Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

You think that having most of his scenes edited out of BvS's theatrical version, barely being present for JL, mainly being absent from the promotion of the first live action JL film, and having most of his scenes refilmed in favor for a bad CGI Mustache cover up is being utilized well in all media?

Furthermore, he was portrayed as a irredeemable villain in the latest Injustice Game against the incorruptible Batman and wad literally replaced by Supergirl who became Earth's new symbol of hope.

The ONLY place where I believe that he is being used well is the animated death of Superman films.

Furthermore, if you recall on what I was like on the forums before MOS came out, then you would know that I was one who wanted and enjoyed being happy for Superman when it looked like he had a bright future ahead of him.

But once it was confirms that he was going to die in BvS, I knew right away on what that meant and I have been COMPLETELY right about every bad thing that has come so far.

You think I enjoy the fact that nearly every character is considered to be more popular than him nowadays? I don't. Not one bit.

I never said they were perfect and I think the issues with Superman in the BvS theatrical weren't there in the 3 hour cut. Snyder intended to release the full film into cinemas. The CGI moustache was all down to Cavill not been able to shave, I look at the content of those scenes and I like those scenes. Snyder didn't kill Superman as some slight to Superman fans either even if you like to act like it was done for that reason.

Injustice is a game, its just another version and its elseworlds. Its also clear in the game that that Superman isn;t the Superman of the normal DC earth.

What does popularity matter FFS, thats just childish. How do Aquaman, Green Lantern, etc fans feel.

Again these are all superficial traits with your Superman fandom IMO. The constant paranoia and pessimism is annoying.

I think some of what you said is part of the problem. You can see in each one of these cases that you mentioned (aside from the Death of Superman animated movie), it's more Superman adjacent or Superman taking a lesser role. We get MOS, and in the follow-up, we get Batman who got much more of the screentime and before the movie came out, there was a report that WB suits wanted more Batman, even if at the expense of Superman. Then we get the extended cut and find out that it was Clark/Superman scenes that were cut. Then, in his third movie, in the finale of a trilogy of movies around him, this glorious trilogy, it gets all kinds of screwed up between changing directors, Superman's scenes being reshot, mustache gate and all, and so on. So Superman played less and less of a role in these movies as time went on. The focus has been put elsewhere while we are still waiting for a true Superman sequel.

In Supergirl, you are right, he showed up. But he is in another person's show. It's still cool that we get to see him, but it's a small part. I wouldn't really count that.

Krypton is a good show so far, imo. I do like it. But this is pre-Superman, so it's more Superman adjacent. Still good though, but I wouldn't really count it as "Why Superman fans have it good."

All in all, I've maintained for a long time now that WB/DC has this weird relationship with Superman as they are simultaneously overprotective and underprotective. It's frustrating.

I'm not saying what they have done is perfect at all, I'm just saying as Superman fans we have a lot of content what do fans of Green Lantern have? A bad film from 2011, a short lived animated series and various appearances on animated series.

Superman is constantly been reinvented, we had George Reeves in the 50s, Christoper Reeve films from 78-87, Superboy, Lois & Clark, Smallville, Supergirl, Krypton. In animation we so many different series and appearances.

WB are idiots IMO but we they constantly go back to Superman. We don't have it bad at all.
 
They don't really need to have a fresh take on Superman. Just play it straight, that's all there is. Fans just want the classic take but played to modern sensibilities. That was ALMOST what we got in MoS. I have no doubt if they redid some of the more controversial elements in MoS (Pa Kent's death, snap-city), MoS's reception would probably do a 180. That film had almost everything, but the controversial stuff killed its momentum.
 
Well imho, if Supergirl becomes a big hit then I'm confident that Warner Bros will end up preferring to focus on making the S-Brand revolve around her and put Superman's franchise on a indefinite hold. They are mire likely to turn him into a major supporting character to Supergirl's franchise, especially since his own franchise has failed at every turn.

That just your paranoia and pessimism, there is no basis in fact that that will happen. As I keep saying they always go back to Superman.
 
This just feels like a cut throat negotiation tactic going on. One side leaked it.

With Garcia saying the cape is still in his closet, and WB release polite way of saying they good with him, but not his agent (my take on it). Somebody is going to give soon, as that THR reported, they need to shoot that Shazam cameo soon, if its going to happen. That cgi work with both of them in the same screen will take some time.
 
This just feels like a cut throat negotiation tactic going on. One side leaked it.

