The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[BatLobster]

Everything still sounding good, feels like a logical progression from Act 1.

As much as the spoilers have gotten me really pumped, now that we're 2/3 of the way through this leak I'm wondering if I should try to show some restraint and see if I can hold off on reading full Act 3 spoilers. I feel like I can essentially put together the pieces of where it might be going from here, but at the same time there still could be some big surprises and I'm wondering if I'll regret it if I end up spoiling the ending of the whole saga for myself. Like when I saw TLJ, I really had NO idea the Force Projection Luke thing was coming and it absolutely floored me. I'd imagine there's going to be something really big like that in the finale here. I have a guess of what it is...but ahhhh.

Anybody in this struggle bus with me? lol

 

[X Knight]

I'm gonna open up for a minute here. I am currently grieving a very difficult loss. I wasn't planning on going knee deep into spoilers for this movie, but honestly at the moment it's become a wonderful distraction and it's one of the things keeping me going during a tough time. I just want to be excited about new Star Wars coming in December. I enjoy this new trilogy, both films. I'm tired of arguing about TLJ, and I think a lot of people are tired of hearing it too. Let's give it a rest and try to see the positive in the situation-- we're both hyped for this thing!

I'm very sorry to hear that. I went through a very tough loss last year (my Dad to an accident at only 63) and hobbies/pop culture interests are really good comfort and distraction from it all. They help get your mind off things and remember that the world does go on for you, even if it doesn't for that special someone you lost. For me, I took up electric blues guitar to fill the void, which was wonderful therapy. Just be wary that your distraction can become obsessive and excessive, although it is a lot harder to send stupid money on Star Wars merchandise than guitars.

To both of you, I'm very sorry to hear of your losses.

I lost my mom earlier this year in May. So I understand what it's like. It's hard no matter how much you prepare for it and life will never be the same. But, you just have to move on and move forward day by day.

 

[Warlock]

@Mjolnir Reborn @Gothamsknight @Slade W Thank you kindly, guys.

Folks, I really did not intend to hijack the thread with my personal situation, but I just wanted to say I am taken aback by the response and support. It really warmed my heart. I know I'm a sap, but this is the kind of stuff that reminds you of the good side of fandom in a day and age where it can be a less and less 'warm and fuzzy' place to be. Thank you and May The Force be with you all.



That's great man. Once again, it just goes to show how wrapped up in our lives and life events these things can be. They help us mark time.

TDK was also the best theater experience of my life, bar none. I went on a first date with someone that ended with us seeing a 2AM showing in IMAX (yes 2AM because the midnight was sold out). Fast forward ten years, she's my wife. And she also happens to be my biggest hype partner when it comes to the new Star Wars as nearly all of my friends have become haters of the ST to varying degrees. She loves TFA probably even more than I did at first, but seeing how much joy it brought her only added to my appreciation of it. We both are on the same page about appreciating TLJ the more we've seen it. Although I'm bummed my friends are being sticks in the mud about the new trilogy, it's also kinda nice to share Star Wars as "our special thing" for the moment. It really sucks that it's come to this, but we've pretty much decided we're not gonna do a big group for our first viewing like we've done for the past two films. I just honestly don't want to deal with negative vibes hanging over my first viewing with my friends mocking and hating on it . I'll see it with them eventually, just probably not opening night.

But yeah, I know what you mean about getting nostalgic for this trilogy already. It really feels like it's become like a tradition. Watching Monday Night Football to get the last trailer...then the scramble to get tickets. Then being around family for the holidays and talking about the movie, and seeing it as many times as you can. That part of the whole thing has become a lot of fun. And we're almost there! Not to mention this time we'll have The Mandalorian to watch in November!

So you say most of your friends hate the ST, would you say they were hardcore fans, or casuals/general public?

 

[Marvolo]

Second act of the JediPaxis leaks are on Reddit.

Spoiler

In addition, he claims the Force Flash Fight is dead.

Add it to the pile of cool concepts that were scrapped in this trilogy.

 

[scarlet-witch]

The second act sounds good (the pacing in this movie seems like it's going to be insanely fast) but the level of detail in these leaks is giving me pause. I hope they're true because I love how much of it sounds, even though he seems to be rehashing a few TFA points.

One thing thought -

Spoiler

I'm heartbroken all over again that we'll never have a scene between Carrie Fisher and Adam Driver. They would've absolutely killed it together,

 

[X Knight]

I'm still not getting my hopes up with all the leaks/spoilers. anything can be posted on the net.

 

[Marvolo]

Its poor storytelling if there isnt a scene between Ben and Leia. They have the tech to make a scene of those two meeting, and the the trilogy and film needs it.

Look at Poe's new Xwing:

Spoiler

Makes me think of orange creamcicles. The black and orange was a lot better.

