The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Fincher]

It wasn't Qui-Gon's job to save everyone. The Jedi, like any peacekeeping organization, would need to weigh their priorities. They could set themselves in opposition with the slave trade, but it would create enemies and might force the Republic to distance themselves from the Jedi, and it would turn the Jedi's attention from other matters such as the invasion of Naboo.

 

[Bobber]

Why?

Why isn't he? He did absolutely nothing of worth in that film. Making weird and unethical choices everywhere he went. "I have a bad feeling about this" "I DON'T SENSE ANYTHING"

 

[henzINNIT]

Pretty much everything Qui-Gon does is downright bizarre in episode 1. It's not the character particularly, everyone is written badly, but he just happens to be making a lot of the decisions and they're always dumb.

 

[fan4stic]

Pretty much everything Qui-Gon does is downright bizarre in episode 1. It's not the character particularly, everyone is written badly, but he just happens to be making a lot of the decisions and they're always dumb.

I don't think they always are.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Why isn't he? He did absolutely nothing of worth in that film.

Well, other than find Anakin Skywalker and put him on the path to bringing balance to the force, which he ultimately does in ROTJ by killing the Emperor.

Qui-Gon created the Skywalker Saga.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Pretty much everything Qui-Gon does is downright bizarre in episode 1. It's not the character particularly, everyone is written badly, but he just happens to be making a lot of the decisions and they're always dumb.

Qui-Gon fixes Watto's dice. He might as well have strangled him and taken Anakin by force. There's some dubious morals there for a Jedi, but I chalk that up to Lucas not really thinking through his writing or its implications, like much of his writing.

But Qui-Gon is more radical of all the Jedi, he strays from the council and wants to train Anakin because he believes in him. Now he's poorly directed by Lucas which results in a more stoic demeanor, but there's a core to Qui-Gon albeit the messy execution. Neeson helps elevate it by just being Neeson by giving it presence and doing what he can. Interesting idea, bad execution which is pretty much the same destination much of what's in the prequels lead to.

 

[henzINNIT]

Neeson really does bring a warmth to a character that is illogical at best, and downright shifty at worse. Let's not forget that Qui-Gon only cheated Watto at dice because his previous plan to just mind-trick him fell through. I don't know if Lucas was deliberately making Qui-Gon so ethically questionable, or if he was just not thinking through the implications of his multiple manipulations.

I don't think they always are.

They kind of are though. The Qui-Gon highlights:

- Identifies poisonous gas (by smelling it?) and responds by turning off lightsaber and holding breath, presumably hoping someone opens the door. (Fortunately the droids open the door.)
- Upon discovering an army set for invasion, he abandons the plan to confront the leaders who control that army in favour of warning the Naboo, by hitching a ride with the army that is invading and arriving entirely too late to give any kind of warning.
- With no time to spare, he decides that he and Obi-Wan should sneak on to separate ships and meet up again on the planet surface, presumably hoping these massive ships don't land on opposite ends of the planet.
- As the droids invade Theed, he befriends (but also kind of hates) a native and decides to travel to their home.
- Steals a craft from the leader of said natives and travels to the capital via the planet core. Surfaces in the middle of the river in plain sight, presumably hoping no-one is looking. (Fortunately no-one is looking.)
etc etc

 

[fan4stic]

They kind of are though. The Qui-Gon highlights:

- Identifies poisonous gas (by smelling it?) and responds by turning off lightsaber and holding breath, presumably hoping someone opens the door. (Fortunately the droids open the door.)
- Upon discovering an army set for invasion, he abandons the plan to confront the leaders who control that army in favour of warning the Naboo, by hitching a ride with the army that is invading and arriving entirely too late to give any kind of warning.
- With no time to spare, he decides that he and Obi-Wan should sneak on to separate ships and meet up again on the planet surface, presumably hoping these massive ships don't land on opposite ends of the planet.
- As the droids invade Theed, he befriends (but also kind of hates) a native and decides to travel to their home.
- Steals a craft from the leader of said natives and travels to the capital via the planet core. Surfaces in the middle of the river in plain sight, presumably hoping no-one is looking. (Fortunately no-one is looking.)
etc etc

That seems, to me, like not a strong issue. It's not like he can kill the poison gas.

Considering, they'd been attacked by those droids with forcefields, I don't think it was a bad decision to not continue trying to enter and escape instead.

I think they don't actually know where those are going. Why put themselves in a position where both can get caught in the same place if they do?

I think he used that as a way to cut through the planet core to get the queen.

I think they gave it to him. To me, the plain site thing is a bit harder to avoid as a whole. I think that may be a not smart decision to pop up like that though, I think fair criticism of a choice there. Though I think Obi-Wan was driving.

Qui-Gon fixes Watto's dice. He might as well have strangled him and taken Anakin by force. There's some dubious morals there for a Jedi, but I chalk that up to Lucas not really thinking through his writing or its implications, like much of his writing.

But Qui-Gon is more radical of all the Jedi, he strays from the council and wants to train Anakin because he believes in him. Now he's poorly directed by Lucas which results in a more stoic demeanor, but there's a core to Qui-Gon albeit the messy execution. Neeson helps elevate it by just being Neeson by giving it presence and doing what he can. Interesting idea, bad execution which is pretty much the same destination much of what's in the prequels lead to.

