Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

It seems to me that most of the failed projects directors wanted to reinvent the wheel with superman.

Red underwear, nope.

Says things like gee or golly? 86 that.

Actully likes and is proud of his powers?
Nope, he needs to be mopey, dark.

I think this rings true. This issue was VERY glaring when I was watching Shnepp's (RIP) documentary on Superman Lives. Everybody involved with Burton's version explained how the classic Superman story didn't resonate with them and they did not want to make that movie by any means necessary. What they did want make was a deconstruction of Superman and focus more on his alien world, their technology and what that alien-like mindset could do to revamp the Superman mythos and dive more into that world and turn it against him. It just feels to me that WB, at this point, NEEDS to find the right people, screenwriters and directors who will not be afraid to dive into what makes up Superman's core; moral values and use those things in a more classic adventure as a foundation and THEN make it their own. Not saying prior movies didn't do that, there were elements involved but certain storytellers tend to focus more on the what makes a character the most angst. For Superman, it can work in certain dose's, but not as a blue print. J.J, I feel, would recognize this and bring us a Superman film that highlights more of Superman's attributes of wonder more-so than what could possibility tear him down.
 
If JJ agrees to become Producer /director (or both) for Superman movie and agrees to set it within DCEU, Cavill should agree to play Superman again without repeating his demands, this is his only chance.

He can negotiate later if the new movie gets some success. If not, just recast and move ahead, I'm getting tired of uncertainity.
 
Thing is - I feel what superman needs and where he should go next on film - it needs a reboot...in the sense that it almost needs to start over again and build up from scratch - get us invested etc but the tone will be so different from what’s gone on before, but I don’t really want a reboot as such.. I like Henry, I like a lot of choices in the cast, aesthetics etc.
I still say a MOS2 set weeks after the events of MOS is the best bet. Use MOS as the foundation and build on from that - BvS, JL hasn’t happened yet and therefor, just do it’s own thing.. much like WW is contradicting comments from BvS.

Swannick is very much on Supes side but the military is not... neither are governments of other nations, Russia, China all want to know what is going on - was it really an alien invasion? Or just super soldiers created by the states! Government starts to take down media footage of the zod clash.. they need to contain it before they move forward.

Lois and Clark - we see their relationship blossom in the planet! We see him using the alter ego around the city - we see ‘natural’ Clark on the farm.. with his mum and Lois. We see superman make rescues and be the hero. We see military ban him in no fly zones - we see him interact and show the military what he can and can’t do - we see a cool race with a modern jet over Roswell - this also creates a buzz for the tin foil hat wearing conspiracists!
The Russians wonder if superman is the real deal from their failed ‘red son’ experiments after the war (a nod to the comic but in name only).
The bulk of the movie is Clark and Lois in the planet, metropolis - leaving a date night to go stop a robbery - we see them investigating intergang... the military is a sub plot until the final third. The world love him. He is this great hero.
The final third could be a rival nation consider superman’s presence an act of war and that if he enters international airspace they will strike him down. Tensions arise and fake news has superman ‘flying’ over Foreign land - superman averts a launch and attack, a race against time scenario with Lois and jimmy working together to stop it.

Focus not so much on the super hero.. but the super man!!!
 
At this point I honestly don't want Cavill back as Superman. Nothing against Cavill but I'm just kinda over his Superman. I don't want that version going forward anymore. Love Cavill, he seems like a good dude but I want a straight reboot. I want the character to start off on the right note from the get go, like iron man 1 did. Cavill had his time. The guy just turned 36 and nearing his forties. Time to go back to the well and get someone between the 25/30 age range and hopefully cast someone who actually looks and is tall. Cavill even said it himself in an interview for JL, he's the shortest member of the league, outside of wonder woman. I don't want a shorter Superman because that's not how I view the character from a visual standpoint. Let's just move on and get back to the basics
 
I largely agree, to be fair. And, to add to that, from my own personal perspective it would mean that Cavill could be the next Bond.
 
Would Spielberg be a good choice to direct Superman? I feel like Abrams is the guy you go to if you can’t get Spielberg.

A home made suit...... why? Well, in Dc world they have comics and super heroes in print look like that, so lana, his mum help him create a super hero suit to be that person - plus it's so garish it is distracting from clark.

They could even have his red trunks on as part of the whole “anything to keep attention away from the face” kinda thing.

#teamtrunks
 
Would Spielberg be a good choice to direct Superman? I feel like Abrams is the guy you go to if you can’t get Spielberg.



They could even have his red trunks on as part of the whole “anything to keep attention away from the face” kinda thing.

