Henry Cavill IS Superman: - - - - Part 13

[DKDetective]

Hope isn't necessary without reason for despair.

Of course not, that is not the point of my post. It was about the explicitness of the violence. You can portray despair in ways that are more family friendly and less visceral and explicit.

 

[herolee10]

Hope isn't necessary without reason for despair.

Indeed; plus, I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think a hero's victory feels more appreciated when we've seen the casualties that the villain(s) brought about since we know on how much worse it could have gotten had the hero not been there, let alone victorious, in their battle against the villain.

Which is why i still have issues with the battle of New York City for "The Avengers" since it felt like no one was really killed at times during the invasion.

 

[DKDetective]

Indeed; plus, I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think a hero's victory feels more appreciated when we've seen the casualties that the villain(s) brought about since we know on how much worse it could have gotten had the hero not been there, let alone victorious, in their battle against the villain.

Which is why i still have issues with the battle of New York City for "The Avengers" since it felt like no one was really killed at times during the invasion.

Of course, I was going to reference The Avengers as going too far the other way, but you have to admit the idea of seeing Zod toasting innocent bystanders in such a way that a pile of charbroiled skulls is left behind could be un-necessarily dark and explicit. The fact that this film has a very grounded aesthetic really multiplies the unnerving and shocking nature of the visual.

 

[herolee10]

Of course, I was going to reference The Avengers as going too far the other way, but you have to admit the idea of seeing Zod toasting innocent bystanders in such a way that a pile of charbroiled skulls is left behind could be un-necessarily dark and explicit. The fact that this film has a very grounded aesthetic really multiplies the unnerving and shocking nature of the visual.

Tbh, I don't think those skulls are a result of Zod's doings. I think that's an hallucination (nightmare) that Clark is experiencing since if it were really taking place, then he could have just blasted out of there easily. The dream could illustrate (represent) to Clark on what might happen to everyone if he doesn't defeat Zod, or maybe the skulls represent all of the dead kryptonians that died when Krypton exploded.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Maybe I should care, maybe I will come back complaining about how dark the film got but the rose colored glasses are stopping me right now. I empathize with most non stupid concerns so I empathize with you but I'm not there.

Of course I'd perfer it not be too violent (it's not R rated so it can't be that violent) but I also don't want what Avengers gave us.

 

[DKDetective]

Tbh, I don't think those skulls are a result of Zod's doings. I think that's an hallucination (nightmare) that Clark is experiencing since if it were really taking place, then he could have just blasted out of there easily.

True,but it is still a very dark visual even if it is a dream. It is the fact that everything is so hyper real looking in this film that makes it genuinely unnerving.

Maybe I should care, maybe I will come back complaining about how dark the film got but the rose colored glasses are stopping me right now. I empathize with most non stupid concerns so I empathize with you but I'm not there.

Of course I'd perfer it not be too violent (it's not R rated so it can't be that violent) but I also don't want what Avengers gave us.

Don't get me wrong, I still really trust Snyder and everyone given how awesome everything has looked, this just stuck out to me a little bit.

 

[Mad Love]

Of course not, that is not the point of my post. It was about the explicitness of the violence. You can portray despair in ways that are more family friendly and less visceral and explicit.

You could but that has it's draw backs. There's a difference between how violence is depicted too. Will it be gratuitous or will it be shown as hurtful or malicious? I think that's more constructive than sheltering from violence. Besides, the movie is still rated PG-13. Story-wise, it trivializes superheroes when they don't really have conflicts that match what their capable of.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

True,but it is still a very dark visual even if it is a dream. It is the fact that everything is so hyper real looking in this film that makes it genuinely unnerving.



Don't get me wrong, I still really trust Snyder and everyone given how awesome everything has looked, this just stuck out to me a little bit.

Honestly after Nolan, Goyer and Snyder came aboard I expected the movie to look something like this. Those 3 guys enjoy dark material and so I expected this movie to be darker than what people might expect. I guess I just got used to that idea a year or so ago so it doesn't really bother me all that much. I'm not saying I woukd have went this dark if I were incharge because I probably wouldn't have. As long as Supes is in character I can deal with the tone.

 

[DKDetective]

You could but that has it's draw backs. There's a difference between how violence is depicted too. Will it be gratuitous or will it be shown as hurtful or malicious? I think that's more constructive than sheltering from violence. Besides, the movie is still rated PG-13. Story-wise, it trivializes superheroes when they don't really have conflicts that match what their capable of.

I agree about the differences in how violence is depicted. I started out with the examples from Nolan's Batman trilogy. Despite the lack of blood and cutting away during Joker or Bane's executions, I highly doubt anyone would suggest that Nolan trivialized the violence in his films. It did not have a cartoony feel or depiction. What is SLIGHTLY troubling about Man of Steel is that it seems to have a similar non-trivial depiction of violence and tone in a way, but the violence seems to be more explicit and larger in scale. Hence, the SLIGHT cause for concern.

 

[elgaz]

As strange as it sounds, the skulls scene reminds me of this scene from Superman III

......... purely because it's the only other time I can recall seeing a live action Superman looking trapped and trying to claw his way out of something despite his massive strength.