The movie has Yoda outright says that Qui-Gon was defiant, and before that had Obi-Wan say he didn't follow the code and asked him to not defy the council again. Why is it him not thinking it though and bad execution, when I think, to me, the movie seems to reinforce the idea that the character is that?

I like the matter of fact casual-ness of Qui-Gon. I think, if even in a minor way, it differentiates from the cold-ness of the council in The Phantom Menace.

 

[Bobber]

Well, other than find Anakin Skywalker and put him on the path to bringing balance to the force, which he ultimately does in ROTJ by killing the Emperor.

Qui-Gon created the Skywalker Saga.

Thats more of a plot point than anything to do with his character.
Also i dont really count the prequels as canon, so none of it resonates with me.

 

[fan4stic]

Thats more of a plot point than anything to do with his character.
Also i dont really count the prequels as canon, so none of it resonates with me.

Why discuss it?

 

[Bobber]

Why discuss it?

Because I don't think Qui Gon is a good character. I barely think he's a character. I can have my opinion about that.

 

[Fincher]

Qui-Gon fixes Watto's dice. He might as well have strangled him and taken Anakin by force. There's some dubious morals there for a Jedi, but I chalk that up to Lucas not really thinking through his writing or its implications, like much of his writing.

I wouldn't say fixing dice and strangling someone are morally equivalent, but also it's possible to not be perfectly honest or law-abiding but to take a pragmatic approach to it. Making dice turn a little has plausible deniability, so it won't blow back on the Jedi in any significant way.

Now if you're saying that the Council wouldn't approve of his actions, that's entirely possible. I would say it's to the benefit of the trilogy that not every Jedi but Anakin is a consummate Jedi. It would make it more boring (and The Phantom Menace was boring enough at times without the two leads being basically the same), and it's not like Anakin was the first Jedi to fall to the Dark Side (Count Dooku). There has to be cracks in the system.

 

[Marvolo]

Qui-Gon fixes Watto's dice. He might as well have strangled him and taken Anakin by force. There's some dubious morals there for a Jedi, but I chalk that up to Lucas not really thinking through his writing or its implications, like much of his writing.

But Qui-Gon is more radical of all the Jedi, he strays from the council and wants to train Anakin because he believes in him. Now he's poorly directed by Lucas which results in a more stoic demeanor, but there's a core to Qui-Gon albeit the messy execution. Neeson helps elevate it by just being Neeson by giving it presence and doing what he can. Interesting idea, bad execution which is pretty much the same destination much of what's in the prequels lead to.

Considering Anakin was enslaved Quigon would have been justified in strangling Watto and freeing Anakin by force. But the Force allowed Quigon to take a none violent approach so that was good.

 

[Fincher]

Considering Anakin was enslaved Quigon would have been justified in strangling Watto and freeing Anakin by force. But the Force allowed Quigon to take a none violent approach so that was good.

Sure, that too. At the same time, I don't know what the Jedi policies are on violating local customs/law, so he may well be stepping out of line there.

I think it helps to think of Qui-Gon like an employee who's been working at a company a long time and knows the difference between what he's supposed to be doing and what he can get away with. He's not some loose cannon, so the Council put up with it. He just cuts through the b******t. So Obi-Wan is the new guy at the factory who's gone through orientation and thinks he has to follow all the rules, and Qui-Gon's like, "Nah, don't worry so much about it. No one's watching right now. Just don't go overboard with it."

He doesn't want to quit. He thinks he can do more good as a Jedi than off on his own, but he also thinks some of their rules don't make a whole lot of sense. They want everyone to be dispassionate and not form emotional attachments, which he thinks is stupid, but he's like, "Okay, fine, I'll act stoic most of the time so I don't get hassled, but this kid's pretty cool, so I'll convince them to let me train him, and then I'll lowkey be his dad when they're not looking. And if they ever do notice and make an issue of it, I'll just say what they want to hear about how they're right and I should purge myself of emotional attachments, and when they're satisfied I'll just go back to being his dad whenever they're not looking."

 

[henzINNIT]

That seems, to me, like not a strong issue. It's not like he can kill the poison gas.

Considering, they'd been attacked by those droids with forcefields, I don't think it was a bad decision to not continue trying to enter and escape instead.

I think they don't actually know where those are going. Why put themselves in a position where both can get caught in the same place if they do?

I think he used that as a way to cut through the planet core to get the queen.

I think they gave it to him. To me, the plain site thing is a bit harder to avoid as a whole. I think that may be a not smart decision to pop up like that though, I think fair criticism of a choice there.

He can't kill the gas, but you'd expect him to do something to escape the poisoned room beside hold your breath and wait.

Two rolly boys are not a threat to two Jedi, and are certainly nothing compared to the entire army of droids that the heroes will have to go through later on. They could have stopped the invasion before it happened. All of the fighting in the 3rd act is to capture the viceroy, something that could have been achieved easily in the first 10 minutes.

