Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[STARMAN]

The Garfield transition was quick as you had Spider-Man immediately joining the Marvel universe, appearing there while having a new set of solos in active development. We're starting to drift into post Superman Returns territory where the sequel was never developed and Superman was in limbo until they decided how to move forward. Only acting when Nolan made the phone call.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I'm not saying pay is a non-issue, but I just don't think it's the main point of contention. Because it all hinges on Henry actually getting some movies, movies that are not in any stage of development right now. I had a similar conversation once with the company I am currently leaving.

"I want better pay and a promotion."
"Okay, well the pay you want is on par with our managers."
"Yes, exactly."
"Well, we can discuss a raise, but we can't really give you manager pay when we have no one for you to manage."
"I know, we need new hires."
"Sorry, but we don't have any plans to bring in new hires any time soon."

So, I walked and went somewhere that would pay me and bring me on as a manager. I Witchered them.

 

[Poppy]

The Garfield transition was quick as you had Spider-Man immediately joining the Marvel universe, appearing there while having a new set of solos in active development. We're starting to drift into post Superman Returns territory where the sequel was never developed and Superman was in limbo until they decided how to move forward. Only acting when Nolan made the phone call.

But MoS had it sequel, it even had 2. Superman had a whole trilogy so it makes sense for the studio to move on to new characters.
Cavill having cameos in Shazam and the other DC films makes a lot of sense. It's too bad he didn't want to do it.

 

[STARMAN]

I'm not sure I would want to do it either. He's been basically guest starring since MOS. Then supposedly appear in cameos without the assurance of another standalone. It's a commitment but not a full commitment.

 

[BH/HHH]

I wonder if in there minds it was cameos to rebuild the character in the public eye and build the excitement up for an eventual new solo film.

 

[herolee10]

But MoS had it sequel, it even had 2. Superman had a whole trilogy so it makes sense for the studio to move on to new characters.
Cavill having cameos in Shazam and the other DC films makes a lot of sense. It's too bad he didn't want to do it.

I think most people can agree when I say that the three films that we got from Snyder featuring Superman was definitely NOT a trilogy.

In order for this to be considered Superman's trilogy then he would have needed to be the central/main character for ALL three films.

 

[Dar]

Marvel had a lot more fan good will banked to make the Garfield to Holland transition less of an issue.

I'm not sure I would want to do it either. He's been basically guest starring since MOS. Then supposedly appear in cameos without the assurance of another standalone. It's a commitment but not a full commitment.

A bit like dating someone who's "always had great respect" for you but is never actually available for real dates, only coffee and group outings.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I think most people can agree when I say that the three films that we got from Snyder featuring Superman was definitely NOT a trilogy.

In order for this to be considered Superman's trilogy then he would have needed to be the central/main character for ALL three films.

The only one that jars for me there is Justice League. I don't have a problem with BvS being a sequel to MoS, and (who knows) maybe I wouldn't have had a problem with Snyder's version of JL as the third part (I remember Snyder talking about the three movies covering Superman's birth, death, and resurrection). But the JL that we ended up with didn't seem to progress Superman's story at all (other than the resurrection). Once he was back he joined the fray, and hey-ho the good guys won.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I think most people can agree when I say that the three films that we got from Snyder featuring Superman was definitely NOT a trilogy.

In order for this to be considered Superman's trilogy then he would have needed to be the central/main character for ALL three films.

Nah, not really. Thematically speaking, it's a Superman trilogy. Birth. Death. Rebirth. His story is the throughline for all three films, however we all feel about quality aside.

The Vengeance trilogy is named as such because all three films deal with same themes and come from the same director, but they don't share the same characters. There's the Unbreakable trilogy as well, which is actually connected but the first two entries focus on entirely different characters.

It's really just about narrative/thematics being the connective tissue.

 

[herolee10]

The only one that jars for me there is Justice League. I don't have a problem with BvS being a sequel to MoS, and (who knows) maybe I wouldn't have had a problem with Snyder's version of JL as the third part (I remember Snyder talking about the three movies covering Superman's birth, death, and resurrection). But the JL that we ended up with didn't seem to progress Superman's story at all other than his resurrection. Once he was back he joined the fray, and hey-ho the good guys won.

Well the problem here is that whatever concluding arc Snyder had in mind for Superman in JL was thrown out of the window the moment he left the project.

We have to also remember folks that before some of us choose to get invested again when the day comes where they introduce to us to their newest version of Superman that this is the same studio that had:

- Decided last minute to cut out most of Superman's scenes from the theatrical version of BvS in order to make it look like more of a Batman flick.

- Fired Snyder under the guise that they wanted to give him time to grieve foe the tragic loss of his daughter.

- Prioritize the likes of Harley Quinn, Batman, Joker, and even Supergirl over the man of steel.

- Allowed Whedon to release an clearly unfinished film just so that they could make their annual bonuses.

I mean I know that some are suckers for punishment but at what point do we have to get to before we all say enough is enough and that we won't going to put up with that crap?

 

[kguillou]

BvS I can buy as a legit sequel to Man of Steel (the ultimate cut of course). It picks up the story threads from MoS, and Batman is Superman's antagonist. Superman's actions dictate the whole film.

