The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - - - Part 13

[Aximili86]

Iron Man 3 made crazyballs money though. You're right in that a bomb or a couple of bombs isn't reason to can the head of the company, but Iron Man 3 isn't a great example. 80% with critics and 1.2 billion a failure does not make, backlash among a certain segment of the fanbase means nothing.

 

[Abudefduf]

Well, that's why I compared it to The Last Jedi. It's a very similar situation.

 

[Aximili86]

Well, I guess. Only TLJ made a little less than expected and IM3 made a lot more than expected.

 

[Spider-Fan]

IM3 had much better legs than TLJ. Also, IM3 was at no point seen as a disappointing performance. It going from a 600mil WW IM2 to making the highest grossing solo superhero film ever at the time was a pretty big win.

 

[Abudefduf]

That's true, there's no denying that TLJ was a divisive movie. Doesn't change the fact that it still was a critical success and that it made a ton of money. I still believe that Kennedy/Disney can turn things around.

 

[Aximili86]

Other than the Solo box office, there's really nothing to "turn around". The company's still a stellar success overall and each of the movies have been at the very least critically-solid (the two saga films moreso).

 

[Mjölnir]

Other than the Solo box office, there's really nothing to "turn around". The company's still a stellar success overall and each of the movies have been at the very least critically-solid (the two saga films moreso).

I disagree. What they need to turn around is the downward trend, which is accompanied by that even larger outlets are recognizing the divisive fanbase at the moment, which is further bad PR. TLJ's opening weekend shows that the hype was very close to the same as it was for TFA, yet it fell far below expectations due to poor legs, which means that it failed to capitalize on that insane hype. The sales of toys etc have also gone down significantly. Anyone that knows the first thing about business economy knows that it's all about meeting, or exceeding, expectations. It's not enough just to make some money, that's thinking for common people's personal economy.

Solo is of course a disaster, so it's on a different scale than TLJ, but the Star Wars brand was the biggest out there and now it's starting to lose some of it's shine. If the Star Wars brand was listed on the stock exchange the price would have dropped significantly in the last 7 months. That's what they want to turn around. Get rid of the downward trend and make Star Wars the clear top franchise again, while the damage is still relatively small.

 

[Aximili86]

The point is, a single data-entry does not a trend make. If the anthologies begin failing as a theme, and if IX does worse than VIII, there'll be something to base this on.

But 3 successes (one of them mega-huge, one of them lesser-than yet still huge, one of them about as-expected) and 1 cluster****, you're not there yet.

 

[Mjölnir]

The point is, a single data-entry does not a trend make. If the anthologies begin failing as a theme, and if IX does worse than VIII, there'll be something to base this on.

But 3 successes (one of them mega-huge, one of them lesser-than yet still huge, one of them about as-expected) and 1 cluster****, you're not there yet.

There's two entries. TLJ dropping much larger to TFA than the hype level suggested, and Solo dropping a lot from RO despite being a far more recognizable IP. And again, TLJ is only a direct success if it met expectations. It didn't.

I also clearly said that they want to turn this trend while the effects are small. It would be absurdly idiotic to just wait and see if the trend continues. That's now how you run a small business, let alone a massive one. Don't assume that the people at Disney are completely incompetent.

And remember, they restructured Marvel Studios after Age of Ultron dropped 7,5% from The Avengers. Because they aren't incompetent. No insane measures, just a course correction.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There's two entries. TLJ dropping much larger to TFA than the hype level suggested, and Solo dropping a lot from RO despite being a far more recognizable IP. And again, TLJ is only a direct success if it met expectations. It didn't.

I also clearly said that they want to turn this trend while the effects are small. It would be absurdly idiotic to just wait and see if the trend continues. That's now how you run a small business, let alone a massive one. Don't assume that the people at Disney are completely incompetent.

And remember, they restructured Marvel Studios after Age of Ultron dropped 7,5% from The Avengers. Because they aren't incompetent. No insane measures, just a course correction.

But they didn't do things like fire Kevin Feige. They just started announcing their slates of films differently and maybe changed up marketing strategies. They didn't make whole sale changes based on AoU.

