The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - - - Part 13

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It's a messy situation.

Yeah. The Star Wars aspect of it being relatively trivial compared to the larger issues that are playing out over and over in our culture at the moment. One can find a similar dynamic all over the place. Star Wars right now is just one small battleground.

The internet and social media playing such a central role creeps me out a bit. I grew up when the internet was becoming a thing, and there was a period when this trollish behavior online would have been a very marginal phenomenon. It existed, but it wasn't important. Now it feels like its the center of the culture.

I can't say I envy the people writing episode 9. They will probably be under significant pressure to smooth things over, but they can't cave in to the most toxic parts of fandom, or even be perceived as doing that.
 
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Yeah honestly this is widespread among a lot of FANDOMS. Damn shame
 
Yeah, when you look at fandoms in general, this isn't a surprise. With this, we're dealing with a fandom that hated on a little kid who grew to have disdain towards Star Wars. And that was a white boy. For Tran she's got to deal with being an Asian woman and the **** that comes with that from some fans.
 
Good god I feel bad for Rian lately too. The Tran abuse is obviously worse given the straying from actual stuff regarding the movie to who she is personally, but the stuff with Johnson is messed-up too.

I mean, imagine George in this situation, dealing with these people. You think Rian's "disrespectful", losers? George would have dropped the "parent's-basement-dwelling-social-******s" thing long ago with all of you. And he too, is basically a nice guy.

Rian though just comes off as basically the introverted meek-mannered sweet guy who likes to take the high road. Wish he'd just grow a pair and tell this half (less?) of the fandom to shove it. "Please don't turn up to see the spinoff trilogy, you won't enjoy yourself", the works.
 
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Rian to me has that quality of feeling like a guy you know. He just comes across like he could be one of my smart, dorky friends that loves movies. With him, it felt like "one of us" got to sneak in there and make a Star Wars film. And as someone that's an aspiring creative in film, it was inspirational for me to see "one of us" rise to from doing a $500,000 indie film to the biggest franchise in the world.

That's why it's been so disheartening to see him become so vilified. And like that article said, even though I'm not personally a big fan of Zack Snyder's work, the same applies there. People were pretty brutal to him, including film bloggers. But somehow, the way these people are acting now seems like an escalation from that.

I mean...I saw a comment in a Twitter thread about the KMT situation, and some knob commented "Yeah it's not her fault Rose was a terrible character, people should be harassing Ruin Johnson instead." I don't know what else to say, these people just suck. There's no way around it. They suck at life.
 
I agree. You're allowed to hate TLJ if that is your opinion. But when you start stalking the people who made the movie out of revenge for characters that don't actually exist, then you're an idiot and I hope karma strikes you hard. Rian Johnson didn't work for years to make a movie just to ruin your life. He felt like he was making the best Episode VIII that he could. You don't spend years of your life to make a movie that intentionally sucks. If it didn't turn out how you wanted, I am sorry you didn't enjoy the movie, but at the same time...get over it. It's a movie. We can intellectually debate the movie all day long. But the trolling is inexcusable and makes you a sad, pathetic person.
 
I agree. You're allowed to hate TLJ if that is your opinion. But when you start stalking the people who made the movie out of revenge for characters that don't actually exist, then you're an idiot and I hope karma strikes you hard. Rian Johnson didn't work for years to make a movie just to ruin your life. He felt like he was making the best Episode VIII that he could. You don't spend years of your life to make a movie that intentionally sucks. If it didn't turn out how you wanted, I am sorry you didn't enjoy the movie, but at the same time...get over it. It's a movie. We can intellectually debate the movie all day long. But the trolling is inexcusable and makes you a sad, pathetic person.

A-men.
 
I agree. You're allowed to hate TLJ if that is your opinion. But when you start stalking the people who made the movie out of revenge for characters that don't actually exist, then you're an idiot and I hope karma strikes you hard.
"Idiot" is not the word I'd use.

"Life loser." There's the ticket.
 
I agree. You're allowed to hate TLJ if that is your opinion. But when you start stalking the people who made the movie out of revenge for characters that don't actually exist, then you're an idiot and I hope karma strikes you hard. Rian Johnson didn't work for years to make a movie just to ruin your life. He felt like he was making the best Episode VIII that he could. You don't spend years of your life to make a movie that intentionally sucks. If it didn't turn out how you wanted, I am sorry you didn't enjoy the movie, but at the same time...get over it. It's a movie. We can intellectually debate the movie all day long. But the trolling is inexcusable and makes you a sad, pathetic person.

Itd be nice if fans in general from all of these bat**** film fandoms would come to the realization that they dont have to like every single movie in a franchise and it isnt the end of the ****ing world when they dont like a film. It's not the studios or the creators or the producers or the actors job to make sure every single person likes every single film in a franchise. It's not really reasonable or realistic for a fan to demand that every star wars film should be aligned with exactly what he or she wants. It's not reasonable for a fan to demand that every star wars film pleases them personally. At some point that person needs to accept that that just isnt going to happen and that they cant take it so damn personally when they dont like a film. They need to realize that it's not only about them and what they want every single time. If a person doesnt like TLJ they should move on, and see what Episode 9 is. If 9 doesnt please them then move on and see what Star Wars has to offer next. Just like with any on going series or franchise. It doesnt have to be a one strike and they're out rule.
 