 

[BatLobster]

So you say most of your friends hate the ST, would you say they were hardcore fans, or casuals/general public?

Eh, it's a mix I guess. I wouldn't put any of them (or even myself, tbh) on that top tier of hardcore fans, but not casuals either. Put it this way, they probably don't know who Cad Bane is, but they know the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Point being we've had plenty of nerdy discussions about the movies. One of my friends was/is a very big EU guy, so he's never been able to get past that "original sin" (in his eyes) of turning those into Legends.

My wife on the other hand, I'd call more of a casual fan (don't tell her I said that ) and she LOVES the new trilogy, has Rey t-shirts, etc.

 

[scarlet-witch]

Its poor storytelling if there isnt a scene between Ben and Leia. They have the tech to make a scene of those two meeting, and the the trilogy and film needs it.

There's no doubt if Carrie was still alive they'd have one, IMO. But it seems like they're so hellbent on not using CGI (which is weird, considering the opening from the leak, they'll have to use a lot of it there.)

 

[Warlock]

Eh, it's a mix I guess. I wouldn't put any of them (or even myself, tbh) on that top tier of hardcore fans, but not casuals either. Put it this way, they probably don't know who Cad Bane is, but they know the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Point being we've had plenty of nerdy discussions about the movies. One of my friends was/is a very big EU guy, so he's never been able to get past that "original sin" (in his eyes) of turning those into Legends.

My wife on the other hand, I'd call more of a casual fan (don't tell her I said that ) and she LOVES the new trilogy, has Rey t-shirts, etc.

Don't worry, I won't say a word. :^)

I'd say your friend that loves the EU sounds more of a hardcore fan than average. That generally agrees with what my circle of friends think. The more they were into it before the ST, the more they hated the Disney films. I had a discussion just last week with two guys who said they aren't interested in Ep IX. As far as they are concerned there are, and only will be 6 SW movies ever. The ST needs to die in a fire, and only George Lucas should ever make SW movies.

I hated TLJ, but that seems like a pretty strong opinion. "Die in a fire". I thought Ep 7 was OK but was kind of surprised by the copying of ANH, and Rey's insanely powerful abilities. My fiancee is definitely more of a casual, and enjoyed Ep 7. I am wondering what is actually going to go into the final episode. As I get the feeling these "leaks" are a mix of truth and lies to keep the audience guessing. I am also very interested in the box office. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Add it to the pile of cool concepts that were scrapped in this trilogy.

It's on the cover of the art book. It's in the movie.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Its poor storytelling if there isnt a scene between Ben and Leia. They have the tech to make a scene of those two meeting, and the the trilogy and film needs it.

Look at Poe's new Xwing:

Spoiler

Makes me think of orange creamcicles. The black and orange was a lot better.

Creamsicles > Halloween

As to the other thing:

Spoiler

They will have a scene. But the scene will be with Ghost Leia. Whether this is living or dead Kylo. To me it is a bit like Anakin and Obi-Wan. Anakin, not Vader, never saw Obi-Wan again. But in death, they are together again. I can see that with Leia and Ben.

 

[BatLobster]

Don't worry, I won't say a word. :^)

I'd say your friend that loves the EU sounds more of a hardcore fan than average. That generally agrees with what my circle of friends think. The more they were into it before the ST, the more they hated the Disney films. I had a discussion just last week with two guys who said they aren't interested in Ep IX. As far as they are concerned there are, and only will be 6 SW movies ever. The ST needs to die in a fire, and only George Lucas should ever make SW movies.

The struggle I've had with my EU buddy is...I get being upset that this thing you invested years of your fandom into gets "cast out". We all have our own entry points for Star Wars. But really, and I've tried to explain this to him, there are so many problems I see with that position..

1. The EU was never canon. So you have people on one hand saying anything non-Lucas is a bastardization, and then in the same breath saying the EU (which he always maintained wasn't canon), should've been used.

2. There are so many different series in the EU, there were internal inconsistencies, and there was no way to honor ALL of it. Likely these very same people would've been complaining that they're butchering the EU if they were doing a direct adaptation of something.

3. Being that my friend and I were born after the OT came out, the ST was the first opportunity we've had to get brand new Star Wars where we don't know where the story is going and get to just go on the ride. Straight adaptations of books eliminates that fun and the chance for speculation.

4. Okay, so now that we've established there was way too much EU to adapt, and a "straight adaptation" isn't the best way to go, we're left with another option. Just cherry pick certain things and incorporate them into the story. Loosely adapt what works. And I think that's exactly the approach that's been taken. Thrawn is now canon. It looks like more EU stuff will be brought into the Mandalorian according to Favreau. And I think there's a strong argument to be made that Dark Empire had a big influence on the ST. Especially with where it seems to be going in IX. I think this video makes a compelling case:



So unfortunately, I think a lot of these fans have just dug their heels in on this perceived "betrayal" too much to see the forest from the trees. And if I were to point out the parallels to Dark Empire (which Lucas is rumored to be a fan of- gave it to employees as a Christmas present), see #2. He'd just say they're butchering it. So there's really no winning. *shrug*

 

[kickass]

Well this warms my heart. The replies talking about the Force totally get it.

