Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[MbJ]

. After that, they specifically used a time travel movie to allow the continuity to change.

And it still doesn't match up or make sense, something the Deadpool films have joked about.

 

[flickchick85]

Oh, so she is the Superman in this world? Or is taking the role of Superman to Lois?

Pretty much. He does appear in it, but the whole conceit of Bombshells is that women are not derivative of any male counterparts and are the main heroes (transplanted to different roles/genres in WWII), so yeah. He's a male clone of Kara in it.

 

[herolee10]

But First Class was done in a different timeline, so it was the same Eric and Xavier, but they were much younger. It acted as a prequel. That's not the same thing. We aren't pretending that Logan saw completely different characters (aside from how they changed Sabertooth from X-Men to Wolverine Origins, which was weird). After that, they specifically used a time travel movie to allow the continuity to change. That would be akin to a Flashpoint movie. But if we are getting the same Diana and Barry and Arthur, etc, but there is no explanation as to what's happened with Superman, that's pretty strange to me, imo. And even if they do eventually have a way to explain Superman's presence in the future, the fact is, as of now, I have no faith in WB right now and have no idea what they are going to do, so it's hard for me to personally care.

Basically, our biggest problems right now are:

1. We have no idea on when we will ever see another Superman film again, let alone when the character will return to the big screen at some capacity.

2. We don't even know on whether we will ever get another Justice League film again, reboot or not. Not to mention; we don't know which members will return for the film.

Some may think that just because Warner Bros has the likes of Aquaman, Wonder Woman 1984, Shazam, and a Birds of Prey coming out in the near future (with the Flash somewhat close behind) that Warner Bros have things in order. But in my honest opinion, it looks like they are just winging it as they attempt to see on what will stick on the wall and what will just bounce right back into oblivion

 

[Nemeres]

I don't begrudge them the decision to diversify and set Superman aside for a while. If we were to step into the decisionmakers' shoes and actually think of it as a job, who knows what we'd conclude as to what actually makes business sense and doesn't. I'm excited for BOP, SS2, Supergirl and the like, I think they're good ideas for movies. A possible string of WW-style hits would turn the DC arena into "fertile ground" so to speak, and once we're there, they'll be able to do a lot more. Risk another JL, another Superman solo even. Dust off the oldies. By then, frankly, it will have been a solid 4-or-so years and people will probably find it very easy to accept a different Supes, even if he's interacting w actors who were introduced while Cavill was in the role. I doubt it would still be a hill to die on.

 

[elgaz]

Whatever way you look at it, Cavill was not one of the problems with the current take on Superman - and it's sad now that it looks like WB are going to drag this out for so long that he'll be too old to continue playing the character by the time they get their act together. He's 35 now, if they drag this out for years more he could be into his forties for any sequels.

WB are almost like a gambler who had his fingers burnt. They tried to go in for the big $ kill too early with BvS and a rushed JL (unlike Marvel's long game) and screwed up, now they're diversifying, spreading their risk and trying to strike gold with multiple smaller projects. That's a very financially based approach though, and in terms of story/characters/actors it doesn't do a lot for the cohesion of their shared universe.

 

[Superchan]

Right. I'm just trying to figure out where 2024 came from as the date for the legal requirement.
.

I thought the "special agreement with the Siegel family" meant that WB had to get a superman movie in active production every 5 or 6 yrs and if that's the case then expect to see the next supes film in 2023 and if that's case and we a get a good superman movie out of it then I'm all for it.

 

[Greenlite]

I'm guessing WB is going for

a) Harley universe - BOP, GCS, BOP vs GCS, their sequels, and SS sequels.

b) Elseworld starting with the Joker

c) more girls - Supergirl, Batgirl etc

d) GLC (personally hoping for McQ/Cruise)

e) original members Gal, Jason, hopefully Ezra??

f) reboot Batman with Reeves, and a new Superman around 2023/2024.

Then they will have Gal, Jason, ?Cruise, the new Bruce Wayne, people are familiar with them (people probably will be familiar with Ezra from the FB) , get a new Sup and you're good to go for a new JL and offload the workload for Gal/Jason/Cruise and shift towards Bat/Sup again....

If they aim for a girls JL, then Harley can be involved as well, and if they do end up with LOD sometime, then Margot's probably looking at close to 10 movies for the next 10-15 years, she's our Hugh Jackman basically, and both from AUS =P

 

[Micromind]

If not McQuarrie then I would say get Michael Bay for Green Lantern Corps. He would make it looks epic and blow things up a bit.