Rian to me has that quality of feeling like a guy you know. He just comes across like he could be one of my smart, dorky friends that loves movies. With him, it felt like "one of us" got to sneak in there and make a Star Wars film. And as someone that's an aspiring creative in film, it was inspirational for me to see "one of us" rise to from doing a $500,000 indie film to the biggest franchise in the world.

That's why it's been so disheartening to see him become so vilified. And like that article said, even though I'm not personally a big fan of Zack Snyder's work, the same applies there. People were pretty brutal to him, including film bloggers. But somehow, the way these people are acting now seems like an escalation from that.

I mean...I saw a comment in a Twitter thread about the KMT situation, and some knob commented "Yeah it's not her fault Rose was a terrible character, people should be harassing Ruin Johnson instead." I don't know what else to say, these people just suck. There's no way around it. They suck at life.

At times this sort of stuff makes me think I should avoid making movies with gigantic fanbases if I get to where I want to be in life, especially stuff like Star Wars and comics. It's just nuts how these people are being treated. I mean I hate what Snyder did with my favorite characters for example but acting like an emotional terrorist/scumbag and trying to make these people suffer, especially in the childish manner we've seen here is just ridiculous.
 
Itd be nice if fans in general from all of these bat**** film fandoms would come to the realization that they dont have to like every single movie in a franchise and it isnt the end of the ****ing world when they dont like a film. It's not the studios or the creators or the producers or the actors job to make sure every single person likes every single film in a franchise. It's not really reasonable or realistic for a fan to demand that every star wars film should be aligned with exactly what he or she wants. It's not reasonable for a fan to demand that every star wars film pleases them personally. At some point that person needs to accept that that just isnt going to happen and that they cant take it so damn personally when they dont like a film. They need to realize that it's not only about them and what they want every single time. If a person doesnt like TLJ they should move on, and see what Episode 9 is. If 9 doesnt please them then move on and see what Star Wars has to offer next. Just like with any on going series or franchise. It doesnt have to be a one strike and they're out rule.

Agreed! One of my greatest examples for me is Transformers. I love the Transformers property. I loathe the Bay films. Am I sending death threats or wishing Bay harm for making garbage cinema? No. Sure if you ask I will tell you in great detail everything I hate about those films and my preference has always been for Bay to stop (which is FINALLY happening it seems). But did the existence of his garbage ruin my life? No. I complained and moved on. Do I wish harm upon Josh Trank for his trash Fan4stic movie that ruined the reputation of one of my favorite comic properties? No. I complained and moved on.

Star Wars is not a religion. It's a fictional property. Luke Skywalker isn't real. I love Luke Skywalker (he is my favorite Star Wars characters), but Rian Johnson's portrayal of him is not something that should ruin your life. If it does, then your life sucks to begin with because if some Star Wars films are all you have, then you don't have much.
 
There's no reasoning with those people, they're completely delusional... they believe they're fighting in a war for the soul of Star Wars/comics/videogames/Western civilization etc. against the evil SJWs/feminists/globalists etc. and there's very little that can be done to change their minds.

As defeatist as this may sound, I think we should just accept that those toxic people have now become an integral part of online fandoms. We can denounce them, we can shun them, but none of that will make them go away.
 
At times this sort of stuff makes me think I should avoid making movies with gigantic fanbases if I get to where I want to be in life, especially stuff like Star Wars and comics. It's just nuts how these people are being treated. I mean I hate what Snyder did with my favorite characters for example but acting like an emotional terrorist/scumbag and trying to make these people suffer, especially in the childish manner we've seen here is just ridiculous.

That's how I feel man. I'm not really an aspiring director per se, but I work closely as a producer and composer on short films with a friend of mine who's a very talented filmmaker with big aspirations. And I tell him all the time, you'd be crazy to ever do any type of franchise property if you ever ended up in that position. I know you need a thick skin to put yourself out there in any creative field. It's a given that some people will hate your work. But I don't think dealing with constant, personal assaults should be part of the territory, and that's sadly the world we live in now.

I really think a lot of these fans out there have a misunderstanding of what the creative process is. You're not going in there and intentionally trying to hurt people's feelings. You're not even necessarily just trying to go in and satisfy your own inner fan fiction. I'm sure Rian Johnson is the type of fan who, had he not been involved with the franchise, would've been cheering along with everyone else if at the end of TFA Rey handed Luke the saber and he just ignited it and said "lez do thizzz", cut to credits.

