The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[BatLobster]

It's funny but the only members of the original characters who survived the ST are the inhuman ones. Chewie, See Threepio, Artoo Detto. Kind of sad, isn't it?

Also the ones that would likely be easiest to bring back years down the line should they make more episodes in the saga. No offense to Anthony Daniels, but they could probably get an impersonator in that gold suit.

The cynical part of me says this is probably why they weren't allowed to kill any of those characters. Not that I WANTED them to die haha.

 

[Sian]

Regarding Chewie, He has a son, so he could have been replaced by Chewie junior. As for Arttoo and Threepio...they were the Skywalkers' droids. Their history is firmly entrenched with that of the Skywalker family. I suspect the reason it was BB8 and not Threepio or Artoo we saw with Rey at the end is that the droids probably won't be back in any future films.
AS JJ himself said the Skywalker saga has ended. Therefore, Threepio and Artoo might as well bow out anyway.

 

[BatLobster]

Regarding Chewie, He has a son, so he could have been replaced by Chewie junior. As for Arttoo and Threepio...they were the Skywalkers' droids. Their history is firmly entrenched with that of the Skywalker family. I suspect the reason it was BB8 and not Threepio or Artoo we saw with Rey at the end is that the droids probably won't be back in any future films.
AS JJ himself said the Skywalker saga has ended. Therefore, Threepio and Artoo might as well bow out anyway.

I know the intention in 2019 was for this to be the end of the saga.

But I just think as long as Star Wars is corporately-owned, once enough years pass...someone is going to have an idea for a new trilogy. And eventually there will be a desire to go back to the opening crawl and theme.

I wish it wasn't so and we could move on, but I just have a feeling that they'll return to that well some day and it'll be the neverending story. Once a generation thing.

 

[Fincher]

I know the intention in 2019 was for this to be the end of the saga.

But I just think as long as Star Wars is corporately-owned, once enough years pass...someone is going to have an idea for a new trilogy. And eventually there will be a desire to go back to the opening crawl and theme.

I wish it wasn't so and we could move on, but I just have a feeling that they'll return to that well some day and it'll be the neverending story. Once a generation thing.

That thought doesn't necessarily bother me. Hopefully, with the main OT characters not included, they'd let the new trilogy be its own thing and not another capstone (and actually go in with a plan). Or if it is about the sequel trilogy characters, then it's about them and not seemingly about new characters only to make it about them.

 

[henzINNIT]

I do not envy whoever has to introduce a new villain in 10, after the ST largely botched it and retconned it to be Palpatine for all 9. The droids could be useful as connective tissue later, as whoever your new characters are can dig them out and switch them on. Chewie lives for ages too, come to think of it. Another reason to keep those characters around.

What would you have thought of Rey Kenobi? From Daisy Ridley's recent comments about her lineage, we can presume that may have been the original intent before TLJ. Personally, I think it's garbage. I'd love to see what JJ's ideas for the trilogy really were back in 2015.

 

[Fincher]

I think Rey Kenobi suffers from simultaneously being pretty obvious (she even has a British accent) and something that doesn't really mean a lot, because Obi-Wan isn't in this trilogy and it would be hard for them to set that up as a significant surprise for Rey. Like, who's Kenobi, anyway?

I had the idea before of Luke talking about what happened with Obi-Wan and Vader and Palpatine, and somehow Rey gets the idea that she's descended from the Kenobis, and she tries to prove it or get Luke to admit it and gets the rug pulled out from under her when she's actually a Palpatine. That would add weight to the Palpatine reveal, but I think her being a Palpatine is just better because it's more of a plot twist and something to mine for drama. And being a Skywalker is something you establish in the first movie if you do it at all. There weren't a lot of available options for her mystery parentage, so I feel like Abrams set it up for her to end up being a Palpatine whether he meant to or not.

 

[BatLobster]

I do not envy whoever has to introduce a new villain in 10, after the ST largely botched it and retconned it to be Palpatine for all 9. The droids could be useful as connective tissue later, as whoever your new characters are can dig them out and switch them on. Chewie lives for ages too, come to think of it. Another reason to keep those characters around.