 

[BatLand]

I feel like the problem with a cinematic universe is it will always feel... unconnected. You know? Like with Marvel, the only real things that shape the universe are the events movies like The Avengers 123 and Civil War. Nothing in Antman has any significance over any other film for example. The connectivity in the solo movies boils down to Easter eggs and throwaway lines. That's what I feel the DCEU is going towards.

And I'm not saying it's a bad thing the movie makers get complete freedom to do their thing, but especially now if they're just going to ignore what's happened in the different films how is it EVER going to feel like it's a real, lived in universe? At least in SS the death of Superman sparked the entire film's premise, forming the Squad. JL happened because of Superman died. Wonder Woman, well, it's set in a flashback. But from the looks of it, Shazam (now without the Superman cameo) is going to be connected to the DCEU mainly from various Easter Eggs. I'm fairly certain they're not going to reference the events of Justice League in any way that matters.

Now that they're moving away from Superman, the whole universe will not make ANY sense, since if there's a world ending event the first logical question would be "where's Superman?".

 

[Tra-El]

I still believe that if we had at least gotten Snyder's original version of "Justice League" in theaters instead, thus getting a proper closure to Superman's arc (which began in MOS) then I would not be as bitter about this who scenario as I am now.

Frankly, the real losers here are anyone who considers Superman to be their favorite hero.

Even though he's appearing in the CW Crossover later this year, it's only for three episodes and we need to remember that he isn't the star of his own show (Supergirl is), so his screen time and presence there will still be limited.

All we have left is really the animated "Reign of the Superman" film for next year. I really don't count "Krypton" as a Superman show since he is not either A active character or main character for the show. It's just like how you can't consider Superman to be the main protagonist in "Justice League" because of how we see the aftermath of his death from BvS.

And the other frustrating thing here is that even if by some heavenly miracle we get a good superman movie several years later on, there doesn't seem to be ANY PLANS to bring our heroes together again. So, what's the point of calling this the DC Universe? Even if you bring them all together again in a film, since none of this is being planned out in advance, it's going to really show how sloppy Warner Bros producers are if they manage to crank out another JL film later on when the surviving league members have already done several films by then and will probably not want to continue playing their characters for another 10 years.

I do think regardless of the pulse now with whatever the plans are, it is constantly subject to change, which means future success of these films could change the outcome and landscape on how WB feels about greenlighting properties like Superman, who is once again, broken in cinematic standards. 6 years is a long time and it's an abrupt HALT from where we were just some very short years ago where we were blindly promised many things. When a DC Universe is continuing to be built and the likes of Superman just disappears, especially in a way we last saw him, that amount of time is an eternity and givin' Superman's status, the studio really should be putting in the effort to pound more Superman related material out in this CBM landscape and make him a standard. The bitter part of it for me is not that the previous movies underperformed or missfired in the ways they did..that's the nature of the beast..but the fact WB has ignored what to properly do with Superman since Man of Steel when the voices were loud and where they continue to be loud and clear. How all parties involved botched this is truly a sad result to witness but in 6 years if a new Superman movie comes along and blows our socks off, all will be forgiven and forgotten. Givin' WB's lack of care and puzzlement with the character, it would have to take some major convincing over the years for me to even trust the next take on Superman down the line.

Aleast we got the animations, tv shows and books to continue to look forward to. Might as well bury my face in the books in the meantime and enjoy collecting as well to get my Superman fix.

 

[STARMAN]

If they were immediately replacing Cavill this year that would be one thing. If it happens several years down the road it is easy for me to forget about his version and embrace another, especially if I like it. We're in that limbo period. Unlike before, WB can turn to several other comic book characters in the time being.

 

[_Superman_]

If they were immediately replacing Cavill this year that would be one thing. If it happens several years down the road it is easy for me to forget about his version and embrace another, especially if I like it. We're in that limbo period. Unlike before, WB can turn to several other comic book characters in the time being.

Agreed that's how it was for me with Routh. I wanted and thought he should've had another chance at being Superman but as time passed I was more alright with him not being Superman anymore and was more open to a new one. That's how I am with Cavill; I would like for him to com back to the roll of Superman but over time I'll get over it.

 

[Micromind]

I think had Justice League been moderately successful movie (for example, earning 900 mil. with a "fresh Tomato"), WB would have set the ball rolling for a Superman sequel.