But if you're good at what you do, you take your craft seriously, which I believe Johnson is, you're a slave to story. You're trying to find where the story and characters are telling you they want to go. And you're hoping that leads to some interesting places that will take the audience on a ride that feels unpredictable, yet somehow inevitable. That's the job. Especially in his case where he was telling only the middle chapter of a 3 part story. His job was to crack that story as he saw it, write something that he believed he could execute on screen, and something that was ultimately going to be able to get the approval of Disney and Lucasfilm and fit into this larger mythology. And in the case of Star Wars, both he and JJ are faced with the monumental task of adding more story to this borderline sacred cultural juggernaut that already had a perfectly satisfying ending in 1983. It's no easy task, and I think both of them handled it with a pretty remarkable amount of poise and grace considering what they were up against and all the backlash they had to know they were going to get from the word go.

You're absolutely free to disagree with the conclusions he arrived at, but this presumption of bad faith on his part is where it all goes awry and I begin to question how much some of these people have considered what the creative process is actually all about. And that's especially apparent to me when fans say Rian was just giving JJ the finger with TLJ and that's where all the creative decisions were stemming from. It's an incredibly misguided way to look at it, IMO.

I mean, sure, it would've been very easy for this whole trilogy to be something extremely safe that preserved the OT in amber. To me though, the OT is the OT because those movies told a great story that was unafraid to challenge the audience's conceptions about it along the way. How can Star Wars ever truly be essential myth again if it's not willing to still do that thing?

This is why I have to admire TLJ. Even if I don't agree with every choice or it's not how I would've written it. In fact in some cases, it did the exact opposite of what I wanted. But it showed a level of boldness that gave me hope for where the franchise could go in the future, and that went a long way for me.
 
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iqrUYmE.jpg
 
So this was trending heavily on Twitter today.

https://***********/hashtag/FanArtforRose?src=hash

I'm seriously in "Screw the fandom" mode right now but this kind of thing gives me renewed hope.
 
I mean, the only excuse I can find is that these people are underage, and they’ll grow out of it. When I was younger I revolved my life around comic book movies, and Star Wars. But I’m nearing my late twenties now. I still love Star Wars, and I still read comics, my favorite game of all time is KOTOR, and I still love collecting figures. I understand that these fictional universes are an important part of people’s lives. But I just can’t imagine getting soo mad about the ninth Star Wars movie. I’ve got bills to pay, family to take care of. There are real things to be angry about. I understand being frustrated with a movie, and venting criticism in a constructive and respectful way. That’s why we’re all here. But if you base your life around hating fictional beings, or claiming real life people ruined your childhood, or a movie has ruined your life, and putting energy into harassing creatives, be it from this franchise, the MCU, or the DCEU, I can’t imagine you must have too many people or things in your life to worry about.
 




"B-b-but Mark REALLY agrees with us! Disney made him to this under duress, to make themselves look good, Luke Skywalker supporting TLJ and the people in it! What? N-no, I'm not insane. Give me back my tinfoil hat."
 
At times this sort of stuff makes me think I should avoid making movies with gigantic fanbases if I get to where I want to be in life, especially stuff like Star Wars and comics. It's just nuts how these people are being treated. I mean I hate what Snyder did with my favorite characters for example but acting like an emotional terrorist/scumbag and trying to make these people suffer, especially in the childish manner we've seen here is just ridiculous.

I know that some great talents will never be in some of my favorite franchises simply because of how insane fandoms are. They dont want to complicate their life with that insanity. They dont want to put themselves and their families and friends at risk. And that's ****ing sad that they even have to worry about that. Look at what Ben Affleck has had to put up with. Look at what Rian Johnson and Kelly Marie Tran have had to deal with. Look at what Leslie Jones had to deal with after she was in the Ghostbuster reboot. After seeing that, if I was an actor, I'd avoid acting in films like star wars simply because I wouldn't want to have that insane fandom harassing me. I wish the crazies would realize that they are scaring away talented actors and filmmakers that might have otherwise worked on star wars.
 
And those are all adults, imagine being Jake Lloyd if Phantom Menace came out today.
 
Jesus, I don't even want to think about that.

Even Natalie & Hayden, they'd endure hell now. And it was bad enough back then.
 
Yeah, this got out of hand pretty quick. The boycott, I understood that. But this? Nah. No need at all for this. I really did not like her character, but going out of your way to make someone feel bad is low.

Also I'm seeing more articles about KK leaving now.
 
And those are all adults, imagine being Jake Lloyd if Phantom Menace came out today.

What Ive read about his life after TPM it was pretty awful. He was ridiculed and basically became an object of scorn wherever he went. Frankly it's a wonder he didnt end up hurting himself to escape it. Kids are emotionally vulnerable enough without having to deal with thousands or millions of pissed off crazy star wars fans. These days it's even worse so it a small wonder that any parents let their young children act in major franchises like star wars. .
 
Boycotts are ridiculous too, Karealia. Tomayto tomahto, it's the same people doing both.
 
If Feige didn't leave after the Iron Man 3/Dark World combo I don't see why Kennedy should after TLJ/Solo. Can we at least wait to see how Episode IX performs before we start calling for her head?
 
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