Hank Pym: Alive or Dead by the end?

[kaijunexus]

I've been thinking about the direction that's been taken for the Hank Pym character in this Ant-Man film, and it's dawned on me that he may not be alive by the time the end credits roll. And I'm okay with that.

Let me tell you why...

1. Hank Pym is already being established as an important figure in MCU history. With the recent news that younger versions of SHIELD higher ups will be featured in a flashback in Ant-Man, it's evident that Dr. Pym will be given ample backstory that weave throughout the past decades. We won't necessarily need him moving forward, since we're being given so much of him in the past.

2. Michael Douglas is old. Therefore Henry Pym is old. I'm not saying that he has to die because he's old...but it certainly makes his death more likely than if he was a young Hank Pym.

3. Paul Rudd is young(er). Therefore Scott Lang is young(er). He's undoubtedly signed on to play Ant-Man for multiple films. He is the one who will be suiting up and throwing down with criminals in present day, not Hank Pym. Pym will act as his mentor in this film, which is great. But mentors generally don't stick around. They train the hero, and then they usually die once the hero is capable on their own. I don't see Hank Pym mentoring Scott through multiple films. So it's either "kill Pym" or "Pym just goes away".

4. Redemption. From what little we know about the plot, Hank is kind of a jerk, some kind of accident may or may not have killed his wife, he's most likely estranged from his daughter, and his previous mentee has turned bad and taken over his company. I'm assuming all of this is resolved in some manner by the end of the film (Hank is sorry for stuff, his daughter forgives him, company is saved), and the torch is successfully passed to Lang permanently. If that's the case, then all of Dr. Pym's story/character arcs are complete and he can die without any loose ends.


What do you guys think?

 

[Jammat]

I've wondered if this was partly where Marvel and Wright disagreed. Hypothetically Wright wanted to kill off Pym (and maybe others) in a blaze of glory, Marvel had their eyes on a sequel. Neither budged, Wright walked.

I hope he stays with us, there's room in the MCU for a cynical retired hero.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Killing Pym wouldn't "kill" a sequel. He isn't the star.

 

[BatsDC]

I personally think he'll survive, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if he didn't.

His death would be pretty good motivation for Lang to stay as Ant-Man continuing his legacy, and/or for Hope to suit up as Wasp.

Didn't Douglas mention the opportunity for sequels in an interview?

 

[chamber-music]

I hope Pym survives. The whole mentor dying to give the apprentice motivation is an overused cliché.

Lang can continue being Ant-Man without Hank having to die.

I don't think we can say for certain Pym is a jerk in the movie. We don't know if Janet is dead or if Hank played some role in it. We don't know what Hank and Hope's relationship will be like. The Redemption plot could relate to either Lang or Pym or both of them. Given Marvel would probably want the audience to like Pym as he is one the good guys then I imagine if he would have sympathetic backstory for a being jerk or grouchy/anti-social.

Douglas did mention being signed for multiple movies but that is standard for potential franchises movies and that may just be for flashbacks. Yinsen and Howard Stark are two dead characters of which actors have reprised their roles for in a flashback or prequel.

 

[BatsDC]

He'll probably come off as a bit of a jerk, but as you said actually be quite tragic - a good guy who just wanted to do good, but always ended up screwing up in one way or another. And now his tech is in the hands of someone who is using it for evil. I doubt he's too happy about that.

 

[cherokeesam]

I personally think he'll survive, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if he didn't.

His death would be pretty good motivation for Lang to stay as Ant-Man continuing his legacy, and/or for Hope to suit up as Wasp.

Didn't Douglas mention the opportunity for sequels in an interview?

I'm betting you're probably right: Pym dies heroically; Lang and Hope/Wasp become Avengers; and we may even get a Giant-Man, or at least a Goliath (Bill Foster). As a long-time Avenger fan from the 1970s on, this would make me very happy, and would be a great way to honor the Pym mythos they've deconstructed by aging and marginalizing him.

On the other hand, I'd also love it if Douglas *did* get called up to the bigs, and become the World's Oldest Avenger. Dunno how long us audiences will be graced with Michael Douglas' presence, but I'd love to see him (and I think *he'd* love it, too) get the chance to play an old-age superhero.

 

[BatsDC]

I suppose Pym could reasonably suit up if he had a slightly more armoured suit - if he gets the Yellowjacket suit back he could tone down the militaristic elements and use it for himself. As long as they don't make Pym walk everywhere with a cane of something, it's reasonable to say he could still beat a few guys up with some help from the suit.

 

[kaijunexus]

On the other hand, I'd also love it if Douglas *did* get called up to the bigs, and become the World's Oldest Avenger. Dunno how long us audiences will be graced with Michael Douglas' presence, but I'd love to see him (and I think *he'd* love it, too) get the chance to play an old-age superhero.

As cool as that would be, there has to be a reason that he's recruiting Lang in the first place. Why not just suit up himself and do what needs to be done? Why entrust Lang with this job?

I have to imagine that there's a reason why Hank can't be Ant-Man anymore (whether it be over-exposure to Pym particles, disease, or just old age) which leads to him seeking out a replacement.

 

[chamber-music]

Pym had an experimental adamantium armoured Ant-Man suit that got stolen in by Dr Nemesis in the comics which Pym could use in the movie if they want to go 'The Dark Knight Returns'.

 

[chamber-music]

I have to imagine that there's a reason why Hank can't be Ant-Man anymore (whether it be over-exposure to Pym particles, disease, or just old age) which leads to him seeking out a replacement.

Edgar Wright used to talk Lang had a special set of skills which probably meant his burglary skills and knowledge of security systems.