With Garcia saying the cape is still in his closet, and WB release polite way of saying they good with him, but not his agent (my take on it). Somebody is going to give soon, as that THR reported, they need to shoot that Shazam cameo soon, if its going to happen. That cgi work with both of them in the same screen will take some time.

Could very well be, one things for sure that THR article jumped the gun and got a few facts wrong.
 
I'm curious as to how they'll approach Superman's off-screen presence in Supergirl, or if they'd make it an issue at all. She's always worked as a complementary element to the Superman mythos, but I guess you could work your way around that to the point where it's not an absolute "must".

Having her cousin's legacy to live up to has usually been good fodder for her stories, though, and it's just a solid launching pad. I don't want to imply it's the one-and-only way to approach Supergirl, but it's something that immediately gives the film a basic premise. So it's easy to assume that they'll have to cast another Superman at some point... unless they took a route where no mention of her cuz is necessary at all.
 
Whether they jumped the gun or not, Man of Steel isn't getting a sequel anytime soon. So it just seems like wishful thinking that Cavill is putting the tights back on at the end of it.

It's Andrew Garfield all over again.
 
I have no doubt if they redid some of the more controversial elements in MoS (Pa Kent's death, snap-city), MoS's reception would probably do a 180. That film had almost everything, but the controversial stuff killed its momentum.

I don't disagree with you, but I can't help feeling frustrated by the fact that Jonathan Kent's characterization and the killing of Zod's were elements of the story that were not unique to the DCEU. It's odd that the two most controversial elements of MoS were classic/iconic parts of the Superman canon. More than that, putting aside the general audience's affection or knowledge of Superman canon, those two elements (overprotective/cynical parent and killing the villain) are not unique to the superhero genre and are often part of beloved superhero stories, including the highly successful DCEU take on Wonder Woman.

All of which is to say, I do think changing those two things would have helped, but it's the why behind it all that I find so bizarre. The only plausible and non-contradictory conclusion I can draw is that the thing that binds those two scenes together: powerlessness. It's not about "not muh Superman" or "superheroes don't snap necks". It's about the fact that a superhero -- any superhero -- should on some level exemplify or fulfill a power or wish-fulfilment fantasy.

Ultimately, there's nothing more disappointing than watching one of the most powerful superheroes either refusing to use his powers to serve a greater good or having to use his powers to do something terrible because there just wasn't another way.
 
There is all this weird energy going around this right now. I refuse to believe anything until I hear directly from someone high up
 
I never said they were perfect and I think the issues with Superman in the BvS theatrical weren't there in the 3 hour cut. Snyder intended to release the full film into cinemas. The CGI moustache was all down to Cavill not been able to shave, I look at the content of those scenes and I like those scenes. Snyder didn't kill Superman as some slight to Superman fans either even if you like to act like it was done for that reason.

Injustice is a game, its just another version and its elseworlds. Its also clear in the game that that Superman isn;t the Superman of the normal DC earth.

What does popularity matter FFS, thats just childish. How do Aquaman, Green Lantern, etc fans feel.

Again these are all superficial traits with your Superman fandom IMO. The constant paranoia and pessimism is annoying.



I'm not saying what they have done is perfect at all, I'm just saying as Superman fans we have a lot of content what do fans of Green Lantern have? A bad film from 2011, a short lived animated series and various appearances on animated series.

Superman is constantly been reinvented, we had George Reeves in the 50s, Christoper Reeve films from 78-87, Superboy, Lois & Clark, Smallville, Supergirl, Krypton. In animation we so many different series and appearances.

WB are idiots IMO but we they constantly go back to Superman. We don't have it bad at all.

If you compare it to GL, I agree. But that's by comparison. This is Superman, the granddaddy of superheroes, the most recognized superhero in the world. But so much of that is from past decades. Maybe saying we have it "bad" is the wrong way to put it, but I also wouldn't say we have it good either. I would say, as a Superman fan, it is constantly frustrating the way they often (not always) mismanage the character.
 
This just feels like a cut throat negotiation tactic going on. One side leaked it.

With Garcia saying the cape is still in his closet, and WB release polite way of saying they good with him, but not his agent (my take on it). Somebody is going to give soon, as that THR reported, they need to shoot that Shazam cameo soon, if its going to happen. That cgi work with both of them in the same screen will take some time.

This is what I'm hoping for as well.
 
No one high up is going to say anything. Until a new actor for Superman gets announced.
 
Doesn't have to be a solo. They might put a new Superman in another movie. Cameo etc.
 