 

[Lilbaz]

The struggle I've had with my EU buddy is...I get being upset that this thing you invested years of your fandom into gets "cast out". We all have our own entry points for Star Wars. But really, and I've tried to explain this to him, there are so many problems I see with that position..

1. The EU was never canon. So you have people on one hand saying anything non-Lucas is a bastardization, and then in the same breath saying the EU (which he always maintained wasn't canon), should've been used.

2. There are so many different series in the EU, there were internal inconsistencies, and there was no way to honor ALL of it. Likely these very same people would've been complaining that they're butchering the EU if they were doing a direct adaptation of something.

3. Being that my friend and I were born after the OT came out, the ST was the first opportunity we've had to get brand new Star Wars where we don't know where the story is going and get to just go on the ride. Straight adaptations of books eliminates that fun and the chance for speculation.

4. Okay, so now that we've established there was way too much EU to adapt, and a "straight adaptation" isn't the best way to go, we're left with another option. Just cherry pick certain things and incorporate them into the story. Loosely adapt what works. And I think that's exactly the approach that's been taken. Thrawn is now canon. It looks like more EU stuff will be brought into the Mandalorian according to Favreau. And I think there's a strong argument to be made that Dark Empire had a big influence on the ST. Especially with where it seems to be going in IX. I think this video makes a compelling case:



So unfortunately, I think a lot of these fans have just dug their heels in on this perceived "betrayal" too much to see the forest from the trees. And if I were to point out the parallels to Dark Empire (which Lucas is rumored to be a fan of- gave it to employees as a Christmas present), see #2. He'd just say they're butchering it. So there's really no winning. *shrug*

There was no way that a director was going to beholden by hundreds of books while trying to make a film. I had no problem with them discarding it.

That said. I'm not a fan of the st.

 

[BatLobster]

Well this warms my heart. The replies talking about the Force totally get it.

I never had a problem with it, but I do think a lot of folks are ignoring that the films have drawn attention to the fact that her and Kylo have enormous raw strength in the Force. That is part of the narrative, as well as their bond through the Force. And based on the leaks, it looks like this is going to be majorly expanded upon.

Also, just had a thought as I was writing this...

Spoiler

Just a shot in the dark here...but what if Snoke knew Sidious was still out there, and knew that the power of the dyad was the one way he could come back to power? His "darkness rises and light to meet it" line might suggest that he was aware of the dyad.

So perhaps he knew of Palpatine's plans, and he wanted to "snuff out" the light as he said, thereby taking away Palpatine's chances of ever returning and solidifying his grasp on power. I believe in either the TFA or TLJ novelization it says that he was wary of Palpatine's power, or something like that. Maybe he was paranoid about him coming back but had a good reason to be? Having Kylo kill Rey then accomplishes 3 things for him: It solidifies Kylo as his dark side apprentice, it eliminates the seed of the new Jedi Order and it also prevents the return of the Sith. In this context, it's easy to see why he may have become so cocky and overexcited in that moment to sense Kylo's betrayal coming. He was so close to absolute victory.

Again, just a shot in the dark but I kinda like it. It's possible the movie may not do much to confirm or contradict this reading.

 

[titansupes]

Force power wise, the only one I have a slight issue with is the Mind Trick in TFA. You can get away (just...) with saying she reversed engineered it from Kylo's interrogation, but... It's just too specific and "technical" a thing, y'know? Where as calling the 'saber to her and then focusing on a connection feel more instinctive. I still love the scene, but it does make me go "Hmm..."

That and the lifting of the rocks in TLJ. Not because she was strong enough to lift them, (as BatLobster said, she and Kylo having crazy Force ability is a thing) but because it was played as the climax to a story thread that didn't really exist.

 

[VSG]

How do you learn to use the Force? how do you learn to use the mind trick, the Force push, Force lightning?
I dont think there is a manual XD

 

[Gothamsknight]

Well this warms my heart. The replies talking about the Force totally get it.

This brings a huge smile to my face. These people get it.

 

[BatLobster]

Where as calling the 'sabre to her and then focusing on a connection feel more instinctive. I still love the scene, but it does make me go "Hmm..."

Anyone notice how it automatically autocorrects to "saber" no matter what? So weird.