I could see the size changing taking its toll on Hank's body like it has done in the comics from time to time or possibly Pym has become a agoraphobic recluse who never leaves his house/lab since Janet died/left and he lost his company.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I personally think he'll survive, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if he didn't.

That's my thought. I could see it either way and would be fine either way if the story's good, but I think survival is slightly more likely (even if to just avoid the cliche).

Didn't Douglas mention the opportunity for sequels in an interview?

I don't recall. If he did, that probably means he's survived because he's been absolutely terrible at keeping secrets so far.

 

[KDM1986]

The more Douglas/Pym in the MCU the better.

 

[SlamAdams]

I personally think he'll survive, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if he didn't.

His death would be pretty good motivation for Lang to stay as Ant-Man continuing his legacy, and/or for Hope to suit up as Wasp.

Yea, I pretty much co-sign this. Not betting on it, but I do think this incarnation of Pym has that special kind of expendablity

 

[KDM1986]

I can't believe its 50/50 so far. Do you guys really think marvel would hire Michael Douglas to play Hank Pym for only one movie? Dudes gonna be in at least two probably more.

 

[cherokeesam]

I can't believe its 50/50 so far. Do you guys really think marvel would hire Michael Douglas to play Hank Pym for only one movie? Dudes gonna be in at least two probably more.

I'd certainly hope so, too; but, hate to sound morbid, can we be sure he'll last that long? The fact that Douglas is living on borrowed time in a much more immediate fashion than most actors *had* to weigh on the studio's minds when considering whether or not to franchise him.

 

[chamber-music]

Morgan Freeman is 77 and made it though the Dark Knight Trilogy without dying.

 

[SlamAdams]

I can't believe its 50/50 so far. Do you guys really think marvel would hire Michael Douglas to play Hank Pym for only one movie? Dudes gonna be in at least two probably more.

They hired Tommy Lee Jones for one movie. They hired Robert Redford for one movie. Clearly, the size of Douglas' star doesn't matter. And the simple fact that they aged Hank Pym to the point that he is taking a back seat to Scott Lang and disconnected from Ultron means they may not have long term plans for the character. From the information given, he seems to land in the sweet spot of movie expendability. They'd be able to continue the franchise without him, but he is important enough to the story for his death to be meaningful.

 

[cherokeesam]

Morgan Freeman is 77 and made it though the Dark Knight Trilogy without dying.

Morgan Freeman wasn't sitting on death's door just a short while ago with Stage IV throat/tongue cancer, either. It's not a question of age; it's a question of health, and Michael Douglas' still remains very poor.

 

[<(o_o)>]

Morgan Freeman wasn't sitting on death's door just a short while ago with Stage IV throat/tongue cancer, either. It's not a question of age; it's a question of health, and Michael Douglas' still remains very poor.

It's not like there going to have him running around doing big heroic action sequences so he could be around for a movie or 2 or 3. He can still be the Obi Wan/Yoda to Lange's Luke.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I've been thinking about the direction that's been taken for the Hank Pym character in this Ant-Man film, and it's dawned on me that he may not be alive by the time the end credits roll. And I'm okay with that.

Let me tell you why...

1. Hank Pym is already being established as an important figure in MCU history. With the recent news that younger versions of SHIELD higher ups will be featured in a flashback in Ant-Man, it's evident that Dr. Pym will be given ample backstory that weave throughout the past decades. We won't necessarily need him moving forward, since we're being given so much of him in the past.

2. Michael Douglas is old. Therefore Henry Pym is old. I'm not saying that he has to die because he's old...but it certainly makes his death more likely than if he was a young Hank Pym.

3. Paul Rudd is young(er). Therefore Scott Lang is young(er). He's undoubtedly signed on to play Ant-Man for multiple films. He is the one who will be suiting up and throwing down with criminals in present day, not Hank Pym. Pym will act as his mentor in this film, which is great. But mentors generally don't stick around. They train the hero, and then they usually die once the hero is capable on their own. I don't see Hank Pym mentoring Scott through multiple films. So it's either "kill Pym" or "Pym just goes away".

4. Redemption. From what little we know about the plot, Hank is kind of a jerk, some kind of accident may or may not have killed his wife, he's most likely estranged from his daughter, and his previous mentee has turned bad and taken over his company. I'm assuming all of this is resolved in some manner by the end of the film (Hank is sorry for stuff, his daughter forgives him, company is saved), and the torch is successfully passed to Lang permanently. If that's the case, then all of Dr. Pym's story/character arcs are complete and he can die without any loose ends.


What do you guys think?

So it's like the Mask of Zorro then.

 

[cherokeesam]

So it's like the Mask of Zorro then.

Or Thunderbolt and Lightfoot.





....What, am I the only one here old enough to remember Thunderbolt and Lightfoot?

 

[the gael]

Honestly, the whole passing the torch of the dying superhero to a young man that marry the daughter of his mentor is a 100 % rip-off of the Mask of Zorro. Just change Zorro by Ant man and you have it.

I really love the Mask of Zorro, it's my favorite Zorro movie but I hope Marvel is going in another direction, and I hope that there are some twist and change to make both movies different. And one of them will be to have a living Pym at the end.

 

[Mysteryman]

Or Thunderbolt and Lightfoot.





....What, am I the only one here old enough to remember Thunderbolt and Lightfoot?

Nope.
Great movie

 

[Loki882]

I kind of think that you could keep Pym around as the "Q" of the MCU. The kind of cynical and flawed, but ultimately good scientist/tech guy. Heck, you could have him mentor any potential younger heroes like he did in the Avengers Academy book. Given how much Pym/Ant Man/Wasp fans are ALREADY complaining about the changes that this movie is making, killing off Pym would really set them off (especially if it turns out that Janet IS in fact already dead at the start of the movie).