My thought is, next time...IF there's a next time, they will have the benefit of all the lore-building happening during this period to pay off seeds being planted now. (IE, a grown Grogu could be a character in a future trilogy). It sounds like Thrawn is going to be the big "event' tying a lot of the new shows together, but I'm also interested to see what groundwork The Acolyte may lay in terms of dark side baddies. Although they brought back Palpatine, they still haven't really played the Plagueis card. I think Star Wars can basically keep perpetuating itself by jumping around in the timeline and planting things in earlier times and then pulling those threads later. What they did with Ahsoka, who now feels like an integral part of the mythos is a perfect example. Heck, for all we know she could still be alive post-TROS too.

I'm just spitballing here though. I'd also be totally fine with them just leaving the saga alone, but realistically...I think it may become inevitable, as long as big budget theatrical movies survive.

There weren't a lot of available options for her mystery parentage, so I feel like Abrams set it up for her to end up being a Palpatine whether he meant to or not.

That's kind of how I see it too. He wrote himself into a corner where Palpatine was the thing that made the most dramatic sense, whether he realized it or not. If she was going to be a Kenobi or a Skywalker, I don't think there was any need to make that a mystery.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Don’t care about a new trilogy with Rey, Finn, etc. They already had an entire trilogy to make those characters interesting and they botched it

To be honest, I would really love to see a documentary or a tell all book about what went on during production of the sequel trilogy. Will definitely make for an interesting read/watch

 

[Doctor Jones]

Don't expect that to be through Disney. They're very protective of their brand. So much that J.W. Rinzler Making of Force Awakens book was never released.

These movies are more fascinating in a behind the scenes sort of way than the films themselves.

 

[Sian]

Don’t care about a new trilogy with Rey, Finn, etc. They already had an entire trilogy to make those characters interesting and they botched it

To be honest, I would really love to see a documentary or a tell all book about what went on during production of the sequel trilogy. Will definitely make for an interesting read/watch

I remember waaaaay back when ESB came out, I read a fascinating journal about the making of it, which was also very funny, and a great read.
Problem is, Disney are somewhat close lipped when coming to showing the c*****s behind the scenes, so it probably won't ever happen but still, it would be interesting.
100% in agreement with you regarding the Trio, I think JJ Abrams was hoping Finn, Rey and Poe would be as iconic as Luke, Leia and Han, but they were pale imitations of those characters. Which is a shame because there was a lot of potential. Rian Johnson had the right idea keeping them separate, just goes to show what happens when you indulge your friends.

 

[BatLobster]

I don't think the decision to put them together was the wrong one, haha. They needed to share the screen together at some point and it was the last film.

Actually I think their on-screen chemistry was the best part of the new trio. They definitely had it and I believed they cared about each other. I liked the addition of some tension too, especially with Poe and Finn. Felt much more real brothers than their instant bromance in TFA. One of the shining points of TROS for sure.

The thing that made the original trio click so well, was that Han was...well, kind of a major d***k. The tension that added, especially with him and Leia in the first two films, is what made it jump off the screen and so magical. The cocky, cynical know-it-all was the perfect foil to Luke and Leia's idealism. And it endeared him that much more when he came through.

Contrast with TFA, and basically Rey and Finn instantly become best friends, Finn and Poe instantly become best friends. It didn't feel as earned. It felt like JJ was just trying to say, "Look, friendship! Joy! Here's the stuff the prequels were missing!" But it felt a bit forced. I actually think the way they depicted the trio in TROS was the best of the trilogy, and I wish we had gotten more of that from the start.

 

[henzINNIT]

I can't credit TROS for the trio's character dynamics. I don't think it works as well as in TFA, and Rey didn't really seem to need the others at all, kinda making them feel superfluous. It introduced some tensions in the group, but the absolute minimum, more petty squabbles than actual disagreements. There could have been substantive differences that really matter and forces the characters to grow. Like the obvious first idea: perhaps Finn doesn't want to kill Stormtroopers because they are brainwashed like he was.