Failure of JL put brakes on solo Superman movie.

 

[STARMAN]

JL being a big success was Superman's only chance. Otherwise they were never planning one. It's disappointing but I think it's better in the long run this way.

 

[heatvision38]

And it still doesn't match up or make sense, something the Deadpool films have joked about.

Not to the same degree that I'm talking about.

 

[misslane38]

Just off the oldies. By then, frankly, it will have been a solid 4-or-so years and people will probably find it very easy to accept a different Supes, even if he's interacting w actors who were introduced while Cavill was in the role. I doubt it would still be a hill to die on.

How do you imagine it would be handled? Would Diana, Barry, and Arthur be written as if they were meeting Batman and Superman for the first time, or would it be written as if they already know them? If it's the latter, how would they characterize their past interactions or relationships? Would Superman or Batman get to take a leadership position even though Wonder Woman and even Aquaman would seem to have more seniority? In addition, if a team up happens, will the Reeve Batman films or any Superverse related films imply connection to an existing superhero world prior to the team up? Basically, how do you imagine a JL2 playing out that would handle the transition? In addition, to set it up, at least one Batman film and one Superman film (Supergirl, if he guests, or his own solo) would have to be released, Flash has to be released by its newly announced 2021 date, Green Lantern Corps would probably need to be made and released, and if Aquaman is a success I can see them fast tracking a sequel like they did with WW84. That would put whatever JL movie at about a decade into the DCEU (MoS released in 2013). I personally don't see a lot of impetus to do another JL movie at the rate they're going and if stand alone franchises are what work.

 

[MbJ]

Basically, our biggest problems right now are:

1. We have no idea on when we will ever see another Superman film again, let alone when the character will return to the big screen at some capacity.

2. We don't even know on whether we will ever get another Justice League film again, reboot or not. Not to mention; we don't know which members will return for the film.

Some may think that just because Warner Bros has the likes of Aquaman, Wonder Woman 1984, Shazam, and a Birds of Prey coming out in the near future (with the Flash somewhat close behind) that Warner Bros have things in order. But in my honest opinion, it looks like they are just winging it as they attempt to see on what will stick on the wall and what will just bounce right back into oblivion

Another Justice League movie should be the last thing on their minds, IMO. If strong standalones are the way of the future, I can't say I mind that.

 

[Vlyse]

Cavill's Superman was done dirty by WB. What happened with BVS was one thing, but blaming the failure of JL as further proof that his Superman was unsellable was just wrong. He was MIA in the marketing for the movie and a glorified cameo in the movie itself, a total of 16 minutes screentime. That's slightly better than Letoker's 12 minutes. And what little we did see of him, people actually liked.

 

[herolee10]

Not sure if this is true...


EXCLUSIVE: WB Developing 'Superman' TV Series

If it is then I say that it is even bigger B.S. and that the folks at Warner Bros and DC are so full of it.

MOS proved that Superman can be a financially successful character. It is mainly when you try to shoehorn things into his story and that things goes bad.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think the task ahead of the would-be filmmakers is to learn what people love about these characters (truly love about them), and then to focus on that above all else. Let Superman, Lois, et al. inform the story, not the other way around.

 

[Tra-El]

Cavill's Superman was done dirty by WB. What happened with BVS was one thing, but blaming the failure of JL as further proof that his Superman was unsellable was just wrong. He was MIA in the marketing for the movie and a glorified cameo in the movie itself, a total of 16 minutes screentime. That's slightly better than Letoker's 12 minutes. And what little we did see of him, people actually liked.

It's a goddamn pitiful excuse if you ask me. Man of Steel, though divisive, still holds up as the second best reviewed DCEU film next to Wonder Woman. 56% is nothing to brag about but atleast there were many things left on that bone worth capitalizing on.

BvS comes along and so does the introduction of the new Batman. Even Snyder admitted less screen time for Superman because "Remember, Superman already has a movie to himself. BvS is Batman's introduction.." and even Cavill said BvS is more of a Batman movie. Then the studio cut more Superman/Clark Kent stuff out for more Batman so essentially, the studio used BvS to be Batman frontloaded.