 

[Mjölnir]

But they didn't do things like fire Kevin Feige. They just started announcing their slates of films differently and maybe changed up marketing strategies. They didn't make whole sale changes based on AoU.

I didn't say that they would fire Kennedy and previously on the board I've been clear on that I'm not calling for her to be fired either, even though she's done a directly poor job with some aspects of her responsibilities.

I'm saying that Disney are guaranteed to be looking at adjustments. There's no way they feel that this has been an OK result for Star Wars this far. That was in response to a post that said things like that TLJ was a stellar success, when it clearly didn't meet expectations (and dropped far more than what AoU did). And as said, meeting expectations is what business economy is about. Failing to do that sends the stock price down.

 

[Agent Orange]

Lucasfilm definitely needs to reevaluate what they're doing with the anthology films because Solo's disappointing box office is complex. It goes beyond a few thousand neckbeards boycotting it because of TLJ. I have two friends who liked TLJ great deal who didn't bother with Solo because quote "I'm not really all that interested in a young Han Solo movie. I'll watch it eventually." Critic Scott Mendelson pointed this out two weeks ago. He thinks that Lucasfilm overestimated the popularity of Han Solo as a character. Fans want unique and different stories with new settings and characters. Rogue One was set in the infancy of the Rebellion but it promised something different and it's trailers were excellent.

There were a myriad of reasons for Solo's lack of success.

 

[Marvolo]

Lucasfilm definitely needs to reevaluate what they're doing with the anthology films because Solo's disappointing box office is complex. It goes beyond a few thousand neckbeards boycotting it because of TLJ. I have two friends who liked TLJ great deal who didn't bother with Solo because quote "I'm not really all that interested in a young Han Solo movie. I'll watch it eventually." Critic Scott Mendelson pointed this out two weeks ago. He thinks that Lucasfilm overestimated the popularity of Han Solo as a character. Fans want unique and different stories with new settings and characters. Rogue One was set in the infancy of the Rebellion but it promised something different and it's trailers were excellent.

There were a myriad of reasons for Solo's lack of success.

They shouldnt decide on anthologies based on which ones will have the most appeal across the whole fandom and general audiences. Worry about that with the Episodes. The point of the Anthologies are to tell a variety of different side stories and do things the Episodes would never take the time to do. Let the Episodes and all the rest of the merchandising carry the franchise. Let the Anthologies be the "indie" films of the franchise that dont just exist to make massive bank. Rather let the Anthologies tell good stories because they can be told. Let the Anthologies try things that isnt a guaranteed success.

I think the mistake Disney has made and unfortunately prpbably will continue to make is throwing massive budgets at both the Anthologies and the Episodes. To do what I suggest above theyd need to keep most of the Anthology budgets reasonable. $100 -$ 150 million tops. Reserve the $300 million budgets for the Episode films. But even if Disney doesnt wisely reduce the budgets of the Anthologies it wont really cripple the franchise or Disney. Look at Solo. Last report I read said Solo could lose Disney $50 million. With Star Wars's revenue stream that loss will be recuperated fast.

The question is whether Kathy and Iger would be willing to stop viewing the Anthologies as potential cash cows and instead just simply let them exist solely because they have a story to tell.

In the case of Solo, regardless of whether the majority of the fanbase wanted to go to theaters to see it, Han Solo is a major character in the franchise and he is a pirate and a smuggler and has an interesting life so putting his "history" on film for the franchise made sense. It was a story that Kasdan and Lucasfilm wanted to tell. That should be reason enough to make that film. For a reasonable budget. $300+ million was not at all a reasonable budget. Disney needs to get that under control going forward.

 

[Agent Orange]

They shouldnt decide on anthologies based on which ones will have the most appeal across the whole fandom and general audiences. Worry about that with the Episodes. The point of the Anthologies are to tell a variety of different side stories and do things the Episodes would never take the time to do. Let the Episodes and all the rest of the merchandising carry the franchise. Let the Anthologies be the "indie" films of the franchise that dont just exist to make massive bank. Rather let the Anthologies tell good stories because they can be told. Let the Anthologies try things that isnt a guaranteed success.

