Superman Returns Growth of Superman's CHaracter in SR

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So you say this movie stands in it's own right without any kind of backstory or other mediums influence yes?

In that case why have a Superman that is not himself? It was not an origin story so why have the character go through a growing period, especially when the growing period is about problems he should have dealt with years ago.

Because an origin story isnt necessary for Superman like it is for other characters, his origin has been told in the movies, as well as the live and animated T.V shows.

It was an origin type of movie, because the character and his world needed re-introducing. Other than a few bits and bobs taken from Superman:The Movie, it is basically its own story.

 

[LexCorp]

Because an origin story isnt necessary for Superman like it is for other characters, his origin has been told in the movies, as well as the live and animated T.V shows.

It was an origin type of movie, because the character and his world needed re-introducing. Other than a few bits and bobs taken from Superman:The Movie, it is basically its own story.

It still does not make much sense that we did not see a more well rounded Superman. I can understand that we needed a new spin on the character and maybe giving him something to fight (personal demons?) so we can say hey he fought back we love him again. But it would have been better to see a more full Superman to start with. Lord knows what kind of wimpy self loathing guy he was before he went away for 5 years.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It still does not make much sense that we did not see a more well rounded Superman. I can understand that we needed a new spin on the character and maybe giving him something to fight (personal demons?) so we can say hey he fought back we love him again. But it would have been better to see a more full Superman to start with. Lord knows what kind of wimpy self loathing guy he was before he went away for 5 years.

I guess we'll never find out. He was probably happy with Lois, but there was still a part of him that yearned for someone to truly relate to him, Lois cant do that because she doesnt know what its like to have the power of a God, or what it was like growing up with them.

But Jason can relate to Superman in this way, that is why Superman is so happy when he finds out Jason is his, and that is the irony of the story. If Superman wouldnt have left for Krypton, he would have had someone like him to relate to on Earth.

 

[LexCorp]

I guess we'll never find out. He was probably happy with Lois, but there was still a part of him that yearned for someone to truly relate to him, Lois cant do that because she doesnt know what its like to have the power of a God, or what it was like growing up with them.

But Jason can relate to Superman in this way, that is why Superman is so happy when he finds out Jason is his, and that is the irony of the story. If Superman wouldnt have left for Krypton, he would have had someone like him to relate to on Earth.

Yeah all that is fine. But as you say there is too much in this film that is unexplained.

I think we are screwed if you take SR as a stand alone and screwed if you try and put older films or comics into the backstory.

Untouched by anything else the version of SR is so much more weal minded than anything we have seen.

Also if it was not a stand alone too many other Superman movies establish him as a stonger character.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yeah all that is fine. But as you say there is too much in this film that is unexplained.

I think we are screwed if you take SR as a stand alone and screwed if you try and put older films or comics into the backstory.

Untouched by anything else the version of SR is so much more weal minded than anything we have seen.

Also if it was not a stand alone too many other Superman movies establish him as a stonger character.

I dont see a problem with either, filling in the blanks of SR myself has been no problem for me, and IMO, they give us enough information to make a good guess at what did happen.

I do believe though, that is the sequel is made, we will get some more info on previous events.

 

[LexCorp]

I dont see a problem with either, filling in the blanks of SR myself has been no problem for me, and IMO, they give us enough information to make a good guess at what did happen.

I do believe though, that is the sequel is made, we will get some more info on previous events.

Agreed, I hold out hope.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Agreed, I hold out hope.

I just hope Singer gets one more chance, because, IMO, if he does, he will blow us all away and we will have a Superman movie that pleases many more fans.

Whatever people say about him being arrogant (which is a crock of **** IMO, just watch his interviews and he NEVER comes accross as being arrogant), he DOES listen to the criticisms of his movies. ALL of the changes made from X1 to X2 (with the exception of giving Cyclops less screentime) were criticisms from fans about X1. He obviously listened to them, and made the necessary changes, and i think he will do the same with MOS, everything we have heard about MOS so far (more action, less Donner influence's, shorter movie) points to that.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Sorry double post.

 

[manofsteel4life]

I just hope Singer gets one more chance, because, IMO, if he does, he will blow us all away and we will have a Superman movie that pleases many more fans.

Whatever people say about him being arrogant (which is a crock of **** IMO, just watch his interviews and he NEVER comes accross as being arrogant), he DOES listen to the criticisms of his movies. ALL of the changes made from X1 to X2 (with the exception of giving Cyclops less screentime) were criticisms from fans about X1. He obviously listened to them, and made the necessary changes, and i think he will do the same with MOS, everything we have heard about MOS so far (more action, less Donner influence's, shorter movie) points to that.

yea i never really understood that.....alot of people here think that he made a superman movie trying to explain his life....

 

[LexCorp]

Yeah I have always liked Singer since I saw hi do the usual suspects but I still feel he had not grasped the character 100%.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

yea i never really understood that.....alot of people here think that he made a superman movie trying to explain his life....

I can see why people make that connection but for me, it just isnt the case, Bryan just made the Superman movie he had in his head for seemingly a long time. People may say its innaccurate, etc, but i just cant see it, anything he did in SR is no worse than certain things he has done in the comics or the previous movies.

Yeah I have always liked Singer since I saw hi do the usual suspects but I still feel he had not grasped the character 100%.

I dont think any director will ever grasp the character 100% because there is so much out there to base him on. Hell, a lot of the time the comics dont even get the character right IMO. Kingdom Come is a great story, possibly one of the best i have read, but the true Superman that people cry out for in SR wouldnt have left the people of Earth to fend for themselves just because they liked another hero better.

