Has anybody noticed how TERRITORIAL the superhero world is?

[Fantasyartist]

When I use the phrase "territorial" I mean not simply in the geographical sense although it is quite valid ( ie see nationally based teams of heroes such as Canada's Alpha Flight, Russia's Winter Guard, Big Hero 6 in Japan, Sabra in Israel, Excalibur in the UK), but in the sense of specialization. Science based heroes such as the Fantastic Four fight science based villains(such as their archenemy, Dr Doom of Latveria), mystically and supernaturally based heroes like Dr Strange, Brother Voodoo and the Son of Satan battle entities such as Mephisto , Baron Mordo or Dormammu). Mutants like the X-Men oppose other mutants such as Magneto. Patriots such as the original Captain America fight "anti-patriots" such as The Red Skull or Flag-Smasher, just as Iron Man opposes his Soviet "doppelgangers" such as The Crimson Dynamo or The Titanium Man who wear armor similiar to his own. I suppose it lends meaning to the old saying -"you know a man by the enemies he fights"

Even in the confines of a single city- New York- certain neighbourhoods are under the unofficial protection of a given hero- ie Daredevil in Hells' Kitchen, Spider-Man in Queens, the Thing in his old neighbourhood of Yancey Street.
Can't wait to see what happens when each state in the Union has its own super hero team( of course, who'd WANT to be a hero in Indiana , Utah or Vermont?)

Anybody else notice this?

Terry

PS This applies as much to the DCU as its Marvel counterpart, remember the association of a certain Dark Knight with Gotham City or Metropolis with a Man of Steel?

 

[November Rain]

yeah, it was covered in spiderman's coming home arc


i think writers have a hard time coming up with proper antagonists so just naturally perform equal-opposites for villains

as for certain locations being under the durisdiction of certain heroes, i think it just makes writing in continuity easier since events in comics don't have to overlap.I mean there are plenty of times when a major event is apparently happening across the entire new york province, yet it isn't shown in any other comics.

made up cities also help create an atmosphere and a template you can mess around with while still sharing a feel for a real world one.

i've personally always felt a villain like apocalypse should be bigger than a mutant threat alone but he rarely is, it's a bit of a shame.

 

[WompuM]

Well, you find that magic vs. magic, tech vs. tech, and america vs. nazis etc. happens because these heroes and villains were created at a time when writing for comics was pretty lame and unimaginative. Morrison does a great bit about this in Animal Man when he creates a bunch of lame animal themed villains for Buddy to fight. The biggest surprise to me is how little the Joker has to do with Batman. Bats and clowns really aren't associated in anyway are they?

 

[The Question]

To a degree, though, it makes some sense. If your area of expertise is magic, you're most likely to get trouble from demons and sorcerers, because those are the circles you travel in. If you're a scientist, sci-fi weirdness is more likely because that's what you're actively seeking out and exposing yourself to. If you're a government agent, your enemies will usually be people who are opposed to your government.

 

[November Rain]

but if all these people exist in the same city, a crime fight is more than likely to fight against someone who isn't in their field than someone who is.

 

[November Rain]

Well, you find that magic vs. magic, tech vs. tech, and america vs. nazis etc. happens because these heroes and villains were created at a time when writing for comics was pretty lame and unimaginative. Morrison does a great bit about this in Animal Man when he creates a bunch of lame animal themed villains for Buddy to fight. The biggest surprise to me is how little the Joker has to do with Batman. Bats and clowns really aren't associated in anyway are they?

batman's an introvert, joker's an extrovert

i mean sure he's not called the jackal or the parrot or anything but the lines of equal and opposite still apply.

 

[The Question]

but if all these people exist in the same city, a crime fight is more than likely to fight against someone who isn't in their field than someone who is.