It's even worse if the Jedi don't know where the transports are going when they board them. They have a clear goal and a very limited schedule, and risk being galaxies apart by getting on different ships. They have to hide anyway, does hiding in different places even help? They're twice as likely to be spotted in they hide in two places.

They gave it to him after he used his mind powers on the leader.

I'm just goofing around mostly. I think the film is super dumb so the character is a victim of circumstance.

 

[fan4stic]

He can't kill the gas, but you'd expect him to do something to escape the poisoned room beside hold your breath and wait.

Two rolly boys are not a threat to two Jedi, and are certainly nothing compared to the entire army of droids that the heroes will have to go through later on. They could have stopped the invasion before it happened. All of the fighting in the 3rd act is to capture the viceroy, something that could have been achieved easily in the first 10 minutes.

It's even worse if the Jedi don't know where the transports are going when they board them. They have a clear goal and a very limited schedule, and risk being galaxies apart by getting on different ships. They have to hide anyway, does hiding in different places even help? They're twice as likely to be spotted in they hide in two places.

They gave it to him after he used his mind powers on the leader.

I'm just goofing around mostly. I think the film is super dumb so the character is a victim of circumstance.

Maybe he would've, but that's not what happened in the movie itself. I think it's a plot contrivance and a not a well written situation, but I think it's not a strong issue, to me.

I think they had force fields. The normal droids, as far as I know, don't.

I think, to me, based on being crammed in those ships, maybe so. But if they both go on the same ship, I don't see that being as much of a benefit as well. If they go to separate ends, one can get the the queen. While together, if one goes to the wrong end, both go. I'm not saying this was necessarily taken into consideration in the movie itself, but if we're using hypothetical scenarios, I think, to me, it's not necessarily out of the question.

Jar Jar says that it's setting them up. With or without the mind trick.

 

[Drizzle]

He can't kill the gas, but you'd expect him to do something to escape the poisoned room beside hold your breath and wait.

What makes no sense is that not even ten minutes later, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan take out breathing apparatus when they swim to the Gungan city. Why did they not use them when they were in the gas?

 

[henzINNIT]

What makes no sense is that not even ten minutes later, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan take out breathing apparatus when they swim to the Gungan city. Why did they not use them when they were in the gas?

ha True. I think it is entirely possible that Episode 1 had one draft. I mean, who was demanding rewrites from him?

 

[Bobber]

ha True. I think it is entirely possible that Episode 1 had one draft. I mean, who was demanding rewrites from him?

There is actually evidence of an earlier draft that sounds better in a lot of ways.
Obi Wan takes on most of what Qui Gon does in the film, becoming the main character.
Anakin is slightly older.
Jar Jar is still in there, but doesn't talk like a racist cartoon, and isn't half as dumb.

Episode II on the other hand, reeks of draft 1.

 

[Marvolo]

Grain of salt:

First Plot Details For Rian Johnson's Star Wars Trilogy Reportedly Revealed

According to sources close to We Got This Covered – the same ones who told us about Palpatine and Rey’s connection and Hux’s twist reveal as a spy, both of which turned out to be true – Johnson has already worked out the kinks of his new narrative. And though it’s still unclear if the proposed trilogy will ever happen, the director at least knows the story that he wants to tell.

Spoiler

From what we hear, the plot will revolve around the Force-sensitive kid we saw at the end of The Last Jedi and take place long after The Rise of Skywalker. There are now many Jedi in the galaxy, and Rey serves as a mentor to the aforementioned kid. Rey’s own daughter, on the other hand, is the new master of the Sith, leading the equivalent of the Empire in that era.

I just have to laugh if this is the direction Disney and Lucasfilm go after Episode 9.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Grain of salt:

First Plot Details For Rian Johnson's Star Wars Trilogy Reportedly Revealed

According to sources close to We Got This Covered – the same ones who told us about Palpatine and Rey’s connection and Hux’s twist reveal as a spy, both of which turned out to be true – Johnson has already worked out the kinks of his new narrative. And though it’s still unclear if the proposed trilogy will ever happen, the director at least knows the story that he wants to tell.

Spoiler

From what we hear, the plot will revolve around the Force-sensitive kid we saw at the end of The Last Jedi and take place long after The Rise of Skywalker. There are now many Jedi in the galaxy, and Rey serves as a mentor to the aforementioned kid. Rey’s own daughter, on the other hand, is the new master of the Sith, leading the equivalent of the Empire in that era.

I just have to laugh if this is the direction Disney and Lucasfilm go after Episode 9.

That sounds terrible but I wouldn’t put it past them

Just recycling what’s been done before

 

[Blade Hoarder]

We got this covered is a tabloid. They are not credible.

 

[Marvolo]

We got this covered is a tabloid. They are not credible.

A tabloid that's apparently gotten some things right about the new star wars films before. I'm not willing to give Disney the benefit of the doubt about anything Star Wars right now.

 

[henzINNIT]

That story stinks.

But it's not the scent of garbage, it's the unmistakable stench of bull s--t.

 

[BatLobster]

We Got This Covered is by far the worst movie "news" site out there that somehow gets mistaken as a credible source. They literally just make up and run stories. Don't trust them, ever.