Comics Gerry Conway and Romita Sr. on Gwen's and Norman's Deaths

[Galactus]

You'll find the interview here:
http://www.newsarama.com/TwoMorrows/BackIssue/18/BackIssueGwen.html

 

[shinlyle]

Loved this article.

I also loved how they respnded when questioned about Marvel bringing the Goblin back from the dead. Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought that was dumb.

 

[Dragon]

I like Romita's comment about bringing Norman back. A mistake.

 

[Cyclops]

I felt like the interview was cut short. Where was Gerry's response to the last question? That question most assuredly got more than one response from John, so why not show it all?

Oh, wait, this is Wizard. I understand now why they didn't show it all.

Wait - that was Newsarama? So why did they cut the interview short?!

 

[The Joker]

I like Romita's comment about bringing Norman back. A mistake.

My fav part of the interview.

Norman should have stayed 6ft under.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Romita & Conway = Class Acts.

 

[reallyoldspideyfan]

Hello,

ROMITA: I never told you this in person, Gerry, but I've mentioned it several times in interviews, "The Death of Gwen Stacy" was one of three times that I had been touched very closely as a reader. When I read the second-to-the-last page, where Spider-Man is saying to Gwen, "You can't be dead, kid ... I saved you. Don't you remember? I saved you," that brought up tears. For the same reason I was puzzled about my son's reaction, I get touched every once and a while. Something in a story reaches me and gets me practically to tears, and that was one of them.

I can relate. I grew up reading Spider-man and grew up falling for GWEN just like Peter. Looking back on it, I had a really nice, pretty highschool girlfriend who kind-of looked like Gwen. It is/was a weird thing. You grow up, reading the comics, getting totally emersed in the character's lives. I remember reading the last page of issue #121 and, especially, in #122, when Peter holds her in his arms. I will never forget that image nor the feelings I felt. It truely was heartbreaking...even though they were fictional characters. As a reader, you felt Peter's pain. The artwork was fantastic and the fight at the end was very serious and intense. The issues following that were ones that I can never forget. The change in Peter. We grew up with him.

I do no know if GERRY CONWAY and JOHN ROMITA SR read these boards but, if you do: those issues are a peace of my childhood that I will never forget. Thank you for creating them. They are masterpieces.

DN

 

[Donald Thomas]

Romita & Conway = Class Acts.

Aloha,
Agreed.
I also enjoyed the fact that they both acknowledge the difference between the comic book business back in the 1970's and now.Comic book artist,writers and characters (particularly Spider-Man), have become international Pop Icons.When you remember that Spider-Man was a throw away idea for the last issue of Amazing Fantasy who has become a multi billion dollar character-Who knew they were making history-they were happy just to have a job.But for those of us who were fans from the start, we knew, and we should always keep Marvel on their toes regarding quality writing for the character.
Spidey rules

 

[wolvie2020]

That interview was SPOT ON

They also confirmed something I got a little ridiculed for a while back. When a few of us here were talking about Gwen's death, I said that was when Peter actually becam a man. For me, the origin story began in AF 15, but TRULY finished in ASM 122, when Peter entered the real world, adulthood.

I also said it was the end of the Silver age, the responses to my remarks were not good, so I'm EXTREMELY happy to know that the guys who actually made these stories, not only feel the same as I do, but that was their entire intention in the 1st place, (except for the silver age part.)

You know, I really wish some of the current writers had the correct ideals, concepts, sensibilities, AND guts as these guys. We'd have some fresh interesting stories, unlike some of the repetitive rehashes, and dumbass moves we have now.

I was real glad to see that Romita HIMSELF was not happy about Gobby. Not only was it a horrible decision to bring him back, but REALLY, by now, he should be put in the grave again. Where he should be.

Oh yea, that reminds me... Millar left Gobby kiiiiinda dead at the end of his MK Spidey run, (I reckon Millar wanted him dead, but you know, they made him leave a back door of no body etc.) but he was missing, for sure. NOW, as Norman appeared in CW:Front Line, 1st he was being watched by 2 SHIELD agents, and then let loose on Urich, what the hell is up with this? Bad continuity? Or another, (actually thought out,) sub plot altogether?

 

[spider greg]

Loved this article.

I also loved how they respnded when questioned about Marvel bringing the Goblin back from the dead. Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought that was dumb.