Yes and no. The Fantastic Four, for example, really aren't crime fighters. Yeah, if they spotted a mugging while walking somewhere they'd step in, but almost all of their adventures happen because A) They've gone to do some science-y stuff and things go zany, B) They're called in by someone else, usually the government, to fix some kind of problem, or C) Someone who doesn't like them decides to drive that particular point home. Same with Doctor Strange. He doesn't patrol the city in search of evil to thwart. He hangs out in his loft meditating and drinking tea until someone shows up at his front door looking for his help after Elder Gods have possessed their brother or their mother has married Satan or some such silliness. Other heroes, like Captain America, who do have areas of expertise but also occasionally patrol the neighborhood and fight crime to stay sharp and do good, well, when they do that, what do they encounter? Muggers, thieves, and other such criminals, both powered and non-powered. Same as pretty much every other hero who decides to patrol the city in search of villains to vanquish.

 

[Fantasyartist]

Yes, I know it's true that some heroes , pace the FF, Thor, Iron Man, leave the purse snatchers, muggers, rapists and other "perps" to Spidey or Daredevil (or The Punisher), unless they happen to come across them in the act, whilst other focus on threats to their own societies( Alpha Flight, Winter Guard, Big Hero 6, Excalibur, Sabra, Arabian Knight). My point is that there is an enormous amount of variation in the MU on this issue. It represents the old conundrum for heroes/heroines- which is more important, saving the universe or preventing some senior citizen being bashed on the head for their Social Security cheques.

Terry

 

[The Question]

Most heroes are rarely put in the situation where they need to choose. Spider-Man, by virtue of how he operates and what circles he walks in, is more likely to come across a mugger than an alien invader. If there were super heroes in the real world, some operating the way Spidey does and some operating the way the FF does, the same would be true.

 

[November Rain]

Yes and no. The Fantastic Four, for example, really aren't crime fighters. Yeah, if they spotted a mugging while walking somewhere they'd step in, but almost all of their adventures happen because A) They've gone to do some science-y stuff and things go zany, B) They're called in by someone else, usually the government, to fix some kind of problem, or C) Someone who doesn't like them decides to drive that particular point home. Same with Doctor Strange. He doesn't patrol the city in search of evil to thwart. He hangs out in his loft meditating and drinking tea until someone shows up at his front door looking for his help after Elder Gods have possessed their brother or their mother has married Satan or some such silliness. Other heroes, like Captain America, who do have areas of expertise but also occasionally patrol the neighborhood and fight crime to stay sharp and do good, well, when they do that, what do they encounter? Muggers, thieves, and other such criminals, both powered and non-powered. Same as pretty much every other hero who decides to patrol the city in search of villains to vanquish.

spidey's hardly ever known to run into trouble on a patrol, most of the time it's when he's trying to enjoy aspects of his private life and trouble accidentally finds him.

this type of crime fighting scenario should have the same amount of odds as anyone else.

sandman and rhino are just as likely to run into any other hero as they are spidey

I would prefer a pool of villains interacting with a pool of heroes rather than specific villains for specific heroes. It limits the realism of a entwinned universe.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes, I know it's true that some heroes , pace the FF, Thor, Iron Man, leave the purse snatchers, muggers, rapists and other "perps" to Spidey or Daredevil (or The Punisher), unless they happen to come across them in the act, whilst other focus on threats to their own societies( Alpha Flight, Winter Guard, Big Hero 6, Excalibur, Sabra, Arabian Knight). My point is that there is an enormous amount of variation in the MU on this issue. It represents the old conundrum for heroes/heroines- which is more important, saving the universe or preventing some senior citizen being bashed on the head for their Social Security cheques.

Terry

Not as much now, but earlier in his career as a superhero, Thor thwarted all kinds of crime. It was pretty funny to see him hand normal muggers their asses.

And, really, while most heroes do tend to face villains with similar themes, plenty of them face all kinds of villains from all kinds of fields. Thor's had plenty of sci fi adventures out in space, Captain America's fought mystical threats often enough, etc. Their lifestyles put them in contention with certain kinds of baddies most often, but I think pretty much every hero branches out to different kinds of bad guys if they've been around long enough.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Agreed with Corpulent.