 

[mego joe]

I can see why people make that connection but for me, it just isnt the case, Bryan just made the Superman movie he had in his head for seemingly a long time. People may say its innaccurate, etc, but i just cant see it, anything he did in SR is no worse than certain things he has done in the comics or the previous movies.



I dont think any director will ever grasp the character 100% because there is so much out there to base him on. Hell, a lot of the time the comics dont even get the character right IMO. Kingdom Come is a great story, possibly one of the best i have read, but the true Superman that people cry out for in SR wouldnt have left the people of Earth to fend for themselves just because they liked another hero better.

That is way oversimplifying Superman's motivation in KC. It goes way beyond being the loser in a popularity contest.

 

[LexCorp]

Maybe asking for 100% grasp factor is too much, but even 50% would have been good for this movie.

 

[mego joe]

Maybe asking for 100% grasp factor is too much, but even 50% would have been good for this movie.

What would you say we got? 15%? Maybe 20%?

 

[LexCorp]

What would you say we got? 15%? Maybe 20%?

About 37% of the character was spot on for me.

 

[mego joe]

About 37% of the character was spot on for me.

I can see that.

 

[LexCorp]

I can see that.

Indeed, moments where he tells Lois the world needs a saviour, the whole space shutle scene, on his farm with his dog etc.... that was good Superman.

The rest was just not Superman

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That is way oversimplifying Superman's motivation in KC. It goes way beyond being the loser in a popularity contest.

I dont think it is, in the end, that is the moment he chose to exile himself from mankind.

Indeed, moments where he tells Lois the world needs a saviour, the whole space shutle scene, on his farm with his dog etc.... that was good Superman.

The rest was just not Superman

What about choosing to save Metropolis rather than going to help Lois, what about taking Kitty to the hospital even though he knew there was nothing wrong with her, what about the news footage of him stopping a 'simple deli robbery, showing no feat is too big or too small for the Man Of Steel,' what about saving the bank guards despite just learning that the woman he loves doesnt love him, what about goin back to New Krypton despite the fact that he just nearly died on it, not to mention he almost died in the process of getting rid of it just to save humanity, what about the THOUSANDS of lives he saved during the course of the movie.

If that isnt Superman i dont know what is, i'd say we got about 80% of Superman in SR myself.

 

[mego joe]

I dont think it is, in the end, that is the moment he chose to exile himself from mankind.

That was the straw that broke the camel's back. You can't discount he'd already lost the Kent's and Lois, Jimmy, Perry and ALL his co-workers at the Planet had been murdered by the Joker. It was then that his values and morals were rejected by the people he's sworn to protect that pushed him over the edge. It's much deeper and complex than simply loosing a popularity contest.

 

[LexCorp]

I dont think it is, in the end, that is the moment he chose to exile himself from mankind.



What about choosing to save Metropolis rather than going to help Lois, what about taking Kitty to the hospital even though he knew there was nothing wrong with her, what about the news footage of him stopping a 'simple deli robbery, showing no feat is too big or too small for the Man Of Steel,' what about saving the bank guards despite just learning that the woman he loves doesnt love him, what about goin back to New Krypton despite the fact that he just nearly died on it, not to mention he almost died in the process of getting rid of it just to save humanity, what about the THOUSANDS of lives he saved during the course of the movie.

If that isnt Superman i dont know what is, i'd say we got about 80% of Superman in SR myself.

All good things over shadowed by the bad plot.

 

[mego joe]

All good things over shadowed by the bad plot.

Yup. Exactly.

 

[LexCorp]

Yup. Exactly.

I mean would it have been so hard to give Lex more to do?

 

[mego joe]

I mean would it have been so hard to give Lex more to do?

Apparently. The film suffered from a lack of creativity and strict adherenc to the Donnerverse that Lex was doomed from the beginning.

 

[LexCorp]

Apparently. The film suffered from a lack of creativity and strict adherenc to the Donnerverse that Lex was doomed from the beginning.

Indeed. It makes no sense to try to stick to anything that had come before SR....but it still said "hey you guys need to know Supermans back story". Why?

SR just tried to pick up from the past films....but then again it never really said that is what happened.

It's like this film fell out of another dimension and we saw another Earths Superman story.

 

[Angeloz]

Apparently. The film suffered from a lack of creativity and strict adherenc to the Donnerverse that Lex was doomed from the beginning.

He should be reformed and sorrowful? Or do you mean he should succeed in destroying Superman? I'm doubting it.

Indeed. It makes no sense to try to stick to anything that had come before SR....but it still said "hey you guys need to know Supermans back story". Why?

For those that don't know about his back story or not much. I liked how they had Richard discuss his powers with Lois for instance. It entertained me and told those that didn't know about his powers what they were. This could include people that have a little knowledge to those that had none. Like children or even foreigners that had no prior experience of him. I've heard someone's parents in South America didn't really know him. Then there's the obvious Communist or ex-Communist countries like China. I'm sure they probably have little to no experience of him. Lastly those of us that know him needed to find out what was what. So he and his world was introduced to those with knowledge and those that had some or none.

SR just tried to pick up from the past films....but then again it never really said that is what happened.

It's like this film fell out of another dimension and we saw another Earths Superman story.

That happens in the comics too. I'm glad we didn't get another origin film. But it needed to re-introduce him to the world. For those with knowledge and those with none as stated.

Angeloz