Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by Thread Manager, May 17, 2014.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]477241[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]474371[/split]
Thanks! I was serious. I really don't follow movie news and I only sporadically checked the internet and email while I was away.
I just saw the suit. It's marinating in my head. Not sure how I feel about it. The bat mobile looked good though.
Yeah, I had to process it for a while as well. We don't have a color version yet, but here's a nice manip.
Follow this link directly if you wish to see a larger version: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnidPdSCUAAUCxG.jpg:large
Thanks! I really can't wait to see what they do with Wondy's outfit and what sort of "tweaks" they'll make to Cavill's duds.
I'm starting to get a little excited again...didn't think that could happen with this movie.
Definitely a "Dark Knight Returns" vibe to the costume.
The problem of course is that they can't import any of the Batman/Superman storyline into the film without major changes, because that whole
storyline is based on a quarter century relationship involving rivalry,
friendship and a basic philosophical clash.
Without Kryptonite, I'm not sure I can see a way for Bats and Supes
to have a fist-fight, given the power Supes displayed in MOS (and
considering that during the film he only gets more powerful).
I suppose Kryptonite, plus a suit of powered bat-armour might do it.
Actually, I kind of have this premonition that it's Luthor that will
come up with Kryptonite, and he'll have Supes on the ropes, and then
Batman will turn up and kick Luthor's ass - kind of a "he's not my
friend, but nobody messes with him but me !" kind of vibe.
On that note, I think Cavill really portrayed the essential qualities of Superman brilliantly, you can't even begin to make comparisons with
Routh - because Superman and Clark Kent are really just one character.
Rather than a caricature and the god with no personality, which is how
Routh played it (I blame Singer for that).
So Cavill had tons to work with. He's a better actor than Routh by far,
because whereas Routh's Supes only had one expression, many times
Cavill didn't have to say a word, but you know what he's thinking.
Example: he's getting pounded by Faora and Nam-Ek, zaps them with the
ol' HV, check out the expression on his face as he gets up (which is just before the copters open fire). It's like "Okay, is that all you've got ?"
And then the look when he sees the pilot falling. When Honest trailers criticized Cavill's acting, I was like "Whaaaat ? Did you even see the same movie ? " now I know they over-blow things to make a point, but like many
critics they were soooo wrong about MOS.
I love the film, but I admit it has its flaws (well, okay I can't see any, but there have to be a few, even the Godfather aint perfect) but seriously folks,
Cavill's acting isn't one of them.
Sure he's broodier than Reeve, but still earnest and kind, which is what Superman is all about. And tough too, his Superman gives a sense of being tough, which is part of the character IMO - tough without having to prove it to anyone. That really came out in the interrogation scene
"You afraid of me because you can't control me. You don't, you never will"
good lines, and delivered by a good actor. There was a reason why SR killed Routh's career, part of it's Singer's fault, but Routh just wasn't up to it.
Routh got the job because he looked like Reeve.
Cavill got the job because he looks, and can act, like Superman.
If They'd cast Gina Carano as WW, I think B v S would be vying for the greatest Super-film of all time.
but just IMO.
Oh, okay. So the Lex/Superman scene, where Superman says about two lines and is apparently so brain dead that he doesn't notice his power is suddenly diminishing, is a good scene because you say so. But my assertion that Cavill is a stronger actor doesn't count because it's my opinion. Gotcha.
Great post! The MOS Honest Trailer was pretty funny, but their skewering of Cavill was just stupid.
Criticizing the fact that Superman was played by an "Englishman", for instance. A couple things:
1. The character of Superman was born on Krypton, not in the United States.
2. It's actually possible to cast a person as a character of a different nationality than their own. In the biz, they called it "acting".
Then there's calling Cavill a "beefcake" with the "acting range of a crumpet". The latter is just flat-out wrong for the reasons you pointed out.