Also it depends on how popular they are. In the 90s when Ghost Rider was a hot name to put on comics, I recall GRs battling the Alien Brood, tackling the Sinister Six, battling super powered mutants, battling in space as one of the Galactic Guardians, not to mention his PWNing of Galactus on TV, crossovers with Spiderman and Venom, etc.

Hell Wolverine can be found in almost every comic out there tackling aliens to demons.

 

[Vanguard07]

For the most part, Superheroes run into "their" respective villains by dumb luck or random circumstance, and for the most part, continue to run into them because, the villains are generally the type to have a vendetta over silly little slights like being thwarted.

Spiderman for example, would meet one of the sinister six for the first time at random while on patrol or whatever and every other time after that it would be either at patrol again in the same area cause his villains are ******ed or cause they pulled some big attention grabbing scheme specifically to get him to show so they can act on their vendetta. Again basically because most bad guys are egomaniacal ******s who cant let their grudges go.

To be fair though, there IS a whole lot of crossovers within universe. For example, how many heroes or villains are there on earth in marvel that Spiderman HASN'T fought against or worked alongside? Or that have never fought alongside or been members of the Avengers or the FF or even the X-men.

 

[-The Rider-]

Agreed with Corpulent.

Also it depends on how popular they are. In the 90s when Ghost Rider was a hot name to put on comics, I recall GRs battling the Alien Brood, tackling the Sinister Six, battling super powered mutants, battling in space as one of the Galactic Guardians, not to mention his PWNing of Galactus on TV, crossovers with Spiderman and Venom, etc.

Hell Wolverine can be found in almost every comic out there tackling aliens to demons.

Agreed. Speaking of Ghost Rider, during the early issues of Mackie's run (90's), GR was developed to be the only "supernatural" entity in the comic. He'd be fighting modern agencies such as the Firm, and hi-tech villians such as Heart Attack. And this all was happening in his own ongoing regular series. Ofcourse as the title went on, it eventually entered supernatural territory itself, but there have been a couple of arcs/ stories where it was shown that the magic vs. magic/ science vs. science issue wasn't followed.

 

[Fantasyartist]

Globalization I think has made even the most parochial of heroes/heroines realize just small the world has become, so it's not as unusual as it once was to see super-types from one country travelling to the "Big Apple" or some other big american city( Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia) to investigate a lead!

Terry

 

[chiefchirpa]

Dc comics heroes are territorial. "Darn you Bruce, Metropolis is my home!!" with clenched fist.

Marvel comics heroes mostly lump inside NYC, how can it be said to be territorial?

 

[fifthfiend]

Globalization I think has made even the most parochial of heroes/heroines realize just small the world has become, so it's not as unusual as it once was to see super-types from one country travelling to the "Big Apple" or some other big american city( Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia) to investigate a lead!

Terry

This is the greatest post ever.

 

[fifthfiend]

Dc comics heroes are territorial. "Darn you Bruce, Metropolis is my home!!" with clenched fist.

Marvel comics heroes mostly lump inside NYC, how can it be said to be territorial?

It's like how hobos sharing an alley get really pissed if one of 'em tries to take the other's cardboard box.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, when do you ever see other heroes hanging out in Hell's Kitchen unless Daredevil invites them?

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Well, who would want to?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know. Given the number of superheroes in Marvel's New York, though, you'd think some other superheroes hung around that area.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Asides from Daredevil, the superheroes in Marvel really aren't that territorial. The DC heroes like Batman, Superman, Flash, and Green Arrow seem to be the more territorial ones

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's really only Batman who's territorial to everyone in the DC universe. Other heroes don't seem to care if people pitch in in their cities, so long as they approve of their methods.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It's really only Batman who's territorial to everyone in the DC universe. Other heroes don't seem to care if people pitch in in their cities, so long as they approve of their methods.

They're not as extreme as Batman, but Superman, Green Arrow, and Flash make it pretty clear whose in charge in their specific cities.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Really? I don't think I've ever seen Superman or the Flash get annoyed that people are in their cities without very clear reasons.