I think Rey Palpatine is a little better than Kenobi...? I'm really not fond of either tbh. At least Palps serves to connect Rey to the main villain. Kenobi on the other hand is such a dead end, I cant honestly believe it was considered. I think I still prefer that theory about Rey being made by Palpatine, created with the force like Anakin. Seems a more elegant retcon and ties back into lore a bit. All things considered, I'm still not convinced it needed further embellishment after TLJ.

 

[BatLobster]

I can't credit TROS for the trio's character dynamics. I don't think it works as well as in TFA, and Rey didn't really seem to need the others at all, kinda making them feel superfluous. It introduced some tensions in the group, but the absolute minimum, more petty squabbles than actual disagreements. There could have been substantive differences that really matter and forces the characters to grow. Like the obvious first idea: perhaps Finn doesn't want to kill Stormtroopers because they are brainwashed like he was.

I actually really liked the exchange with Finn and Poe where it's heavily implied that Leia entrusted Finn with the knowledge of Rey's heritage, and then Finn says "that's for damn sure" in response to Poe saying "Well I'm not Leia." That one little exchange managed to deepen Finn's affection for Rey, where he knows the truth but it actually makes him feel more protective of her. It also serves Poe's arc in the film of not feeling like he'll be able to carry the baton from Leia and lead the Resistance. And then of course in the end, he and Finn end up sharing the burden together as co-generals.

It's a little touch, but somehow that one little moment felt like it added more depth and meaning to the characters' relationships than much of the previous two films did for me. I still think TROS had the shell of a good story. I think the character arcs and themes work on paper.

I came across this article recently that analyzes how ROTS and TROS have some parallels in terms of both films dealing with a breakdown of trust between the main characters, but obviously ROTS being an example of where things go wrong and TROS being an example of things going right.

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Fixes a Critical Error in Revenge of the Sith

I think it raises some valid points and it's why I consider the character arcs in TROS to be much stronger (at least on paper), than the ones in TFA. People give Terrio a hard time, but honestly I still think he's a good writer. He just keeps getting himself involved in giant projects where his ideas get chopped down and compromised due to the Hollywood machine, for lack of a better word. I would honestly love to see his full ideas for TROS, as he's even mentioned that he wished they could've done two films. If anything, TROS feels like an overstuffed film with too many ideas, while TFA feels like an empty film with not enough ideas. Both can be problematic, but I'll always appreciate a case of the former over the latter.

 

[Donner]

I can't credit TROS for the trio's character dynamics. I don't think it works as well as in TFA, and Rey didn't really seem to need the others at all.

This. Throughout all 3 movies, Rey more or less played it on her own. She doesn't need the other two and she's always the one that saves the day.

I never felt like Rey needed Finn or Poe and even in the novelization between TLJ and TROS, it's specifically stated that Poe doesn't trust Rey. So at the end of TROS when she hugged the other two, I rolled my eyes. Their "friendship" was built on Rey saving their lives, along with the other resistance members and basically being the lynchpin that holds everything together. Finn and Poe are afterthoughts.

 

[BatLobster]

This. Throughout all 3 movies, Rey more or less played it on her own. She doesn't need the other two and she's always the one that saves the day.

To be fair, even though she beats Kylo in TFA, Finn's stand did help protect her and give her the opportunity to recover and eventually win. Otherwise Kylo had her incapacitated. In TLJ, she does lift the rocks to free them from the cave, but it also took Poe having the right idea for them to meet up. In TROS, we see the three work together plenty. They bail her out on the Falcon after the big reveal with Kyle where she's trapped and unsure of what to do. Rey's importance definitely felt like it dwarfed the other two, but at the same time I have to push back on the "she always saved the day" thing a bit. On Pasaana, she actually messed things up for the group when she chose to stay and face Kylo rather than escape.

 

[Sian]

This. Throughout all 3 movies, Rey more or less played it on her own. She doesn't need the other two and she's always the one that saves the day.

I never felt like Rey needed Finn or Poe and even in the novelization between TLJ and TROS, it's specifically stated that Poe doesn't trust Rey. So at the end of TROS when she hugged the other two, I rolled my eyes. Their "friendship" was built on Rey saving their lives, along with the other resistance members and basically being the lynchpin that holds everything together. Finn and Poe are afterthoughts.