The main difference between MOS and SR for me was the Superman and the actor playing him. In SR, Superman was just not...superman. He didn't come off strong, confident, commanding, or...anything really. He was just there to stare blankly and all his "charming" moments were regurgitated Reeve lines delivered with no charisma. Routh didn't do anything. The suit and hair they gave him didn't do his image any favors either. Superman is not a "half way" character. You either embody him or you don't. Routh didn't. He was just awkward Routh the whole time. His only words to his nemesis were the blandly delivered "you have something that belongs to me." He was like a whimpy, wet-blanket (and no, not just because he got beat up, but because there was just nothing there).
Cavill on the other hand could come off commanding, confident, strong, charismatic when allowed to be, and even sad, joyful and warm. He had the "superman factor." The look they gave him did him every favor (expect the hair, that wasn't terrible, but also not ideal). His tone of voice was perfection for this character.
The fact that MOS included a superman that seemed like superman made all the difference. Even if I don't agree with all dialogue or plot choices, I felt Cavill was the character. There's a big difference between watching an actor attempt to play a character and watching an actor understand a character. Cavill gets it. He was able to help minimize some of MOS's flaws because his superness distracted me from them. Routh exacerbated SR's flaws because his acting was flawed.
Also, the fact that SR had less action than MOS does not mean it was character driven. It wasn't. It's superman was dull, it's lois came off like a petulant child, the kid...ugh, Lex was a caricature during every scene but the Kryptonite stab scene. Jimmy and Richard were decent (but Richard's presence created a scenario I didn't care to see). The "character" moments were often hollow filler. SR was just a dull movie that lacked action. It was not a character drama that made up for a lack of action by being interesting in other ways. It was a big nothing with the exception of the actor playing Jimmy, a couple ok Clark scenes and the plane rescue.
Anyways...sorry about the SR talk. That's just my two cents.
Well said, MrsKent, and I agree 100%.
Defenders of SR who bash MOS will often paint a caricature of the former as thoughtful, deep and character-driven while the latter is just mindless action, but SR didn't really have any of those positive qualities. It was just dull, Dull, DULL.
Yeah, I'm not an SR fan at all, lol. I only watched it because it was a superman movie (the previews were terrible and turned me right off). I thought "It's superman! It can't be that bad." But it was.
Cheers Axl, thanks for that. Yeah, there were heaps of reasons they could
have slagged of MOS, but Cavill wasn't one of them - in fact their comment
about letting innocent people die was completely wrong too if you count all the people Cavill's Superman saved, Lois at least twice, the Oil Rig workers, the school bus kids, the little kid in the tornado, the falling copter gunner, everyone on Earth - by giving himself up (because you know Faora was keen to wipe out Swanwick and all his tanks), and everyone on Earth a second time, by destroying the world engine, and the family, by killing Zod, and everyone on Earth a third time - by killing Zod, who was planning to wipe out humanity as revenge. Gee guys, Superman didn't save anyone ? Please.
Interesting that Honest Trailers don't mention that Wolverine, a Canadian,
is played by an Australian, or that Spider Man, an American, is also played by
a Brit (or that Thor is played by an Aussie) or hell, that Batman and Commissioner Gordon, two iconic roles, were played by possibly the best British Actors of their respective generation (while Scarecrow, and Ra's al ghul were played by Irishmen, and of course DC's greatest villain, the Joker, another Australian, and Marvel's greatest villain, Magneto, a German-Polish jew, is played by a gay Englishman). So you're totally right, the nationality of the actor doesn't matter at all. All that matters is the skill they bring to their
Sometimes it doesn't work (e.g. Sir Ben Kingsley as the Mandarin, but that was more about the actual way it was done, the story/writing, than the performance, which was hillarious).
As for Cavill, he looks the part (when he first walks out of the ship in the suit
I said out-loud "Wow, THAT'S SUPERMAN !" in the cinema)
He also clearly has an affection for the part, and does it justice. He may not be of the same talent as Bale, but he does a good job with the character, and his Superman is a likeable, regular guy.
I think it's good that Captain America is played by an American ( Evans does a good job, unfortunately the character is just as boring as he is in the comics, just my opinion, I'm not a Cap fan).