You're definitely not the only one who thought it was dumb. Out of all the dumb things Marvel has done over the years, nothing pisses me off more than them bringing Norman back. It's like doing a new Star Wars movie, and saying "Actually Darh Vader isn't really Luke's father" They ruined a classic.
I have the feeling they didn't show Conway's response is because they can't print that kind of language.

 

[wolvie2020]

You're definitely not the only one who thought it was dumb. Out of all the dumb things Marvel has done over the years, nothing pisses me off more than them bringing Norman back. It's like doing a new Star Wars movie, and saying "Actually Darh Vader isn't really Luke's father" They ruined a classic.
I have the feeling they didn't show Conway's response is because they can't print that kind of language.

You're very right on everything you said there...

I was feeling the whole 'unfinished artcle,' business as well. CLEARLY, Conway wou'dn't have taken very kindly to Norman being alive again/ It was one of the greatest feats of his career for Christs' sake!

 

[shinlyle]

You're very right on everything you said there...

I was feeling the whole 'unfinished artcle,' business as well. CLEARLY, Conway wou'dn't have taken very kindly to Norman being alive again/ It was one of the greatest feats of his career for Christs' sake!

See, it'd be different if the Goblin's return had made a real difference, but it hasn't. He was only brought back to kill ANOTHER character that should have never been brought back. Then, he was killed again. Then, he came back. What has been so great since his return? I mean REALLY great? MKSM#1-12 is the closest thing to a "great" goblin story to come out of that crap. The Pulse was all right, if it hadn't featured the Goblin getting taken down by LUKE CAGe, of all the lameasses...

I just haven't seen anything since he's been brought back to make me think that he should've been brought back int he first place.

 

[Vic Von Doom]

See, it'd be different if the Goblin's return had made a real difference, but it hasn't. He was only brought back to kill ANOTHER character that should have never been brought back. Then, he was killed again. Then, he came back. What has been so great since his return? I mean REALLY great? MKSM#1-12 is the closest thing to a "great" goblin story to come out of that crap. The Pulse was all right, if it hadn't featured the Goblin getting taken down by LUKE CAGe, of all the lameasses...

I just haven't seen anything since he's been brought back to make me think that he should've been brought back int he first place.

Oh, c'mon. Amazing #25 and PPSM #25! Part one was eh, but Jenkins finale to that story was money. Another Jenkins story, I forget the name but it was in PPSM and was the storyarc where he put Flash in a coma. You know, "5 bucks and a pizza says I can" and all that. That was good stuff. And the Pulse story was fantastic! The rooftop convo b/w Urich and Spidey is some of the best superhero writing Bendis has ever done. And MKSM was all right. So that's 4 good Goblin stories that have been done since his return, and those just in the last 6 years!

 

[shinlyle]

Oh, c'mon. Amazing #25 and PPSM #25! Part one was eh, but Jenkins finale to that story was money. Another Jenkins story, I forget the name but it was in PPSM and was the storyarc where he put Flash in a coma. You know, "5 bucks and a pizza says I can" and all that. That was good stuff. And the Pulse story was fantastic! The rooftop convo b/w Urich and Spidey is some of the best superhero writing Bendis has ever done. And MKSM was all right. So that's 4 good Goblin stories that have been done since his return, and those just in the last 6 years!

I don't know about GREAT, but they were good. Still, compare them to the older Goblin stories. What has Norman done that was so terrible and horrifying as:

-discovering Spidey's true identity, capturing, and unmasking him.
-killing the woman he loves.

Sure, he buried Aunt May....show as saved. He tortured Peter after drugging his tooth paste (which is why I don't give that story the level of "greatness"). He put Flash in a coma...which was just recently undone, and has yet to be addressed since. He hasn't made any sort of impact like he used to.

GG's my favorite villian... but he was a much more menacing threat when his legend was concluded. He killed Gwen. That's his lasting contribution. Nothing since has even come close. As for the Pulse...if Spidey had beaten him, cool....but having POWERMAN beat him....LAME.


ps- Love the sig...

