The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - Part 3

[DarthSkywalker]

It being a generational Skywalker story is more what I mean in terms of the six films being about parents and children.



They really don't. There are no rules saying you can't. Star Wars can be so much than just the Skywalkers. If we look at the original film, it's just a space adventure that had a bunch of possibilities. They happened to go in that direction afterwards, but now you're in the same position to set a new direction. I don't mind Kylo Ren, the villain being a Skywalker, but Rey the protagonist just being another Skywalker is so boring. We have three Skywalkers already (gonna be at two by 9). That's more than enough for a sequel trilogy.

I like how you ignore the woman who runs this show. Who has said, repeatedly, the Saga films are about the Skywalkers. When they released the new title, they said it was the continuation of the Skywalker saga, like TFA was.

 

[jaqua99]

She really doesn't. Star Wars just doesn't have to be about parent-child relationships. That's very limiting. It works great sure, but it worked great for six films. Now let's do something new. There could be something great we don't know yet if we don't try. Star Wars can be about more.

I'm talking in terms of the force. Rey used the force like a literal plot device. Out of all the force users in established star wars users, only Skywalkers seem to be god-people with plot-device like connection to the force.

Again, having Rey be a a random with a connection equal to, or greater than a family born from the force (and said family's stoey has been the main saga) just feels so off, and seems to disregard the mythology of the force.

If not a Skywalker, she's got to be related to a prominent force user. Otherwise, I'll (and others I assume) will have a hard time viewing this saga as fan fare and fan fic. There's an established mythology with the force, and certain qualities the Skywalkers share in regards to their connection to the force. It's been a "Skywalker thing".. having a random share that quality for the sake of story just seems like a disservice to whats been established. And lessens the mythical prophetic qualities of the Skywalker's connection the force because having that inherent connection would no longer be an exclusive thing.

The 5 times I saw this in the theaters, there were lots of negative reactions to Rey's mind trick, and her sudden defeat of Kylo. Each viewing I heard comments along the lines of "is this real life".. "haha what?" And the ever attention seeking guy who said "what is this crap?". Point being, from my sample, some of the GA was initially put off, and I don't think the filmmakers are ignoring that fact.

I'd bet she's a Skywalker. Still can't ignore Kylo's comment, "it IS you" when she summoned the saber. How could he know who she was?

 

[Marvolo]

The novel explains what Kylo meant when he said that to Rey. Originally there was a scene in which Kylo and Snoke discuss "an awakening" and not knowing what it was. Abrams cut that conversation from the film, but left in Kylo's comment to Rey, "It is you." All Kylo meant was that Rey was the "awakening of the force" that him and Snoke sensed.

 

[godisawesome]

Another issue with the idea of Rey being unrelated to the Skywlakers comes from the way you can perceive the family in the Galaxy Far Far Away: a family that wasn't all bad, but whom the Galaxy may have been better off without. Vader and Kylo are both complicit in the deaths of planets, and act as primary enforcers to despotic regimes who personally qualify as murderers and war criminals even without that charge. Luke and Leia have done a massive amount of good, and Anakin did end up killing Palpatine, but having Kylo Ren bookend the family story by undoing all their work can seem to kind fo defeat that. If he's the last member of the family, though I'm not declaring that he is, than he tale of the Skywlakers is far more of a Norse Tragedy than anything else, with the heroes ultimately proved kind of impotent against the forces of Fate, or the dark side of the Force.

Unless, of course, another Skywalker character can counter Kylo's impact and make this a full fledged fight over Anakin/Vader's legacy, and how exactly the Galaxy will remember the name Skywalker. And its a bit like you could symbolize that fight by having his grandkids engaged in a Force tug-of-war over a weapon used by Anakin to save worlds and Vader to slaughter children...

And while Roose Bolton is correct in that it seems Disney and the story group don't have any inclinations to reinvent Mara Jade, the broad definition of that character (Luke Skywalker's Adventuress Lover) does play into the clear and immediate advantages of Rey Skywalker over the alternatives. Understand, a well executed alternative to Rey Skywalker could be extremely successful; I'm just arguing that Rey Skywalker is both very conventional (easy to pull off in comparison) and *highly profitable.* People are accustomed to Skywalker protagonists, it easily explains why she's so powerful, why we weren't given any serious story for Luke between the trilogies, why her past is a great big mystery, and even the extraneous consequences of making her a Skywalker have what amounts to successful blueprints on how to get money out of them. Basically, Rey Skywalker promises to efficiently cover multiple backgrounds with one exposition (Luke and Rey), play up the Rey and Ren rivalry along familiar but still new lines, and introduce a character to fill the same already financially successful niche of Mara Jade, this time with Disney money behind her.