Anyway, totally agree with you. Cheers !
A couple of things about this:
-He's dropping hints about villains again, lol
-He's so nice to those TMZ folks. He always answers questions when they bombard him in the air port.
-His fashion sense is horrid. I find it endearing because it fits with his adorkable nature, but it's true. Those colors don't work together and that jacket doesn't fit him. Size up, Cav-el.
-Despite the heinous clothes, he looks damn good.
Hmmmm.. HC showing off his knowledge of the subject matter.
Man, that would be a great cliffhanger ending, with Superman apparently
dead at the hands of Doomsday, only to be revived in a subsequent
film (possibly with the JL ?).
Great to see the actor has bought into the character. Who remembers George Reeves, Tom Welling, Dean Cain or even the great Christopher Reeve for their other work (or tries to forget Brandon Routh for his own attempt at Krypton's last son) ?
If HC is keen to be Superman for the next decade or so, then I think the character is in good hands.
e.g. I hated Garfield as PP in the first ASM, but in the second film, I really enjoyed him as he seemed much more comfortable in the role, and really captured what Peter and Spidey are all about.
As such, I kind of see the same for Cavill, just sad we have to wait until 2016. Come on WB, get your **** together !
- He could be. Though it's too soon to be bringing out Doomsday, IMO.
- He's ever the gentleman.
- In this case, I think we're benefiting from his lack of fashion sense. Those pants are oh-so-snug in all the right places. Too bad they didn't make gifs of the part where he waved goodbye. Whew! The view was glorious!
- Amen to that!
Looks like he's thinking "oh god... go away".
^ He still takes the time to answer them though.
This immediately made me think about the black suit Supes wore in STAS: Brave New Metropolis. If someone made that \S/ red it would be just like it.
I agree with all of this. Like you said, some of the story choices in MOS were flawed, but you can't blame Cavill for that. To me, he still embodied Superman with his performance. He had a real presence as Superman, which is something I hadn't seen since the Christopher Reeve films. Can't wait to see what he does in Superman/Batman. Even though I'm excited to see Batman, Wonder Woman, Luthor, Cyborg, etc., I'm still more excited about seeing more Cav-El and Amy Adams.
Wow. That black suit image is nice. He wore a gray/black type of suit in that scene where he and Zod communicate via some mind meld, right?
The color wash makes both suits look dull and grayish.
Yeah, he did. It was a little hard to tell though because the scene was so dark overall.
If they ever do the Death/Return storyline, I hope they have him wear something similar for at least a few scenes; something like what he wore when in the comics in the Engine City storyline. Although I hope they don't give him the mullet.
SR has the dishonor of giving us the worst superman since TDKR and justice league TAS season 1 IMO!!!
In the film scientists discover krypton's (it was all a ruse by Lex, which we DIDN'T get to see) and superman just ups and leaves without saying as much as a goodbye to the planet or it's people. I personally have no problem with superman leaving to check for survivors but did singer and his boy writers really think that a character as noble and conscientious as superman would be so cowardly and feeble as to leave the people of earth high and dry without holding some sort of a press conference assuring the planet that he needs to be away for a while but he trusts the people of earth to get by without him as they always have.
Then there is the spying on Lois and her family or creeping into Jason's bedroom in the middle of the night; that was some seriously creepy stuff!
Other sins include wasting spacey's talents on a half baked copycat performance of Gene Hackman's lex and a Lois Lane who is remarkably annoying and mundane at the same time!
As for the lack of action, well to be honest I didn't really care, there were some cool sequences like the plane rescue and the bullet into the eye etc...... But I've always been one of those people who goes to watch movies for the characters with the action being the icing on the cake but instead I got little action and much worse a lame, creepy, inadequate superman who belongs more in a recent Frank Miller comic than a supposed revival of a long dormant franchise.
In the end I feel that the 3 minutes drone scene between Cavill and Swanwick at the end (as inappropriately placed as it was) showed me more of superman than I saw throughout the entire run of SR.