I think the writers had this idea of what a female hero should be, and unfortunately it wasn't realistic enough. Daisy Ridley's natural charm made Rey likeable in the first two films, but even that had worn thin by the time we got to TROS. As a result she outstayed her welcome.
It's a shame because she could have been a great character. But she didn't really evolve, turning instead into an idea, rather than a person.

 

[Brother Jack]

The trio being together and their chemistry on screen is the one and only thing TROS has over the other two films (and maybe the only thing I unreservedly like about it). It made me wish they had been together sooner, particularly in TFA where Poe was sadly barely involved as another byproduct of JJ's poor planning.

 

[Sian]

Actually, Poe was supposed to be killed off in TFA, but asked JJ if he could be kept alive.

 

[henzINNIT]

I actually really liked the exchange with Finn and Poe where it's heavily implied that Leia entrusted Finn with the knowledge of Rey's heritage, and then Finn says "that's for damn sure" in response to Poe saying "Well I'm not Leia." That one little exchange managed to deepen Finn's affection for Rey, where he knows the truth but it actually makes him feel more protective of her. It also serves Poe's arc in the film of not feeling like he'll be able to carry the baton from Leia and lead the Resistance. And then of course in the end, he and Finn end up sharing the burden together as co-generals.

It's a little touch, but somehow that one little moment felt like it added more depth and meaning to the characters' relationships than much of the previous two films did for me. I still think TROS had the shell of a good story. I think the character arcs and themes work on paper.

I came across this article recently that analyzes how ROTS and TROS have some parallels in terms of both films dealing with a breakdown of trust between the main characters, but obviously ROTS being an example of where things go wrong and TROS being an example of things going right.

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Fixes a Critical Error in Revenge of the Sith

I think it raises some valid points and it's why I consider the character arcs in TROS to be much stronger (at least on paper), than the ones in TFA. People give Terrio a hard time, but honestly I still think he's a good writer. He just keeps getting himself involved in giant projects where his ideas get chopped down and compromised due to the Hollywood machine, for lack of a better word. I would honestly love to see his full ideas for TROS, as he's even mentioned that he wished they could've done two films. If anything, TROS feels like an overstuffed film with too many ideas, while TFA feels like an empty film with not enough ideas. Both can be problematic, but I'll always appreciate a case of the former over the latter.

Never caught that line from Finn, and I don't believe I've seen it mentioned before. Interesting. Ultimately I don't think it does much to sway me though. Call me pessimistic, but that line from Finn could just as easily be a nod to his force sensitivity and considering the rest of the script, I find that to be more likely. It would be weird fro Finn to keep that from Rey. Theoretically, I suppose this could be his big secret.

Not a fan of the co-leadership either. A cute BFF moment, but it never demonstrates Finn having something that Poe doesn't, so it only really makes Poe look less competent,

 

[BatLobster]

Never caught that line from Finn, and I don't believe I've seen it mentioned before. Interesting. Ultimately I don't think it does much to sway me though. Call me pessimistic, but that line from Finn could just as easily be a nod to his force sensitivity and considering the rest of the script, I find that to be more likely. It would be weird fro Finn to keep that from Rey. Theoretically, I suppose this could be his big secret.

Well, I think the thing he's been wanting to tell Rey definitely IS his Force sensitivity.

However, the exchange with Poe I always felt like was a nod to Finn knowing the truth about Rey.

Finn: She’s not herself! You have no idea what she’s fighting.
Poe Dameron: And you do?
Finn: Yeah, I do. And so does Leia.
Poe Dameron: Well, I’m not Leia.
Finn: That’s for damn sure.

The "she's not herself" thing is what feels like the giveaway to me. Like he knows more than she does. And then Luke's line later, "Leia knew too" seems to mesh well and call back to this. That's always been how I took it. It's a very small thing but it added signficantly more depth to the Rey/Finn relationship for me. And it would also track that Finn was boasting about being entrusted with that knowledge by Leia, and used that to burn Poe in that moment.

I suppose it's open to interpretation, but it's conceivable that if Finn was thinking he might be Force sensitive and it was something he had talked to Leia about...they could've had other conversations.