 

[Serpico Jones]

Star Wars news net has a story up about the trailer that reveals some things about the Dubrovnik planet.

 

[Doctor Jones]

And we have stand alone films for films starring non skywalker characters. Besides, the Episodes being about a Skywalker doesnt limit star wars, anyways, so it can still be "so much more" even if the Episodes are the Skywalker family saga. Itd not even straining credulity. Skywalker's have kids and are prominent Force users and important to the Jedi legacy. Makes perfect sense that a Skywalker would always be involved with the Jedi and the goings on of the Galaxy. What I find harder to believe is that the Skywalkers would stop being Jedi or force users and would stop getting involved in the fate of the galaxy. If they do another trilogy and a Skywalker is not around Im just going to be wondering what they are doing thats so much more inportant than fighting for the galaxy. If they made Luke someone that didnt have kids that would answer that, but that would completely remove Disney and Lucasfilm's ability to ever have another Skywalker lead character so I dont think they would do that.

There is only two options here: either the Skywalker name ends with Luke or he passes the name on to his child. Pretty easy to see which one would appral to Disney and Lucasfilm and the storygroup. But maybr Lucasfilm and Disney will go the unexpected less financially sensible route. Or I suppose it could turn out that Shmi had another son or the Skywalker line had another unknown male line, but that is a convoluted way to continue the Skywalker name. Easiest thing to do is just make Luke a father.

Nothing wrong with having both the stand a lone films and the episodes do different things. That would make the universe even bigger. There are no rules saying you have to do this and that. They have opportunities to find the next great thing that's just as good as the family stuff and if they keep doing that they're only putting themselves in a box.

Disney just seems to play things safe so I won't be surprised if this will just be another Skywalker story. It's something I don't know even Johnson could overcome.

There are different ways to execute the family angle, but at the end of the day it's still the same idea. I mean are we gonna get six more films about the Skywalkers? Jesus Christ, this doesn't sound stale to any of you?

George Lucas wanted it to be a family story from the beginning. Originally Star Wars (1977) was about a father who went on an adventure with his two sons. He sort of came back around to that idea by making Luke and Leia siblings and Darth Vader as their father.

Yeah and that evolved into something different in the final film. Then like you said, the parentage element came back later.

I like how you ignore the woman who runs this show. Who has said, repeatedly, the Saga films are about the Skywalkers. When they released the new title, they said it was the continuation of the Skywalker saga, like TFA was.

That's pretty broad and was the first film so things can change. Not drastically like no Skywalkers, but it could differ in what she meant back then. But I could be wrong. If I am then it's a shame. They might as well have revealed it in TFA.

I just know if they did something totally different and great people would still love it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Doctor Jones, your dislike for Disney Star Wars is funny because you seem determined to decide that whatever they do, it is has to be considered unoriginal or safe unless they do it your way. Thankfully that isn't the prevailing opinion.

 

[Solidus]

Ah so anything that is "unoriginal" or possibly not good in someones eyes will be Disney/JJ's fault. And all the good will be Rian's. Yeah he got to make the film he wanted to make, and he worked with people he wanted to work with. He would not have taken the job probably if otherwise, he liked what JJ and Kasdan created and wanted to be a part of it.

 

[titansupes]

New from Gary Whitta:

ComingSoon.net: Something I grappled with after “The Force Awakens” is the question, “What is a Star Wars movie?” Right now Lucasfilm seems very focused on mining the Original Trilogy characters and iconography while also introducing new characters and ideas. Do you think there will ever come a day where there will be a Star Wars movie with no Vaders or Yodas or Boba Fetts or Stormtroopers? A story that is a wholly new thing divorced from all the stuff George originated but still very much in the spirit of that universe?

Gary Whitta: I think you’ve already seen us get 90% of the way there with “Rogue One.” Yes you see Leia, yes you see the Death Star and Vader, because those are elements of that story and they belong there, you can’t tell that story without those characters. But for the most part, 90% of that story is completely new characters. Completely new planets and places you’ve never seen before. It’s a Star Wars movie with no Jedi! You don’t see a lightsaber once until Vader pops it out at the end. It doesn’t have any spirituality or mysticism… a little bit through Donnie’s character, but it’s very different DNA to the Star Wars films that have come before it. I really like the fact that we tried to do something different. The next spin-off is ‘Han Solo,’ that’s another familiar character, but I think increasingly you’re going to see… One of the thing things we really want to do at Lucasfilm is create a universe and not keep relying on old legacy characters. We’ve got Rey and Finn and Kylo Ren, they’ve already introduced a new generation of characters. Whatever kind of Star Wars films they’re making 10 or 20 years from now, I don’t think they’re going to be relying on the same legacy story elements as we have in the past.

