes it more inherently sexist, not less. It demonstrates how you've been taught that gender roles are concrete and how those beliefs are passed on, from one generation to the next.

 

[CJ]

Eh. This is one extremely rare occurence where I have to side with the feminists. (Can't believe I just said that) Paying for the meal is just the gentlemanly thing to do. Also, if the guy was the one who arranged the date, then it even moreso falls on him to pick up the check.

I would feel like a mooch if I didn't pay for the meal. Not saying a guy should pay all the time though.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Society hasn't figured out how masculine a man should be. We do prefer men to be more masculine than the average rather than less. Yet people will jump on a man if he is too much one or the other.

Years ago I worked in a factory, which was obviously a very macho environment. My coworkers were the stereotypical loud, racist, homophobic types. They loved ripping me a new one every chance they got because I was quiet and a virgin. A few months later I went back to college and a teacher (I was an education major and was doing an internship) didn't like me because I am a man. She just had catty, scathing things to say purely out of misplaced anger. The yo-yo change was amazing.

Even now my wife tells me how her family and her dad are so much more masculine than I am...but she hates her dad because he is a macho, misogynistic ass.