I think the mistake Disney has made and unfortunately prpbably will continue to make is throwing massive budgets at both the Anthologies and the Episodes. To do what I suggest above theyd need to keep most of the Anthology budgets reasonable. $100 -$ 150 million tops. Reserve the $300 million budgets for the Episode films. But even if Disney doesnt wisely reduce the budgets of the Anthologies it wont really cripple the franchise or Disney. Look at Solo. Last report I read said Solo could lose Disney $50 million. With Star Wars's revenue stream that loss will be recuperated fast.

The question is whether Kathy and Iger would be willing to stop viewing the Anthologies as potential cash cows and instead just simply let them exist solely because they have a story to tell.

In the case of Solo, regardless of whether the majority of the fanbase wanted to go to theaters to see it, Han Solo is a major character in the franchise and he is a pirate and a smuggler and has an interesting life so putting his "history" on film for the franchise made sense. It was a story that Kasdan and Lucasfilm wanted to tell. That should be reason enough to make that film. For a reasonable budget. $300+ million was not at all a reasonable budget. Disney needs to get that under control going forward.

I agree 100%. Unless we're talking about a "Saga" film with an overarching plotline there's no reason why the budgets and expectations can't be more conservative. Serenity was made for 40 million dollars and it's every bit the "space western" Solo is from a scope and set piece perspective. It's also a better film.

 

[Kane52630]

Actual garbage pasty fanboys.

 

[Marvolo]

I wonder if that prick really believes that his immature *****ebag behaviour will get a multibillion dollar corporation to "reverse" direction and bring back the Legends? Cause if that imbecile believes that then he's living in a haze of mental illness.

Oh and maybe these idiots should look at the history of star wars. Lucas made Lando black partly to push back against the accusation that Star Wars was all white. He was trying to add a little diversity. So the very thing they are attacking Kelly and Kathy for, Lucas did in 1980.

Frankly I wish Disney would cease production of all Legends material just as a **** you to those bastards. Then while they're at it make a star wars film starring a gay black actor playing a gay character that's trying to save his transgender husband that's played by an Asian actor.

#DownWithBasementDwellingRacists

#StarWarsIsntEverGoingToBeAllWhiteAndMale

#GetOverItCrybabies

 

[titansupes]

Jesus. They're so proud of their bizarre stupididty. I mean, attacking strangers online and being sexists, racist, homophobic nutjobs over old science fantasy books... And believing they're doing something noble and worthwhile the whole time.

That's not 'extreme fandom'. That's just borderline mental illness.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Actual garbage pasty fanboys.

Despite my dislike of TLJ I didn’t mind Rose. And even if I did, I certainly wouldn’t blame Kelly for it and harass her on Twitter. These people are just ridiculous.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Such an embarassing fandom... I hope KK and and Disney doubles down on everything they hate.

 

[Warlock]

Jesus. They're so proud of their bizarre stupididty. I mean, attacking strangers online and being sexists, racist, homophobic nutjobs over old science fantasy books... And believing they're doing something noble and worthwhile the whole time.

That's not 'extreme fandom'. That's just borderline mental illness.

The absolute lack of self awareness in this thread is truly something to behold.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The absolute lack of self awareness in this thread is truly something to behold.

How so? I don't see anyone in this thread spewing racist, mysoginistic garbage or harrassing other people for taking a job in a movie, all I see is a bunch of people rightfully calling out this vile behaviour from a certain section of neanderthal fans.

 

[titansupes]

The absolute lack of self awareness in this thread is truly something to behold.

Oh, I can't wait for this.

Go ahead and tell me how our posts discussing and rebuking sexism, racism, homophobia and targeted attacks is equal to what they're doing.

 

[Boom]

Actual garbage pasty fanboys.

Skin-crawling.

 

[Abudefduf]

Lol, that guy is just an attention-seeking moron with almost no followers. But it's not hard to find people with large followings who preach the same kind of crap.

 

[Elysium94]

Was surfing the web for some cool fan art and found this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU...shop_alternate_episode_vii_grand_master_luke/

Kind of reminded me of the cover of the last EU book featuring them, Crucible.

I'll never stop mourning the missed opportunity to have our power trio onscreen one last time.

Was that really too much to ask?