 

[Themanofbat]

Oh, c'mon. Amazing #25 and PPSM #25! Part one was eh, but Jenkins finale to that story was money. Another Jenkins story, I forget the name but it was in PPSM and was the storyarc where he put Flash in a coma. You know, "5 bucks and a pizza says I can" and all that. That was good stuff. And the Pulse story was fantastic! The rooftop convo b/w Urich and Spidey is some of the best superhero writing Bendis has ever done. And MKSM was all right. So that's 4 good Goblin stories that have been done since his return, and those just in the last 6 years!

Those stories were mediocre to slightly good at best, especially compared to the original Goblin tales.

Marvel could have told the aforementioned stories with possibly a new villain, or maybe an older one, and they could have been as effective.

Norman should have stayed in the grave.

 

[Cyclops]

Wholly agreed. The Green Goblin works best as either a spectre of the past or a legacy. Why he needed to be brought back is beyond me.

 

[stillanerd]

Wholly agreed. The Green Goblin works best as either a spectre of the past or a legacy. Why he needed to be brought back is beyond me.

Well, the official explanation is that Marvel needed a "credible mastermind" for the clone saga. Unofficially, Marvel quickly realized what a collossal hole they were in and needed a quick way out, even if it did result in the gradually undermining of Conway's classic "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" we see toady.

As for the rest of the interview, although there were quite a few things I've heard about how "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" was developed in other interviews Romita Sr. and Conway gave, there were two things that caught my attention. One was how Romita said that the plan he and Stan had for Mary Jane was that she would mature from her original airhead personality all along. Maybe he's saying this after the fact with regards to how he could never make Gwen and exciting as MJ, but if so, it nicely parallels Peter's own growth and developing maturity. Second was Conway explaning how Gwen's death was a "bookend" to Uncle Ben's, and that the death of the Goblin demonstrated the emptiness of revenge--a lesson that is way too rare in today's comic books IMHO. Also, in their discussion over how the possible deaths of other superheros' villains, there was this:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JOHNSON: I still think it took chutzpah to kill off Spider-Man's arch-enemy. I mean, what would happen to Superman if Lex Luthor was killed off for good? [/FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CONWAY: It would be incredibly liberating. I think DC would finally get back to some serious sales. Part of the problem with Superman and the older heroes, and also with the ones now, is that there doesn't seem to be a sense of consequence to their stories. They're just stories. [/FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JOHNSON: If you hadn't killed the Green Goblin off when you did, and say another writer and artist proposed doing the same thing 15 or 20 years later, do you think they would have been allowed to pull the trigger? [/FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ROMITA: [They would have said, "No,] there are movies coming out." [/FONT] [/FONT]

Right on to both responses.

 

[vegeta21]

I like Romita's comment about bringing Norman back. A mistake.

Kind of ironic that his son drew Norman's big return issue.

 

[vegeta21]

Personally, while I'm not completely against Norman being alive, I think he worked best as the haunting image in Harry's fragile psyche that kept belittling him and bringing him to various mental breakdowns. I'd like to see a story done by a good writer (and if God truly loves me, it would be J.M. Dematteis) write a story seriously exploring Norman Osborn's serverely warped psyche. I'd like to see Norman staring to go through phases of insanity where he start's seeing images of Harry, much like Harry used to see the "ghost" of Norman. Have "Harry" taunt him and say things like "To think I used to idolize you! You're nothing but a joke. You're just a pathetic old man!"

Actually make him a useful and threatening villain again that leaves an impact on Peter's life that'll keep us talking for years to come (in a good way, so I guess that rules out Sins Past).

Or kill him off, but do so in a way that is unexpected, like maybe saving Peter's life (there was once a slightly decent man inside Norman Osborn at one point).

Hopefully by the end of Civil War he'll be used in a half decent way, and more than simply being a tool for S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

[Arcturus]

Norman should've stayed 6ft under, he went out with a bang when he originally died, why ruin it?

 

[wolvie2020]

Kind of ironic that his son drew Norman's big return issue.

I was SO thinking the exact same thing! I think it's quite sad that JRSr actually said he never even READ them. Saying that, you would've thought that JRJr would've said no to those stories out of respect of some of his Pap's fines work.

Damn, never thought about that b4, that's pretty deep...

