Gotham Gotham Season 1, Episode 4 "Arkham" General Discussion

This may be obvious, but I was left a little confused. Was the hitman working for Penguin, or is that still a mystery?
 
This may be obvious, but I was left a little confused. Was the hitman working for Penguin, or is that still a mystery?

Yeah,Penguin hired the guys to make himself look good in Maroni's eyes.He poisons them at the end of the episode.

First time he's killed for decent money.:woot:
 
I think he's talking about the stabby assassin, who was killing both pro-Maroni and pro-Falcone councillors. I can't remember any direct reference to him being hired by Penguin, but I could see that happening. There was the exchange between Gordon and Bullock about how odd it would be for an assassin to be hired by both sides, but Bullock just wrote that off as being something that happens in Gotham.
 
Oh,that's right.I don't think we ever found out who the stabby guy was working for.
 
This is getting more and more like the Schumacher films every week. very disappointed the direction this show has taken.
 
I.... I really can't see any similarities between Gotham and the Schumacher films. Especially last night's episode. The show tends to have some cheesy dialogue at times, but there's a difference between that and full-on camp. I mean, you might dislike Gotham just as much as the Schumacher films, which is fine, but I'm struggling to think of any thematic or stylistic similarities.
 
This show is strange. The look is mature, the mood and cinematography all make it look very well done. But the writing at times can be really very sub par.

The Penguin poisoning the hitmen scene, Fish making the two girls fight. These scenes felt really out of place. Also I've found that I can fast forward all the Barbara scenes and miss absolutely nothing from the plot. They seem to just have been written in to try and attract and retain a general female audience.

Kind of dissapointing as I thought last week's episode was a vast improvement. This one was just barely better than the pilot.
 
The fight between the two singers was probably my least favourite part of the episode. Something just felt off about that. Although, I think part of that was intentional, since they were supposed to be thinking "wait, I have to literally fight for this job?". The losing girl taking her earrings off without hesitation did make me laugh. She's ready to throw down 24/7.
 
I.... I really can't see any similarities between Gotham and the Schumacher films. Especially last night's episode. The show tends to have some cheesy dialogue at times, but there's a difference between that and full-on camp. I mean, you might dislike Gotham just as much as the Schumacher films, which is fine, but I'm struggling to think of any thematic or stylistic similarities.
It's all very OTT and cartoony, in a bad way. It feels like reading the funny pages. Every new installment sees the same people in the exact same place. We have our 'what the Penguin is doing now' scene, the 'Bruce and Alfred scene', 'The Barbara scene', 'the villain of the week scene', 'the Gordon/Bruce ''can Gotham be saved?' scene. Not in that exact order. It's just a real letdown. I think most of the regular cast and actual production design are great but the scripting has really hampered my enthusiasm.
 
To me this show is TAS but if Nolan had made that.
 
It isTAS with a bit more cheese. Or with the same amount of cheese but because it's live action it becomes more obvious and not as excusable.
 
You can totally tell that Fish is setting the nightclub singer up to be Falcone's new squeeze. They mentioned in episode 3 that Falcone's girlfriend was mugged and Fish seemed to have something to do with that. I think she's going to try and insert the singer into Falcone's personal circle then have her try to kill him.

Of course Oswald will let Falcone know about this, Falcone will let Oswald live and subtly tell him that he can off Fish (Penguin devouring a Fish) and take her place.
 
I dont even understand what Gordon's talking about when he said Barbara lied to him. Why is it even a big deal that she was in a relationship with another person before him? Did they agree to fully disclose all the people they slept with early in the relationship or something. Doesnt even make sense.

That part of the scene just felt completely off. It wouldve worked much better and actually made sense if Jim was pissed that Montoya was coming to Barbara and telling her about Cobblepot which wouldve put her in danger.
 
I think he's talking about the stabby assassin, who was killing both pro-Maroni and pro-Falcone councillors. I can't remember any direct reference to him being hired by Penguin, but I could see that happening. There was the exchange between Gordon and Bullock about how odd it would be for an assassin to be hired by both sides, but Bullock just wrote that off as being something that happens in Gotham.