I never said they were perfect and I think the issues with Superman in the BvS theatrical weren't there in the 3 hour cut. Snyder intended to release the full film into cinemas. The CGI moustache was all down to Cavill not been able to shave, I look at the content of those scenes and I like those scenes. Snyder didn't kill Superman as some slight to Superman fans either even if you like to act like it was done for that reason.


What does popularity matter FFS, thats just childish. How do Aquaman, Green Lantern, etc fans feel.

Again these are all superficial traits with your Superman fandom IMO. The constant paranoia and pessimism is annoying.

WB are idiots IMO but we they constantly go back to Superman. We don't have it bad at all.

The whole mustache thing could have been easily avoided had Warner Bros chosen to stick with their guns and not waste money in needlessly re-shooting Cavill's scenes. From everything that we have heard so far about Superman's role in Snyder's cut, he would have still been the superman that we were all familiar with just without the corny lines.

If they were always planning on removing Cavill from the equation, regardless of how JL turned out, then they should have let his scenes be. They ended up shooting themselves in the foot once more.

Honestly, I don't like this whole mentality that we have to be grateful for every small thing that Warner Bros dishes out and that questioning its quality means that we are selfish or ungrateful.

And my so called pessimism has been completely right and o the mark with every choice made for Superman's character in the DCEU so far.

Most of the people who have ridiculed me in the past for being negative about JL, when it was clear on how that would turn out, have yet to apologize to me for all of the insults that they threw when the admitted it themselves that JL was a mess and aren't happy with Superman's role in the DCEU heading forward.
 
I've been mulling over the news for the better part of an hour. Like most everyone here, I too saw it coming. What sort of perplexes me, though, is the idea that WB might not be looking to recast the role anytime soon, and is instead moving forward with a Supergirl film. It's not so much that I have a problem with the aforementioned character; I just don't see why one IP has to cancel out the other. If anything, it'd behoove all parties concerned to fast track both a Supergirl movie and a Superman reboot within roughly the same time frame.
 
I've been mulling over the news for the better part of an hour. Like most everyone here, I too saw it coming. What sort of perplexes me, though, is the idea that WB might not be looking to recast the role anytime soon, and is instead moving forward with a Supergirl film. It's not so much that I have a problem with the aforementioned character; I just don't see why one IP has to cancel out the other. If anything, it'd behoove all parties concerned to fast track both a Supergirl movie and a Superman reboot within roughly the same time frame.
Because putting Supes on a fast track is asking for another disaster. There have been two major attempts at getting this IP off the ground within 10 years. Both have failed. A third (failure) so soon will likely put the nail in the coffin for probably a decade. WB doesn't want to lose out on the superhero age, so they're understandably playing it smart.

I've no doubt they're working behind-the-scenes to get a reboot out, but they're not pushing it either. If tomorrow a big name like Abrams or Cameron came to WB and asked for Supes, they'd get it. But I've a feeling not many directors are knocking on WBs door right now. The best option would be to build the goodwill back to the studio, so talent comes rolling in doves and they'll have all the pickings in the world for the next iteration of Supes.
 
Yeah, another obstacle that Superman's franchise has is that Warner Bros have never actively pursued looking for a director to handle superman like how Marvel has.

The only reason why got Superman on film again, for both attempts, was because a successful director had approached them with good pitch.

So if no one approaches Warner Bros first then we won't get superman in his own film again for a very LONG time.

Warner Bros doesn't always return to Superman. They only take him off the shelf if someone interesting asks for him first.
 
Trinity movie in the future with WW, Supergirl and Batgirl. Bank on it.

Bank on it. Hell, people should place their houses on that bet since it seems like an inevitable thing right now.

Batgirl or Batwoman will take over Batman's role and Supergirl will take over Superman's.
 
Yeah, another obstacle that Superman's franchise has is that Warner Bros have never actively pursued looking for a director to handle superman like how Marvel has.

The only reason why got Superman on film again, for both attempts, was because a successful director had approached them with good pitch.

So if no one approaches Warner Bros first then we won't get superman in his own film again for a very LONG time.

Warner Bros doesn't always return to Superman. They only take him off the shelf if someone interesting asks for him first.
And now that Cavill (who was passionate enough about the character to purportedly push for directors like McQuarrie to the project) is gone too, chances of that happening are slim to none.
 
Bank on it. Hell, people should place their houses on that bet since it seems like an inevitable thing right now.

Batgirl or Batwoman will take over Batman's role and Supergirl will take over Superman's.

Oh, I didn't say it as a negative thing tho. lol

I would see that movie.
 

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