 

[Mad Love]

Strangely the skulls scene reminds me of this scene from Superman III

......... purely because it's the only other time I can recall seeing a live action Superman looking trapped and trying to claw his way out of something despite his massive strength.

That scene freaked me out as a kid.

 

[herolee10]

To be honest guys, I've never really thought of MOS being "darker" as opposed to it just taking a more serious route than past films have for the character.

I always enjoy films, particularly ones about heroes, where the danger created in the film can really be felt by the audience. I remember on how everyone was just dead silent and engaged on the edge of their seats in my theater when we were watching the scene with Two Face and Gordon's son.

 

[herolee10]

That scene freaked me out as a kid.

It's kind of ironic that the campiest of the CR Superman films also had some of the most violent sequences and scariest visuals (back then) within the entire franchise.lol

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Eh, the movie does look darker and more serious. It looks like both of those things.

Certainly I hope the tone is less oppressive and relentlessly grim than TDK. That movie is great but it's tone doesn't lend it to too many rewatchings in my house.

 

[Mad Love]

I agree about the differences in how violence is depicted. I started out with the examples from Nolan's Batman trilogy. Despite the lack of blood and cutting away during Joker or Bane's executions, I highly doubt anyone would suggest that Nolan trivialized the violence in his films. It did not have a cartoony feel or depiction. What is SLIGHTLY troubling about Man of Steel is that it seems to have a similar non-trivial depiction of violence and tone in a way, but the violence seems to be more explicit and larger in scale. Hence, the SLIGHT cause for concern.

Yeah, the scale of the violence sounds big. But I think that reflects the times we're living in where terrorist attacks, mass shootings, and natural disasters are widely publicized. The recent past tragedies have particularly been devastating to young people.

I do get your point because I was wondering if the Oklahoma Tornado would be too recent a memory while watching Man of Steel's tornado scene. It could be too real and close to home or it could be help people relate and cope with their experiences. I'm think it will be more of the latter because Superman represents how people persevere and help each other during real crisis. It elevates the movie.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That scene freaked me out as a kid.

Heh. Me too. This scene also bothered me a bit -- from 3:51 to about 5:00 (especially when Clark cries out in pain).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL12bbRPUz4

 

[DKDetective]

Yeah, the scale of the violence sounds big. But I think that reflects the times we're living in where terrorist attacks, mass shootings, and natural disasters are widely publicized. The recent past tragedies have particularly been devastating to young people.

I do get your point because I was wondering if the Oklahoma Tornado would be too recent a memory while watching Man of Steel's tornado scene. It could be too real and close to home or it could be help people relate and cope with their experiences. I'm think it will be more of the latter because Superman represents how people persevere and help each other during real crisis. It elevates the movie.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm loving the overall tone and aesthetic of the film as it has been presented so far. The ants' view perspective of the chaos and the handheld shots are so incredibly effective in making everything feel so real and visceral in a good way. It makes Superman's heroism seem so much more epic and awe inspiring. I tend to be the type to prefer practical effects over CGI and miss the good old days of movie making, but this film is really turning my perspective around. Snyder seems like he is recapturing a lot of the reality of spectacle I find missing in modern blockbusters. My only concern is that a couple of moments of violence seem to be misjudged, but I could be and hope to be very wrong.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I'm all up for practical effects but there are a lot of things you cannot do with them. I don't think enough people realize that. If we didn't have CGI, we'd still be using stop motion. As flawed and misused CGI often is, it's way better than stop motion.

 

[DKDetective]

I'm all up for practical effects but there are a lot of things you cannot do with them. I don't think enough people realize that. If we didn't have CGI, we'd still be using stop motion. As flawed and misused CGI often is, it's way better than stop motion.

Agreed, in the context of a superhero film where you need doubles for persons who can move in ways far beyond the capabilities of ordinary human beings, but in terms of space battles between ships and fighters, I still think physical models have yet to be beat in most circumstances. There are parts of the Battle over Endor in Return of the Jedi that have yet to be surpassed.

 

[herolee10]

I think MOS may have one of the biggest body counts in recent comic book films' history considering that we have an entire planet and its inhabitants destroyed, along with a rural town in Kansas and most of a major city decimated by Zod and company.

On another note, I really do hope that if MOS turns out to be the success that we hope it to be, that Henry is able to get some major offers for some good films down the line and be the first live action superman actor to have several distinguishing roles.

 

[godisawesome]

Anybody else think that Cavill's line delivery of "I won't betray them" sounds really cool? He thrown an awesome inflection into some of his lines that just makes Superman seem like he's emoting through his voice, which adds a certain sincerity and charisma to the performance I really like.

 

[Project862006]

i am wondering if it is him voice sounds deep even for russel crowe lol

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I thought that was his voice at first but now I don't. It sounds older.

 

[Brian Braddock]

That scene freaked me out as a kid.

You aint the only one; freaked me out too. Especially when Vera got sucked in and turned into a Cyborg.

And,

about a year or so ago I found out that it freaked out one of my friends also, even moreso.

 

[Cassandra Cain]

So this will spawn an interesting debate: Snyder suggests that Superman isn't a virgin. Hmm. Full article here:

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/05/22/man-of-steel-superman-is-not-a-virgin/