 

[Slade W]

Interestingly, arrogance and underestimating others is what leads to most villains in Star Wars downfall. Maul could have killed Obi-Wan, but decided to taunt him instead. Dooku thought he could betray Sidious by using Obi-Wan and not expect Sidious to do the same to him. Anakin tried to jump over Obi-Wan despite him having the high ground (in addition to trying many, arguably, flamboyant manoeuvres throughout the fight).Jabba did not consider Leia to be a threat to him. Vader started taunting Luke about how he would corrupt Leia instead of focusing on killing his opponent, which angered Luke and ultimately lead to Vaders defeat. Kylo started talking to Rey about training her and her becoming his apprentice instead of killing her, which allowed her to come back. Snoke was completely convinced that Kylo was going to kill Rey and that he wouldn't betray him, despite him treating him like crap.

I wonder if this trend will continue in TROS.

 

[Frodo]

I never had a problem with it, but I do think a lot of folks are ignoring that the films have drawn attention to the fact that her and Kylo have enormous raw strength in the Force. That is part of the narrative, as well as their bond through the Force. And based on the leaks, it looks like this is going to be majorly expanded upon.




[/SPOILER]

Yeah. Basically , the "where did she learn to do that??" arguement is a result of JJ's own mystery box in TFA which clearly posed questions and inferred that her backstory may explain it. So I can't really fault those who complain about the lack of answers regarding her connection to the force . That one is on Abrams , not the fans.

That said, I can totally believe the most of the GA seeing these films won't have an issue with Rey's abilities because they don't get into the weeds as much as diehard fans do in most geek properties in general, let alone SW. They just go with it.

 

[X Knight]

I will only have issues with Rey's power level and abilities, especially the new power if we are to believe the leaks, if her lineage is truly from some nobody junk dealers.

Not saying a nobody can't rise to become a hero. But it's much easier to accept if she comes from some special bloodline. Otherwise, she really does feel like a Mary Sue, in the sense that she's so conveniently powerful with the Force and skilled in other areas like pilot, mechanic, etc. And even more so if she can indeed

Spoiler

Force Heal

 

[BatLobster]

I will only have issues with Rey's power level and abilities, especially the new power if we are to believe the leaks, if her lineage is truly from some nobody junk dealers.

Not saying a nobody can't rise to become a hero. But it's much easier to accept if she comes from some special bloodline. Otherwise, she really does feel like a Mary Sue, in the sense that she's so conveniently powerful with the Force and skilled in other areas like pilot, mechanic, etc. And even more so if she can indeed

Spoiler

Force Heal

It seems so perfect to me that she's

Spoiler

Rey Palpatine. I'm not sure if they're going to delve into the Plagueis lore at all in this film, but it certainly seems interesting to me that we have Palpatine promising Anakin the power to cheat death and save people from dying, and then of course never shares it. Then 60 years later or so, we reveal that Palpatine has cheated death somehow, and his granddaughter possesses the power to heal.

I'm not sure how that will all connect, but it certainly seems like some type of advancement of those ideas. I mean Rey has the power that Anakin desperately wanted and ultimately turned to the dark side for. So does this mean that Rey has been unwittingly tapping into the dark side all along? Is healing a light side power after all? Is the story of Plagueis entirely BS? What is the deal here!?

I'm really hoping it's addressed in some way, because it seems like that is such a clear bridge to use to connect a lot of really cool things. I'm not asking for it to be laid out on an exposition silver platter, but it'd be cool if there are enough clues left in there to piece together some sort of link here. Especially because the whole concept of this movie revolves around the fact that Palpatine cheated death. And I know it's a dirty word but...canonically, Rey's new powers means she has the power to influence the midichlorians.

 

[X Knight]

It seems so perfect to me that she's

Spoiler

Rey Palpatine. I'm not sure if they're going to delve into the Plagueis lore at all in this film, but it certainly seems interesting to me that we have Palpatine promising Anakin the power to cheat death and save people from dying, and then of course never shares it. Then 60 years later or so, we reveal that Palpatine has cheated death somehow, and his granddaughter possesses the power to heal.

I'm not sure how that will all connect, but it certainly seems like some type of advancement of those ideas. I mean Rey has the power that Anakin desperately wanted and ultimately turned to the dark side for. So does this mean that Rey has been unwittingly tapping into the dark side all along? Is healing a light side power after all? Is the story of Plagueis entirely BS? What is the deal here!?

I'm really hoping it's addressed in some way, because it seems like that is such a clear bridge to use to connect a lot of really cool things. I'm not asking for it to be laid out on an exposition silver platter, but it'd be cool if there are enough clues left in there to piece together some sort of link here. Especially because the whole concept of this movie revolves around the fact that Palpatine cheated death. And I know it's a dirty word but...canonically, Rey's new powers means she has the power to influence the midichlorians.

Spoiler

It will be revealed that Palpatine cheated death all these years by Force possessing R2-D2. He's been right under our noses the entire time!!