#teamtrunks
Yes!! I think the hokey, old school goofy approach of an explanation is best.. it’s home made with his friends and he likes it to draw attention away from his Clark persona!!

Plus - it’s how super hero’s look!! I want Clark to draw attention from that!!
 
Whenever someone says the next Superman needs to above all else be a "crowdpleaser" for the sake of winning back audiences, a fairy dies. I know what they mean, and broadly speaking I agree with the general sentiment, but I feel if you're not using Superman for some form of commentary, you'd be using him wrong. Snyder was a clumsy, often dreadful communicator, and Singer before him was no better. But I like the idea of Superman directors trying to elevate pop culture a bit... bc it is being done elsewhere, often and well. Supes is the most elemental of superheroes. I'd want it analyzed what that is in the face of the modern problems that make you grind your teeth when you scroll through Twitter for longer than 10 mins. I'd like a true big thinker for director, not just a formula person.
 
As long as I don't have to sit through another overly long kryptonian origin sequence... I think we know that story fairly well.
 
Whenever someone says the next Superman needs to above all else be a "crowdpleaser" for the sake of winning back audiences, a fairy dies. I know what they mean, and broadly speaking I agree with the general sentiment, but I feel if you're not using Superman for some form of commentary, you'd be using him wrong. Snyder was a clumsy, often dreadful communicator, and Singer before him was no better. But I like the idea of Superman directors trying to elevate pop culture a bit... bc it is being done elsewhere, often and well. Supes is the most elemental of superheroes. I'd want it analyzed what that is in the face of the modern problems that make you grind your teeth when you scroll through Twitter for longer than 10 mins. I'd like a true big thinker for director, not just a formula person.
I just want the viewer to walk out inspired... to think that under our plain clothes could be a hero that’s just pure and honest - who would not relate to or enjoy that? What WW primarily did for little girls as well as everyone else is what I hope superman does for young men and the rest.. the whole of dc’s rosta can inspire so much
 
Whenever someone says the next Superman needs to above all else be a "crowdpleaser" for the sake of winning back audiences, a fairy dies. I know what they mean, and broadly speaking I agree with the general sentiment, but I feel if you're not using Superman for some form of commentary, you'd be using him wrong. Snyder was a clumsy, often dreadful communicator, and Singer before him was no better. But I like the idea of Superman directors trying to elevate pop culture a bit... bc it is being done elsewhere, often and well. Supes is the most elemental of superheroes. I'd want it analyzed what that is in the face of the modern problems that make you grind your teeth when you scroll through Twitter for longer than 10 mins. I'd like a true big thinker for director, not just a formula person.
If it can be done straight out the gate and executed perfectly, no one would be opposed to it. But big ideas are a big ask of the audience, and right now there just isn’t active interest from the masses. You’re already on a steep climb in trying to succeed with grandeur plans, and compounding it with audience fatigue/disinterest seems like an unnecessary challenge to tackle.

“Simple” doesn’t mean dumb. I’d argue most of cinema’s beloved mass-friendly classics are easily digestible and relatively basic in their themes and narrative structure. Supes has the potential for high-concept, but foundations have to be laid to ensure it can thrive on lasting appeal. I feel it’s best to save that for sequels which are guaranteed and in demand.
 
If you aren't trying to say something, then it's simply about making money for studio.
I only care for Superman if he's being used for good, if the story is an attempt to enlighten the audience.
Having Superman be popular simply for the sake of it isn't worthwhile.

To me the heart of Superman is that golden age champion of the oppressed, come to shake things up, rattle cages and force the world to get it's act together.
He isn't an agent for the status quo, he's here to change things.

If he isn't pointing out problems and trying to make things better, he isn't really Superman to me.
 
If you aren't trying to say something, then it's simply about making money for studio.
I only care for Superman if he's being used for good, if the story is an attempt to enlighten the audience.
Having Superman be popular simply for the sake of it isn't worthwhile.

To me the heart of Superman is that golden age champion of the oppressed, come to shake things up, rattle cages and force the world to get it's act together.
He isn't an agent for the status quo, he's here to change things.

If he isn't pointing out problems and trying to make things better, he isn't really Superman to me.
Patty Jenkins can absolutely nail these interpretation. :super:
 
I don’t think anyone saying they want a “crowd pleaser” are asking for an entertaining-but-empty film. Crowds get pleased by inspiring, emotionally resonant films all the time, including those with social commentary, like Black Panther. I think most of us just want to see Superman get his heart and optimism back, in a rousing adventure that leaves people walking out of the theater feeling excited, and pumped to see more of him. It should have a “feel good” quality, imo, and it’s entirely possible to do that while having something worthwhile to say as well.
 
