Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]488863[/split]

 

[John-An]

It's Confirmed! Henry Cavill will come back to reprise his role as Superman in Justice League.
Welcome to the Official thread of the Man of Steel!

 

[Lone]

I'd hate that (just like the "I'm the Juggernaut, *****!" thing from X3) but imagine how perfectly it could have fit into the news/rescue montage in BvS--

"He's not dangerous!"
"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

That would've totally worked LOL!

 

[DarkKnight]

Do you guys and gals think we will get a special resurrection costume like in the comics? or at least a wink/nod to it? perhaps during his "regeneration" cycle he is dreaming and perhaps wearing the capeless black and silver costume (kind of like the MOS nightmare sequence).​

​

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Do you guys and gals think we will get a special resurrection costume like in the comics? or at least a wink/nod to it? perhaps during his "regeneration" cycle he is dreaming and perhaps wearing the capeless black and silver costume (kind of like the MOS nightmare sequence).​

Maybe that wink/nod already came with the coffin.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Well, his old suit has a big ass hole in it. He'll need something new I imagine.

 

[DarkKnight]

Hmm True, I wonder if the JL suit will end up being the BvS suit or if it will be tweaked or all out changed again?

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

I would like a scene where Alfred repairs his suit while him and Bruce talk in front of the bat computer. What do you guys think?

 

[LamboMan]

I would like a scene where Alfred repairs his suit while him and Bruce talk in front of the bat computer. What do you guys think?

That would be cool from a comic perspective but in the movie I don't think he could repair a Kryptonian suit without using Kryptonian technology, and if someone did have access to Kryptonian tech it would be Supes first.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

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I can't quote the other post and cutting and pasting doesn't work so well on this tablet, but regarding your longer post in the previous thread where you broke down how you saw it, that was a great post because it takes into account their actions and you didn't try just explaining them away as filler. Him saying "no one stays good" and meaning it at the very least for THAT MOMENT, and later seeing himself in Batmans actions and that causing the change.

Plus we don't know what clark learned about Bruce (and what he's lost) in the Batman investigation that got cut, maybe he learned all about robin. (In which case **** you snyder for cutting that and leaving the batmbile chase). Good read, hadn't considered it. Totally disagree that up until now superman has seen his role as black and white, that would make more sense in MOS supes to me personally. That and he still did a horrible job in subduing him, but Batman can't win if supes talks him out of fighting! But a very balanced take that like I said actually explains their actions rather than just avoiding what contradicts it, thanks!

 

[Rapunzel]

Snyder definitely screwed up cutting any Supes/Clark stuff. He left in so many things that deserved to be cut, like Lois getting her freaking mail. Really??

 

[LamboMan]

I can't quote the other post and cutting and pasting doesn't work so well on this tablet, but regarding your longer post in the previous thread where you broke down how you saw it, that was a great post because it takes into account their actions and you didn't try just explaining them away as filler. Him saying "no one stays good" and meaning it at the very least for THAT MOMENT, and later seeing himself in Batmans actions and that causing the change.

Plus we don't know what clark learned about Bruce (and what he's lost) in the Batman investigation that got cut, maybe he learned all about robin. (In which case **** you snyder for cutting that and leaving the batmbile chase). Good read, hadn't considered it. Totally disagree that up until now superman has seen his role as black and white, that would make more sense in MOS supes to me personally. That and he still did a horrible job in subduing him, but Batman can't win if supes talks him out of fighting! But a very balanced take that like I said actually explains their actions rather than just avoiding what contradicts it, thanks!

You mean this post? I'm just putting it here so other's get the context:

Guess I'll add my two cents on this topic:

Before the movie came out I was completely expecting the battle between Batman and Superman to be a battle of ideals. Their ideals are the things that guide their methods and classically, in the comics and animated media, they have always disagreed on their methods.

This was definitely touched upon in the movie as a motivation for Superman to investigate Batman and want to stop him.

But in the end the resolution wasn't one of their ideals or methods, it was a resolution of the very character motivations and life events that lead them to become what they are.

It wasn't a resolution of the 'effects' but of the 'cause' itself and that is something I have never seen happen in any Batman and Superman story. It went to the core of the characters and changed them and made them better, instead of just resolving surface conflicts or disagreements and leaving the character intact.

Batman came back from the edge, became good again, realised that he had become the very thing he fought all his life, the aggressor, the killer, the attacker and was about to become the man who took a son away from his mother. The thing that made him Batman, was going to destroy him forever. But hearing his mother's name reminds him of this, snaps him back to reality and makes him see what he is doing and what he has become.

He doesn't just become good again, he manages to FINALLY come to terms with the loss he suffered for 30 years. By saving Martha, he can finally do something that allows him to feel like he can cope with his loss, which 20 years of fighting criminals and stopping evil couldn't do. It also brings faith back to him that what he did for 20 years wasn't a waste and that "what falls" ISN'T "fallen" permanently and that his life as Batman WASN'T just "a beautiful lie".

Superman's character is changed when he realises that Bruce became the villain of the piece only because the world pushed him till he broke and he realises this when Superman himself was about to break and felt that "No one stays good in this world". He understands that if he can even feel like that, then another man can definitely go down that path but that doesn't mean he's evil.