CS: It would be cool to see something totally new, without the baggage of, “Should Vader do this or should Vader do that?”

Whitta: Yeah, I quite agree. I’m speaking purely as a fan. I obviously have no idea what their plans are for the franchise. I did my small piece of it, but it makes sense to me that you don’t want to keep telling the same story over and over again. You want to tell new stories.

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/826677-future-star-wars-movies?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=future-star-wars-movies#/slide/1

 

[Asharad]

Aftermath really does erase the Thrawn trilogy, the Remnants, what happens to it with Rax, yeah there is not really anyway to connect that.

Yeah, I agree. To bad that Aftermath was garbage. I probably could have liked it with a different author.

 

[Asharad]

George Lucas wanted it to be a family story from the beginning. Originally Star Wars (1977) was about a father who went on an adventure with his two sons. He sort of came back around to that idea by making Luke and Leia siblings and Darth Vader as their father.

I'm so glad that his early concepts changed before the release of Star Wars. Some of that stuff he wrote was

 

[Doctor Jones]

Doctor Jones, your dislike for Disney Star Wars is funny because you seem determined to decide that whatever they do, it is has to be considered unoriginal or safe unless they do it your way. Thankfully that isn't the prevailing opinion.

It's not "my way." Doing something different and new isn't a concept that would or should belong to one person. Finding new ways to tell stories is what drives storytelling and creates longevity. Because God forbid you have that in a space fantasy franchise that redefined the whole idea in the first place.

I'm pretty sure if the past two movies did do these things while telling great stories you would all have loved it anyway. The problem is people seem to just take what they can get and that's the end all be all, the ceiling of what SW can do without questioning what more can be done. The answer is a hell of a lot more. This isn't unreasonable.

New from Gary Whitta:

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/826677-future-star-wars-movies?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=future-star-wars-movies#/slide/1

He's got that half wrong and half right. If Rogue One is seriously considered 90% of new SW then we are in trouble.

Baby steps or shuffling in place I don't know which.

 

[TheVileOne]

Probably, but they wouldnt tell us if she is related to a character we know so its not confirmation of anything.

Spoiler

she's the daughter of a Force tree

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Spoiler

she's the daughter of a Force tree

Spoiler

So what you are saying is Luke is actually Groot?

 

[Asharad]

Spoiler

So what you are saying is Luke is actually Groot?

The only tree left on the island.

 

[GuestStar2004]

By the end of Episode 9 there will be some next generation Skywalker to continue the legacy, whether its ray or kylo they won't cut off the blood line like that.

 

[Tg11]

Rey has to be a Skywalker just has to be

Because then why would Luke's lightsaber call to her? If she was a random character not related to the Skywalker family or related to any past or present Jedi then why would she have such a strong connection to the Force to begin with? Why would she be able to hold her own with Kylo Ren in a lightsaber battle if she had no Force training to begin with? Because she was able to wound Kylo Ren in their battle by using the power of the Force she was able to slash his face and get out of there in one piece

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If Rey isn't a Skywalker, I feel like Rey and Kylo getting together is almost a given at that point.

 

[Tg11]

I think Rey is a Skywalker either she is Luke's daughter or she has to be Kylo/Ben's twin...daughter of Han & Leia and that somehow she was kept hidden

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I think Rey is a Skywalker either she is Luke's daughter or she has to be Kylo/Ben's twin...daughter of Han & Leia and that somehow she was kept hidden

I don't think they're twins. If I'm not mistaken they said they were different ages in the novel. Or it was some other book.

 

[Tg11]

Then she definitely has to be Luke's daughter

 

[Lobo]

She's about ten years younger than Kylo.

I'm a believer in the Luke's daughter theory. I won't complain if she's a Kenobi though.

If she's not a Skywalker I agree with DS that Reylo would be very likely :/

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Most women that have children have more than one child according to statistics.

 

[doobie]

I had a really vivid dream about the movie. In my dream, Rey had a backstory of being a child beggar who was hidden by her gang with Unkar, and the series ends with her and Kylo secretly getting married and her having the next generation of Skywalker children. And they had an epic battle where Kylo secretly came to the good side.

 

[Marvolo]

If Rey isn't a Skywalker, I feel like Rey and Kylo getting together is almost a given at that point.

That would be extremely gross and severely compromise Rey's character. After what Kylo's done over the years any woman that would be with him isn't operating with a full deck. Morally or emotionally. I would hope Lucasfilm aren't dumb enough to do that to Rey.