 

[Donner]

I have a hard time believing that Leia would tell Finn about Rey's heritage but not Rey herself. That seems quite underhanded.

 

[Sian]

I think JJ was pushing Finn/Rey throughout this film. He very quickly erased the Finn/Rose relationship from TLJ, never showed any romance between Finn and Jannah and his quick killing off of Ben followed by Rey instantly forgetting him threw Reylo down the rabbit hole thoroughly.

In fact, TROS was JJ's love fest for his friends Oscar, Daisy and John. Oscar persuaded him to spare Poe from TFA, which he did then gave him the 'Han Solo' role in TROS. John and Daisy expressed their disappointment at not working together in TLJ, so he rectified that. John said in an interview that he was in favour of Finn/Rey, so he left the door open for that by making Finn Force sensitive, which of course meant Rey would be his teacher. In the Lego Xmas special, that was what she was. I expect Finn/Rey in future comics.

 

[BatLobster]

I have a hard time believing that Leia would tell Finn about Rey's heritage but not Rey herself. That seems quite underhanded.

It's true, but this is also Star Wars. Obi-Wan straight up lied to Luke and told him Vader murdered his father.

The way I see it, I think she knew that Rey would eventually have to reckon with her past, and that it would be her battle to fight. But I could see her letting an emerging Force sensitive know about it, so if in the worst case scenario and she succumbed to the dark side, someone in the Resistance would understand who they're dealing with.

This is just my interpretation though. I could be wrong.

 

[Sian]

One thing I will never be able to accept is Leia being the sort of mother who would send her only child away to be trained by her brother when she could have trained him herself. It completely character assassinated Leia. JJ was so in love with Rey, Rey, REY!!!(to quote Finn's entire dialogue throughout the third film), that he was determined that everyone else should be also, including Ben Solo's mother.
I often wonder if Carrie Fisher was still alive, she would ave been okay with this? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[henzINNIT]

I don't think Leia was 'assassinated' by that decision. It's perfectly understandable to want your son trained by the best, and she never completed her own training. That is clearly why Kylo went to Luke. Parents send kids to boarding schools all the time.

By contrast, Leia training Rey herself was the only option at that time, and they had the textbooks to help.

Well, I think the thing he's been wanting to tell Rey definitely IS his Force sensitivity.

However, the exchange with Poe I always felt like was a nod to Finn knowing the truth about Rey.

Finn: She’s not herself! You have no idea what she’s fighting.
Poe Dameron: And you do?
Finn: Yeah, I do. And so does Leia.
Poe Dameron: Well, I’m not Leia.
Finn: That’s for damn sure.

The "she's not herself" thing is what feels like the giveaway to me. Like he knows more than she does. And then Luke's line later, "Leia knew too" seems to mesh well and call back to this. That's always been how I took it. It's a very small thing but it added signficantly more depth to the Rey/Finn relationship for me. And it would also track that Finn was boasting about being entrusted with that knowledge by Leia, and used that to burn Poe in that moment.

I suppose it's open to interpretation, but it's conceivable that if Finn was thinking he might be Force sensitive and it was something he had talked to Leia about...they could've had other conversations.

For me personally it doesn't add to my feeling for Finn, it just makes me confused about him and Leia's secrecy. Certainly not a first for Star Wars to have characters keep secrets, but this to me makes less sense than Obi-Wan's lies. The Jedi were hoping Luke would rise up and stop his father, and rightfully feared Luke wouldn't kill him if he knew the truth. He disobeyed them and rushed to meet Vader, and that's how he found out.

Rey on the other hand spent pretty much the whole trilogy asking about her family. And then in TROS, she is waved off by her team to go fight Palpatine. It really would have helped her to know the truth.

The trio being together and their chemistry on screen is the one and only thing TROS has over the other two films (and maybe the only thing I unreservedly like about it). It made me wish they had been together sooner, particularly in TFA where Poe was sadly barely involved as another byproduct of JJ's poor planning.

Yeah, despite my criticism in how TROS handles the characters, it was definitely nice to see them on an adventure together. I just wish they wrote better situations for these characters so they all felt useful.