That's what changes in Superman, he goes from seeing the world in black and white, to shades of gray, which is how the world really is. He even saw himself and his role in the world and the world around him in black and white. But then he realises that even though his actions have negative consequences, he must never give up doing what's right. And in this case, he accepted that his actions against Batman without understanding him had caused Batman to want to fight him, and so he apologises to Batman and asks for his help instead of using his power to subdue him outright.

So that's how I see it. And what I saw in the movie was beautiful for me.

Thanks a lot and I'm glad you liked it but I should clarify that I was talking about what Superman knew from Lex, that he had manipulated Batman ("You let your family die") which Lex straight up admits to doing.

Also, I strongly feel it was when Supes realised that Lex had manipulated both of them from the start (I'm sure he connected the photos of Martha to that of the sex trafficker which were also from Lex) he understands that Bruce HADN'T gotten that guy in prison killed and that he "was wrong".

I feel that Superman saw the world in black and white since he acted on what he thought was right without considering the consequences.

"I didn't kill those men, if that's what they're saying". No you didn't, Superman but have you considered why those men are dead?

Sure, we learn that it was Lex in the end and that the hearings were being orchestrated as reactions to his actions and not Superman's who was being framed but then again, Clark doesn't seem remorseful for the government "attacking the villages" since that wasn't his fault and he wasn't aware of the event and wasn't around when it happened. If he HAD been aware of the event and still not done anything about it, then he would have felt bad. He ignores that his actions had negative consequences and sees his actions as white and that of the African government as black. He is in denial that he caused that event, even if it is just indirectly.

For him doing good with his powers was just that (which is why he is saddened that the world doesn't stop questioning his actions even though he is just trying to be the good guy and help people) and he felt that Batman was bad because his branding apparently got a guy killed, regardless of the series of events that lead to that guy dying after the branding. Black and white.

Superman has always been a black and white justice kind of guy, even in the comics. After his failure at the bombing he feels that none of his 'white' actions amounted to anything in a 'black' world and that he would court negative consequences wherever he went and no matter what action he took ("Superman was never real, just the dream of a farmer from Kansas").

He is actually referring to himself by 'farmer from Kansas' since if we recall from MoS, Pa Kent never wanted him to become Superman and wasn't even around when he did make that decision. When Clark became Supes he still identified as a farmer from Kansas since that was what he was raised to be. He blames himself for believing that he could just do good and that the world would accept him for what he was and not react in division exactly like his father had predicted.

The dream or memory of Pa Kent makes him realise that negative consequences of heroic actions are inevitable and that doing good or being a hero isn't just black and white.

There are gray areas and not everything can be controlled or is within his control (no Phantom Zone or other deus ex machina like in older Superman stories) but atleast you can make sure that you did your part and saved something (the planet) instead of nothing (I'm referring to the Zod battle).

So he realised that he cannot just give up and stop doing good just because the world he believed in is dead ("My world doesn't exist anymore") because he has Lois to remind him that there IS still good in this world, and that the world doesn't have to be white OR black and neither does he. He just needs to do what is right at that point in time and regardless of the consequences he can't just leave the world to defend itself.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

That would be cool from a comic perspective but in the movie I don't think he could repair a Kryptonian suit without using Kryptonian technology, and if someone did have access to Kryptonian tech it would be Supes first.

He's Alfred. I'm sure he can figure it out.

Maybe gets some stuff from the kryptonian ship. I'm never a guy who hounds filmmakers for not sticking to source material but this guy really needed a Fortress of Solitude.

 

[LamboMan]

He's Alfred. I'm sure he can figure it out.

Maybe gets some stuff from the kryptonian ship. I'm never a guy who hounds filmmakers for not sticking to source material but this guy really needed a Fortress of Solitude.

Haha yeah, I guess.

It would be cool to see Bruce and Alfred getting info from the scout ship and maybe asking the AI how to bring Supes back to life and then use its help to repair the suit or create a new one.

Then maybe they can connect the scout ship to the Batcave and use the tech in the scout ship to bring Supes back.

How cool would it be if the scout ship becomes Supes' FOS in JL and has a direct connection to the Batcave via comms.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

Haha yeah, I guess.

It would be cool to see Bruce and Alfred getting info from the scout ship and maybe asking the AI how to bring Supes back to life and then use its help to repair the suit or create a new one.

The maybe they can connect the scout ship to the Batcave and use the tech in the scout ship to bring Supes back.

How cool would it be if the scout ship becomes Supes' FOS in JL and has a direct connection to the Batcave via comms.

Clark-Bruce Bromance....something I've wanted to see on screen for so long!

But would you prefer if Superman busted through the coffin? Or someone bring back back?

 

[DarkKnight]

oh man so many ways to see him return. I'm excited to even think about it. I know a lot of people don't like the dream sequence stuff but if they could get Russel Crowe and Kevin Kostner to return again for cameos I'd love to see Clark having a conversation with them in his "regenerating state" with them telling him how proud they are of him and how he has pretty much fulfilled his prophecy and it's time for him to take his place in the sun, be the protector he is meant to be.