Then a Superman that barely spoke in BvS dies, setting up Batman and Wonder Woman as the lead heros carrying JL. Superman was absent from the marketing and barely in that dysfunctional film where WB made Kal look like a bad blur photoshop gone awol. Meanwhile, another Batman property in SSquad bombs with the critics where Letos Joker was left in complete laughable ruins with the fanbase. A Batman that was more than front and center of the DCEU who deserves just as much, if not more blame and the studio is greenlighting Bat property left and right. But yeah, blame Superman for all of it and shelve him for almost a decade. Bull****.

 

[Jekecy]

It's a goddamn pitiful excuse if you ask me. Man of Steel, though divisive, still holds up as the second best reviewed DCEU film next to Wonder Woman. 56% is nothing to brag about but atleast there were many things left on that bone worth capitalizing on.

BvS comes along and so does the introduction of the new Batman. Even Snyder admitted less screen time for Superman because "Remember, Superman already has a movie to himself. BvS is Batman's introduction.." and even Cavill said BvS is more of a Batman movie. Then the studio cut more Superman/Clark Kent stuff out for more Batman so essentially, the studio used BvS to be Batman frontloaded.

Then a Superman that barely spoke in BvS dies, setting up Batman and Wonder Woman as the lead heros carrying JL. Superman was absent from the marketing and barely in that dysfunctional film where WB made Kal look like a bad blur photoshop gone awol. Meanwhile, another Batman property in SSquad bombs with the critics where Letos Joker was left in complete laughable ruins with the fanbase. A Batman that was more than front and center of the DCEU who deserves just as much, if not more blame and the studio is greenlighting Bat property left and right. But yeah, blame Superman for all of it and shelve him for almost a decade. Bull****.

Supes doesn't have a billion dollar series to his name that's still relatively fresh. Batman is still the marquee face of the brand despite whatever misfires have recently come under his name. Not to mention there's tons of leftover prestige that they can capitalize on and numerous creatives gravitate to. That's why he gets priority over Supes.

I see all this talk of what could've been, and ultimately all that potential amounts to nothing if it can't be utilized. This isn't isolated to the current era, no one has cracked that code for about 4 decades now. There's only so much effort that can be pumped into a single IP. All things considered, Superman fans should be grateful this character hasn't been buried yet. He's had more shots than any other superhero to soar to the top. Fans cannot condemn the studio for lack of trying.

 

[heatvision38]

Supes doesn't have a billion dollar series to his name that's still relatively fresh. Batman is still the marquee face of the brand despite whatever misfires have recently come under his name. Not to mention there's tons of leftover prestige that they can capitalize on and numerous creatives gravitate to. That's why he gets priority over Supes.

I see all this talk of what could've been, and ultimately all that potential amounts to nothing if it can't be utilized. This isn't isolated to the current era, no one has cracked that code for about 4 decades now. There's only so much effort that can be pumped into a single IP. All things considered, Superman fans should be grateful this character hasn't been buried yet. He's had more shots than any other superhero to soar to the top. Fans cannot condemn the studio for lack of trying.

Batman also benefited from having the best director of this era write/direct those movies.

 

[Jekecy]

Batman also benefited from having the best director of this era write/direct those movies.

Nolan wasn't the Nolan we know and respect until well into his Batman tenure. At their time of hiring, Superman had the more accomplished and popular creative teams signed to their projects. So this wasn't like Batman was given some sort of special treatment. That IP earned its respect and prestige.

 

[Tra-El]

It's that type of mentality that the studio must not fall victim to. You can't ride the coattails of the Nolan-verse forever because BvS-JL proved that reaching and slapping Batman into everything doesn't guarantee the outcome at the box office they so foam at the mouth over. Batman was still front and center of one of the worst botched attempts at creating a teammup movie in CBM history featuring the worlds most famous hero's. Batman doesn't come out unscathed and is indeed a wounded duck. The juggling of Reeves' Batman film proves inner turmoil. It's known though that getting the right creative patch's up prior mistakes and Batman has another great opportunity with Reeves. Superman is a pillar of DC and should be shown the same treatment no matter what Batman has done. Period. Singer may have been a hot commodity in 2006 but refusing a fresh take 26 years in the Donner-verse proved boring and uninspiringly lazy. Man of Steel had a shot but that attempt of Superman only lasted one film before..Batman. It could be argued that not giving Superman a proper sequel did the DCEU more harm than good. We've had 5 Batman's and 9 appearance's since 1989 and 2 Superman's and 4 appearances from the same time period. The studio hardly did anything with him with those supposed chances and when it looked like they had something going, they couldn't have botched it more.