JL....is tough. Supes is in it for like 15 minutes and Batman and Diana are the only ones who get real character arcs. I have a hard time calling JL a "Superman" film.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Well the problem here is that whatever concluding arc Snyder had in mind for Superman in JL was thrown out of the window the moment he left the project.

So frustratingly true!

 

[herolee10]

BvS I can buy as a legit sequel to Man of Steel (the ultimate cut of course). It picks up the story threads from MoS, and Batman is Superman's antagonist. Superman's actions dictate the whole film.

JL....is tough. Supes is in it for like 15 minutes and Batman and Diana are the only ones who get real character arcs. I have a hard time calling JL a "Superman" film.

If Superman had not died at the end of BvS or had JL been as long as Pirates 3, with Superman's role being comparable to Jack Sparrow's role in that film then you could make the argument that he was a protagonist in JL.

 

[BH/HHH]

 

[herolee10]

I prefer to think of it as more along the lines of...

 

[MbJ]

The Garfield transition was quick as you had Spider-Man immediately joining the Marvel universe, appearing there while having a new set of solos in active development. We're starting to drift into post Superman Returns territory where the sequel was never developed and Superman was in limbo until they decided how to move forward. Only acting when Nolan made the phone call.

I meant less about speed and more about the interchangeable nature of the guy in the role right now. True, WB doesn't have a magic bullet in their gun like the MCU, but there's no reason they couldn't debut a new Superman in a well received supporting role or cameo to introduce him to audiences ahead of a new movie. In fact it was speculated for a while that they could be doing exactly that with Supergirl (if the reports of it being a 70s period piece aren't true).

 

[Legendver2]

But MoS had it sequel, it even had 2. Superman had a whole trilogy so it makes sense for the studio to move on to new characters.

You mean the 2 sequels where WB themselves hacked it to bits but somehow put the blame on Snyder and Cavill?

 

[Legendver2]

I meant less about speed and more about the interchangeable nature of the guy in the role right now.

As similar the situation is on the surface, keep in mind that Garfield's Spidey did not start in the shared universe, so it made sense to introduce a whole new version for the shared universe. Cavill's Supes practically started this DC shared universe, and we're talking about replacing that same character in the same universe with a different face. So similar, but different.

 

[herolee10]

You mean the 2 sequels where WB themselves hacked it to bits but somehow put the blame on Snyder and Cavill?

Honestly when it comes to the blatant disrespect and major mismanagement of a major comic book property, in this case being Superman, no company in the world will ever be able to top Warner Bros in that department.

The fact that Hamada is trying to pathetically repair the DC brand by reducing Cavill's role into mere cameos and neglect Superman's property in the meantime is a bad joke.

Their only approach to filmmaking has been and will always be throwing any kind of crap to the wall and to see on what sticks and what doesn't.

 

[MbJ]

As similar the situation is on the surface, keep in mind that Garfield's Spidey did not start in the shared universe, so it made sense to introduce a whole new version for the shared universe. Cavill's Supes practically started this DC shared universe, and we're talking about replacing that same character in the same universe with a different face. So similar, but different.

Well, YMMV on that one because how resistant you are to a new guy playing Superman is gonna largely depend on just how invested you are in the DCEU as a shared franchise. And right now, that level of audience attachment isn't really there. If they completely redo the origin? Yeah that might raise eyebrows, but I don't think a new guy wearing the cape would be as much of a hurdle as some think.

Right now I think what the audience wants regarding Superman is a good movie.

 

[Legendver2]

One of the more worrisome things, for me at least, is that if they do recast, what are the chances they bring back.........the trunks?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

One of the more worrisome things, for me at least, is that if they do recast, what are the chances they bring back.........the trunks?

 

[Limonade]

Honestly when it comes to the blatant disrespect and major mismanagement of a major comic book property, in this case being Superman, no company in the world will ever be able to top Warner Bros in that department.

The fact that Hamada is trying to pathetically repair the DC brand by reducing Cavill's role into mere cameos and neglect Superman's property in the meantime is a bad joke.

Their only approach to filmmaking has been and will always be throwing any kind of crap to the wall and to see on what sticks and what doesn't.

Pathetically repair? We haven't even seen what Hamada has produced under the DC label. All we have been seeing is just internal shake ups. Which is natural when new leadership is in. Let him produce something, first. Before we start any revolt against the dude.

 

[herolee10]

Pathetically repair? We haven't even seen what Hamada has produced under the DC label. All we have been seeing is just internal shake ups. Which is natural when new leadership is in. Let him produce something, first. Before we start any revolt against the dude.

He pretty much lost his Batman and will shortly lose his superman. Plus, it seems like he is only interested in using Superman as a cameo/supporting character for other properties while putting more emphasis on getting a Supergirl film off the ground instead.

Rule #1 for setting up a cinematic DC universe imho should always be in establishing and solidifying your versions of the World's Finest/DC Trinity first.

 

[MbJ]

He pretty much lost his Batman

Ben was already out the door and the writing was on the wall for quite a while. It's just that people were optimists and kept insisting his total disinterest during the press for Justice League and saying things about looking for a "cool way to bow out of the role" were not red flags.