 

[wolvie2020]

Oh, c'mon. Amazing #25 and PPSM #25! Part one was eh, but Jenkins finale to that story was money. Another Jenkins story, I forget the name but it was in PPSM and was the storyarc where he put Flash in a coma. You know, "5 bucks and a pizza says I can" and all that. That was good stuff. And the Pulse story was fantastic! The rooftop convo b/w Urich and Spidey is some of the best superhero writing Bendis has ever done. And MKSM was all right. So that's 4 good Goblin stories that have been done since his return, and those just in the last 6 years!

Well, while I think those were all damn good Spidey stories, (except for The Pulse story, sorry, that sucked on continuity and rehashing issues,) I have to agree that they weren't anything compared to the previous stuff decades ago.

Saying that, BOTH Jenkins AND Millar's stories, (a death in the family, MK Spidey,) were pretty much efforts to put Osborn back in the grave again. Jenkins story had Osborn blow his brains out, and 'The Last Stand' had Osborn drown and send his death letter to Peter.

But Joey Q LIKES having Osborn around, (once again proving he doesn't understand Spider-Man,) so both stories had back doors for him to come back. 'A death in the family,' showed only birds flying around from the gunshot, and in 'The Last Stand,' there was no body found.

Both IMO would've great send offs to correct an already stupid decision. I REALLY liked the way Kenkins tore into the psyche of Osborn and Pete, of how in a disturbed way they're like family. It was even better to think that things Pete would say would make Osborn blow his brains out.

I really dug the entire MK Spider-Man run, and the letter at the end was brilliantly creepy.

Why couldn't they just keep him dead? Altough, I'm loking forward to Spidey getting his ass handed to him by Osborn just ONE MORE TIME, for unmasking. Maybe NOW Osborn will finally die!

 

[spider greg]

Well, the official explanation is that Marvel needed a "credible mastermind" for the clone saga. Unofficially, Marvel quickly realized what a collossal hole they were in and needed a quick way out, even if it did result in the gradually undermining of Conway's classic "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" we see toady.

I've said it a million times, the Hobgoblin should've been behind the whole thing, if they REALLLY needed a mastermind.

 

[Cullen]

Let me add my voice here: Very interesting article.

 

[Vic Von Doom]

Well, while I think those were all damn good Spidey stories, (except for The Pulse story, sorry, that sucked on continuity and rehashing issues,) I have to agree that they weren't anything compared to the previous stuff decades ago.

Saying that, BOTH Jenkins AND Millar's stories, (a death in the family, MK Spidey,) were pretty much efforts to put Osborn back in the grave again. Jenkins story had Osborn blow his brains out, and 'The Last Stand' had Osborn drown and send his death letter to Peter.

But Joey Q LIKES having Osborn around, (once again proving he doesn't understand Spider-Man,) so both stories had back doors for him to come back. 'A death in the family,' showed only birds flying around from the gunshot, and in 'The Last Stand,' there was no body found.

Both IMO would've great send offs to correct an already stupid decision. I REALLY liked the way Kenkins tore into the psyche of Osborn and Pete, of how in a disturbed way they're like family. It was even better to think that things Pete would say would make Osborn blow his brains out.

I really dug the entire MK Spider-Man run, and the letter at the end was brilliantly creepy.

Why couldn't they just keep him dead? Altough, I'm loking forward to Spidey getting his ass handed to him by Osborn just ONE MORE TIME, for unmasking. Maybe NOW Osborn will finally die!

I didn't think Norman actually blew his brains out at the end of that story, I didn't even think there was a gunshot. When he pulled out the gun and put his head in his hands, I just figured he wanted to die and doesn't have the courage to do it himself, which was why he tried to get Peter to do it for him.

I don't think Norman should have died at all, really. Sure, those recent stories I mentioned were not as great as the classic stuff, but you cannot deny those are good, if not very good Goblin stories that would not have been told if he had stayed dead. For me, that's what it's about. I'm glad Norman came back because I greatly enjoyed reading those stories.

I mean, think about all the characters that are going to die in 50 years, and be brought back. The Marvel/DC characters are never going to get old and die and have their sidekicks take over, so death/rebirth stories are just part of the comic book world, and I really don't mind if the stories are done well.

Look at Colossus. Great exit in curing the Legacy Virus. Superb return in Astonishing. It can be done right. As long as the story is good, I'm cool. Look at Ed Brubaker. He brought back BUCKY, for Chrissakes. BUCKY!!! And he still has his job as a popular comic book writer, because he knows how to tell it right. That's just my opinion.