 

[LamboMan]

Clark-Bruce Bromance....something I've wanted to see on screen for so long!

But would you prefer if Superman busted through the coffin? Or someone bring back back?

I would prefer it to be gradual and have someone do it as opposed to having him regen in a coffin that hasn't seen the light of day in a long time.

oh man so many ways to see him return. I'm excited to even think about it. I know a lot of people don't like the dream sequence stuff but if they could get Russel Crowe and Kevin Kostner to return again for cameos I'd love to see Clark having a conversation with them in his "regenerating state" with them telling him how proud they are of him and how he has pretty much fulfilled his prophecy and it's time for him to take his place in the sun, be the protector he is meant to be.

Ohh, I love that idea!

 

[DarkKnight]

I would prefer it to be gradual and have someone do it as opposed to having him regen in a coffin that hasn't seen the light of day in a long time.



Ohh, I love that idea!

Thanks!

 

[Rapunzel]

I don't think the Sun will play any part in his regeneration, so busting out the coffin sounds good to me.

 

[LamboMan]

I don't think the Sun will play any part in his regeneration, so busting out the coffin sounds good to me.

Considering they showed that he could be completely healed almost instantly after almost dying and looking like a zombie thanks to the sun, don't you think it should? Would be more consistent and also be like the comics that way.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

Da-Scribe had a great idea about the codex playing a part in his regeneration.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

I would rather external reasons come into play in his revival, that way he can actually be killed, and it's not just like oh his body just needed to reboot itself.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

He's Alfred. I'm sure he can figure it out.

Maybe gets some stuff from the kryptonian ship. I'm never a guy who hounds filmmakers for not sticking to source material but this guy really needed a Fortress of Solitude.

I'm hoping once revived he sees it's too dangerous to leave what's left under human control/exploration and it becomes his FOS.

 

[Rapunzel]

Da-Scribe had a great idea about the codex playing a part in his regeneration.

He's not the only one. I think it's likely. Snyder all but confirmed to EW that there would be a special reason for Supes' return. Using the codex rather than the sun also gets rid of the question, "why couldn't Zod come back to life?"

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

I feel that Superman saw the world in black and white since he acted on what he thought was right without considering the consequences.

"I didn't kill those men, if that's what they're saying". No you didn't, Superman but have you considered why those men are dead?

Sure, we learn that it was Lex in the end and that the hearings were being orchestrated as reactions to his actions and not Superman's who was being framed but then again, Clark doesn't seem remorseful for the government "attacking the villages" since that wasn't his fault and he wasn't aware of the event and wasn't around when it happened. If he HAD been aware of the event and still not done anything about it, then he would have felt bad. He ignores that his actions had negative consequences and sees his actions as white and that of the African government as black. He is in denial that he caused that event, even if it is just indirectly.lf.

I don't agree that he acts without thinking of or ignores the consequences after the fact, if that were true he'd have no reason to show up at the Senate. What was he going to say, "it wasn't me, get over it?" At most he might still be weighing whether his actions are worth the consequences, which is possible, but is really more inline with a green still new supes. This superman, even ignoring all the actions he did while in hiding, has saved the planet from zod and been doing the superhero deal for two years.

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He is actually referring to himself by 'farmer from Kansas' since if we recall from MoS, Pa Kent never wanted him to become Superman and wasn't even around when he did make that decision. When Clark became Supes he still identified as a farmer from Kansas since that was what he was raised to be. He blames himself for believing that he could just do good and that the world would accept him for what he was and not react in division exactly like his father had predicted.
.

Nope, he is taking about his father. His father did believe that he could be a force for good in the world. He gives him the "you are here for a reason" speech after he saves the schoolbus and tells him one day he's going to have to decide if it's good or bad. Also at the end when clark is with his mom and says it's too bad his father never saw him become superman and she says he knew/he saw (can't remember which) and they show Jonathan fixing the truck watching young clark in his cape, the implication is clear of what he saw in his son, of what he believed he could become.

There are gray areas and not everything can be controlled or is within his control (no Phantom Zone or other deus ex machina like in older Superman stories) but atleast you can make sure that you did your part and saved something (the planet) instead of nothing (I'm referring to the Zod battle).

So he realised that he cannot just give up and stop doing good just because the world he believed in is dead ("My world doesn't exist anymore") because he has Lois to remind him that there IS still good in this world, and that the world doesn't have to be white OR black and neither does he. He just needs to do what is right at that point in time and regardless of the consequences he can't just leave the world to defend itself.

Sorry but no, the meaning from those lines is clear, he's fairly straight forward here:

Superman: All this time I've been living my life the way my father saw it. Righting wrongs for a ghost, thinking I'm here to do good. Superman was never real. Just the dream of a farmer from Kansas.
Lois Lane: That farmer's dream is all some people have. It's all that gives them hope.
[touches the S shield]
Lois Lane: This means something.
Superman: It did on my world. My world doesn't exist anymore.

He's not referencing some ideal (and incredibly naive and cold hearted too) point of view that he suddenly no longer has that superheroing isnt black and white. He's talking about the hope Jonathan Kent had for what his son'd become.