While BvS already tackled this concept, I still think a Superman film should focus itself on the immigrant story. I would just simplify the approach.

Standard three act structure rather than the five act structure revenge tragedy structure, and drop the religious allegory.

Keep Lex as the main ideological villain/alt-right proxy and use an actual rogue rather than Batman as the physical villain/incel proxy. That perceived impotency in relation to Superman is crucial to the social commentary.

Exclude the WW and bullet subplots and use that time to focus on Lois and Clark's joint investigation.

Keep the mounting disdain for Supes, but have Supes rejecting the narrative via more visualized moments of heroism. Allow him to talk about himself rather than relying on others to talk about him.

Last and maybe more controversial thing. If Cavill doesn't return, recast him with a POC. I'd personally look for someone of mixed race. Henry Golding type or someone who can pass for white. Hammer home the idea of this being a guy from two worlds and of his need to keep part of his identity under wraps in order to lead a normal life in America. Think of the many latinx/Asian performers who change their names to be more accessible.


Just a few ideas. As everyone knows, I'm a fan of BvS and I think its overall concept can be remade in a more crowd pleasing and easily digestible way.
 
I don’t think anyone saying they want a “crowd pleaser” are asking for an entertaining-but-empty film. Crowds get pleased by inspiring, emotionally resonant films all the time, including those with social commentary, like Black Panther. I think most of us just want to see Superman get his heart and optimism back, in a rousing adventure that leaves people walking out of the theater feeling excited, and pumped to see more of him. It should have a “feel good” quality, imo, and it’s entirely possible to do that while having something worthwhile to say as well.

I just worry that crowd pleaser will translate to lowest common denominator. I know it doesn't have to, but I worry about the idea of doing whatever it takes to be popular and maximise profitability.

While BvS already tackled this concept, I still think a Superman film should focus itself on the immigrant story. I would just simplify the approach.

Standard three act structure rather than the five act structure revenge tragedy structure, and drop the religious allegory.

Keep Lex as the main ideological villain/alt-right proxy and use an actual rogue rather than Batman as the physical villain/incel proxy. That perceived impotency in relation to Superman is crucial to the social commentary.

Exclude the WW and bullet subplots and use that time to focus on Lois and Clark's joint investigation.

Keep the mounting disdain for Supes, but have Supes rejecting the narrative via more visualized moments of heroism. Allow him to talk about himself rather than relying on others to talk about him.

Last and maybe more controversial thing. If Cavill doesn't return, recast him with a POC. I'd personally look for someone of mixed race. Henry Golding type or someone who can pass for white. Hammer home the idea of this being a guy from two worlds and of his need to keep part of his identity under wraps in order to lead a normal life in America. Think of the many latinx/Asian performers who change their names to be more accessible.


Just a few ideas. As everyone knows, I'm a fan of BvS and I think its overall concept can be remade in a more crowd pleasing and easily digestible way.

I like the idea of focusing more on the immigrant angle, it was touched on in MOS and BVS, but wasn't a key theme. I also like the controversial idea.
 
Some of the best Superman stories tackle some form of bigotry/xenophobia. The immigrant angle is always a relevant one, but feels especially so right now, so I agree it would be good to include that more in the next outing.

Last and maybe more controversial thing. If Cavill doesn't return, recast him with a POC. I'd personally look for someone of mixed race. Henry Golding type or someone who can pass for white. Hammer home the idea of this being a guy from two worlds and of his need to keep part of his identity under wraps in order to lead a normal life in America. Think of the many latinx/Asian performers who change their names to be more accessible.
I didn't like DJ Cotrona for Supes because of his complete lack of screen presence, but aesthetically, I think he has a great look for it (aside from his height), and Dean Cain's half Japanese and had a great look too, so I'd be totally down for this. Henry Golding could work looks-wise, but I'm not totally sold on his acting, tbh.
 
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While BvS already tackled this concept, I still think a Superman film should focus itself on the immigrant story. I would just simplify the approach.

Standard three act structure rather than the five act structure revenge tragedy structure, and drop the religious allegory.

Keep Lex as the main ideological villain/alt-right proxy and use an actual rogue rather than Batman as the physical villain/incel proxy. That perceived impotency in relation to Superman is crucial to the social commentary.

Exclude the WW and bullet subplots and use that time to focus on Lois and Clark's joint investigation.

Keep the mounting disdain for Supes, but have Supes rejecting the narrative via more visualized moments of heroism. Allow him to talk about himself rather than relying on others to talk about him.