Yeah, I was referring to the stabby assassin. If it was Penguin who hired him, then what were his motivations. That's what makes me think it's related to the Waynes' murder, as we even have a scene with Bruce mentioning to Alfred that he's looking in to this assassin's killings to see if there's a connection to his parents' murder.
 
the pieces seem to be setting in place for a gang war between Maroni, Falcone, fish and the rise of The Penguin. I like the look of Arkham Asylum (Arkham City nice reference), Bruce is showing traits of an upcoming detective skills, Gordon is slowly starting to break in morality in how he sees Gotham City unravelling into more corruption and chaos.
 
The villains and the cases of the week are weak.

Every time they show Bruce, it's like they're saying "OMG, Batman's coming one day". It's also crazy how this kid lives in his living room, and doesn't seem to be going to school or anything. Just doing pre-Batman stuff you know.

Gordon remains bland. He & Bruce need to figure out how to have a different conversation. It's only so many times I can here a variation of Gotham being capable of being saved.

Penguin's arc and the mob stuff is what keeps me interested.

Ya I know lol. I'm sure a lot of people here love the Bruce scenes but to me they are tacky and becoming boringly predictable. Add to the fact the kid playing him comes off as a spoiled little brat. Like every time he talks to Alfred and Gordon both men look bewildered and like they've just been touched by the word of god himself. And ya, I get they r trying to show how messed up he is by his parents death, but showing him doing something, anything besides sitting on his couch and going through files like some homicide detective and giving Gordon speeches about how he better clean up gotham would be refreshing. This episode was slightly better than the previous 3 overall but it's still missing the mark by quite a stretch. The fish girl fight scene was such an obvious rip off of the joker pool stick Scene in the dark knight, except without any of the subtlety and good acting lol. This shows about as subtle as a hammer to the forehead. The only thing remotely intriguing is penguin and his rise to prominence.
 
The Bruce scenes are still the most exciting for me and I must also say that David Mazouz portrays him excellently.
 
The Bruce scenes are still the most exciting for me and I must also say that David Mazouz portrays him excellently.

May I ask what exactly about his scenes are exciting? I'm genuinely curious because maybe I'm missing something that would make it better. To me it's been overkill. We are only 4 episodes in and at this date he will be donning the suit at the end of season 2. It's like he went straight from his parents being murdered to being super sleuth detective. I think there's a real possibility of burnout.
 
Have to agree with a lot of the criticisms, however, I'm mostly interested in Penguins rise in the criminal underworld than the other characters. I was hoping for a much quieter bruce at this point, who felt lost in the world, not one who seems to be a detective right off the bat, doesn't feel like a natural transition.

Although the dialogue is poor, most seasons..especially super heroes, first season are ridiculously poor, so I don't mind this all that much right now, and I give it till the second season where this show finds a better pacing, dialogue etc., hopefully enough people keep watching it till than.

I'm curious when they do make fish mooney bite the bullet, if she will be the big death of s1? or if they plan on using her in subsequent seasons..I mean this show has a good 15 years or so..which should be 15 seasons before batman becomes batman? right?
 
To me this has a Tarantino vibes to it in some ways, Quirky villans, exaggerated violence, silly cartoonish aspects mixed with grit, and the pulp influence. Just not as good.
 
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The fight between the two singers was probably my least favourite part of the episode. Something just felt off about that. Although, I think part of that was intentional, since they were supposed to be thinking "wait, I have to literally fight for this job?". The losing girl taking her earrings off without hesitation did make me laugh. She's ready to throw down 24/7.

First thing that popped in my head during this scene wasThe Dark Knight....When the Joker made the guys fight to join his crew.
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It isTAS with a bit more cheese. Or with the same amount of cheese but because it's live action it becomes more obvious and not as excusable.
This. Not really more cheese, just it's way more glaring because of the live action element.

This was the weakest episode so far from an execution standpoint, but I do like the story they're progressing with the city and with our lead characters. Some of the stuff was weird - Gordon YELLING that they need to keep this quiet? - 2 girls awkwardly fighting with not nearly enough set up to make me buy it? Fish Mooney asking her to seduce her and then not really doing anything? I like the ideas they're coming up with, but the execution makes it come off as cheesy - which may be their goal, but it isn't really always working for me. Sometimes they do hit that sweet spot. I'm still loving Bullock, great depiction in my opinion. The kid is also a dead ringer for Bruce. I'll keep tuning in because I want to see how Gotham devolves, how Bruce evolves and how the villains come to run the place, and hopefully they learn a slightly less off-putting balance for the show.
 

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