Last and maybe more controversial thing. If Cavill doesn't return, recast him with a POC. I'd personally look for someone of mixed race. Henry Golding type or someone who can pass for white. Hammer home the idea of this being a guy from two worlds and of his need to keep part of his identity under wraps in order to lead a normal life in America. Think of the many latinx/Asian performers who change their names to be more accessible.


Just a few ideas. As everyone knows, I'm a fan of BvS and I think its overall concept can be remade in a more crowd pleasing and easily digestible way.

I respect your views, but i feel If handled incorrectly, that sounds like a Capt. Marvel level cringefest and could drop like a bomb.
You can see where this can go wrong...
We're seeing issues with immigration, let's show America its favourite boy scout is an immigrant too.
Let's have the alt right as the enemy because... MAGA.
Let's change his skin colour too because... straight white male isn't in vogue.

I do think lois and clark should be an excellent source of social commentary on issues effecting the states and world right now, but it has to be balanced with a middle ground - politics is a spectrum.
I do think Superman can be used politically, but like you said... tread so carefully.. audiences escape the real world for a reason with movies - i would use the angle of him addressing how the states took him in, the states looked after him and he now calls them home - the possitive effects of immigration.
Trouble is, illegal immigration is just that... illegal. Each nation has a duty of care and no matter how it's said, it is not wrong to want to protect the boarder, make sure a process is used and respected but also to do what it can with said neighbouring nation so that they can create an environment where people don't want to risk their lives fleeing. Ofcourse, an election campaign saying how a big fat wall is going up to stop all the rapists etc is not the way to go.
Alt right... too topical.. and lazy - didn't they want to do that with Thomas Wayne and Baldwin but he stepped aside?
Superman being a person of colour? Totally changes up the dynamics - no need to explain why as it has been done, well, many times. But where i would say BvS screwed up is superman dying to doomsday didn't open up a world of John Henry Irons, cloned Superboy, eradicator etc which then opens the door to way more diversity using the S, imagine the Eradicator superman being this asexual being - someone like a younger david bowie, so other worldy and cool and a nod, not a slap, to the lgbtq community. Anyways, keep these ideas flowing, they're interesting.
 
Lol but Captain Marvel made a billion. I’m not say that Superman should be some allegory for fully opening US borders. Or that it shouldn’t. But more than of the country Superman is based in understands on some level that racism and xenophobia are wrong. But there are terrorist groups who are home grown here with those very ideals and they’re acting out growing levels of violence.

Having a hero that stands up in the face of that, one who has a partnership with a strong female, and one who can physically represent both sides of the argument is exactly what we need right now. Yes, it’s topical. Being timely isn’t a bad thing.
 
If you are going to address social issues, there is going to be push back.
If you take a stand and say "x is a problem and we need to do something about it" there will be people who oppose you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't say it.

Many of the great causes were controversial in their day, doing the right thing often takes courage and sacrifice, but Superman does it anyway, and so should we.
 
Some of the best Superman stories tackle some form of bigotry/xenophobia. The immigrant angle is always a relevant one, but feels especially so right now, so I agree it would be good to include that more in the next outing.


I didn't like DJ Cotrona for Supes because of his complete lack of screen presence, but aesthetically, I think he has a great look for it (aside from his height), and Dean Cain's half Japanese and had a great look too, so I'd be totally down for this. Henry Golding could work looks-wise, but I'm not totally sold on his acting, tbh.

Henry Golding would be such an interesting choice in aesthetic and appearance that it may work as a casting. His look would be a total separation from what we've typically got and that could be a big difference maker. I always feel when it comes to acting, especially in CBM's, things can be learned if things aren't so one-note. Bad acting is bad acting but I feel an actor like Golding that may lack chops can develop in a role like Superman if givin' the right direction.
 
To be honest there are so many issues of the real world superman can tackle.... any hero can tackle in some form for that matter..

Thing is - with superman, he is held dear to people and where some want a poc, some don’t - both are valid points. Some want politics, some don’t.

Superman needs to be got right first and foremost.. does that mean you can’t take risks... Ofcourse not.. but I also think the audience are smart and know when the studio is trying to make a statement..
anyways... Golding I feel would be another Cavill situation.. I can’t see him pull off that American country farm boy vibe...
 
You don’t get to $1b without repeat views. People need to learn to accept that CM was well liked.

Also I said a mixed race actor for Superman. So you purists can at least enjoy half the character.

lol, wonder if MBJ is still on the wishlist for his version of the Sup? He's tackling The Matrix now...
 
You don’t get to $1b without repeat views. People need to learn to accept that CM was well liked.

Also I said a mixed race actor for Superman. So you purists can at least enjoy half the character.
Don’t be salty...
 

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