His webslinging still looks off

[November Rain]

I don't know how long spidey is supposed to have carried this superhero role for in this next film but I would have hoped that he would have cracked this webslinging thing...

alas, he still looks uncomfortable/unprofessional...

he still does that thing at the end of his swing where he tries to leap off for more aerial height. This is fine once in a while but it would be nice to see him reaching the top of his swing before letting go once in a while, it's rarely done, especially outside of a facial closeup.

also judging from his clip, he still lands incredibly uncomfortable with his body jolting forward and his legs aren't together when he webslings.

Now spidey is supposed to have better balance and be more articulated that a leading gymnast but judging from his clips he wouldn't make any sort of state final, let alone a national or olympic competition.


I know it's not necessary for what he performs but i've always had a problem with spidey being graceful in the films, and i feel he was at his best at the end of the first film but even then, he swings as if he's still unsure of himself and his movements in the air and doesn't always land with confidence, it's still looks like it's hard work when it should be second nature.

I know it's a minor thing to moan about but i have a feeling that those swinging clips come from the last piece of the film and hence the last piece of the current franchise and it would be a shame to see it go out with a whimper instead of a bang.

EDIT: Film's now released and i was right about the swinging it was pretty bad looking. Go to page 11 to give your views on it....

i can't even believe there wasn't an end one

 

[matthooper]

Couldn't disagee more. I've always thought the webslinging was the most graceful and most beautiful part of all the FX.

 

[Reikowolf]

the idea is to make him look agile but real.

the more flaws there are with him swinging the more believable he looks doing it.

body jolting = gravity
legs not together = realism (if they were together it would look more obviously CGI)

you are right tho... he doesn't move like in the comic.

but my rebuttle is also.. when he was knocked off the train in SM2.. that recovery (off the street, up the side of the building and the leap) was soooo comic book.. my fav part of the film by far

 

[November Rain]

Couldn't disagee more. I've always thought the webslinging was the most graceful and most beautiful part of all the FX.

i'm not against the effects per say....it's not the quality of the rendering and the believabilty of the scene...

it's more to do with the performance of the character in question.

 

[November Rain]

the idea is to make him look agile but real.

the more flaws there are with him swinging the more believable he looks doing it.

body jolting = gravity
legs not together = realism (if they were together it would look more obviously CGI)

you are right tho... he doesn't move like in the comic.

but my rebuttle is also.. when he was knocked off the train in SM2.. that recovery (off the street, up the side of the building and the leap) was soooo comic book.. my fav part of the film by far

yeah, that was actually the best swing scene in the film i believe. his recovery off the street all the way to saving those two people ock throws out was all decent.

saying this though, in the second film, his swinging weight altered quite a bit, sometimes he seemed light and pretty free (like at the beginning with the pizza and also that scene there and also the ones from the first film) while at the end it seemed more like a chore to get round those buildings.


i think web swinging is an area where disbelief should be at its greatest, and equivalent to the hulk jumping or supes flying, they should just go with it and make it look as beautiful as poss. Obviously when parker started he was horrible at it but there was beauty there and to follow from this i think each swinging scene thereafter his chase of his uncle's (apparent) killer should have shown improvement in skill and grace with more disbelief being incorporated each time.

 

[hyzak]

Moron...

 

[-Æ-]

I would believe that him jolting over in a landing would deal with him adhereing himself to the structure with his spider powers, thus locking in to keep him from slipping on incoming.

 

[The Joker]

Moron...

Yes, you are. If that's all you can contribute to the discussion. A juvenile insult.

Very mature

 

[November Rain]

It's all good Ock, sometimes opening a thread about constructive criticism can look like whining and i'm alright if some peeps see it that way, I'm just always looking for ways to perhaps improve the films of this genre but if some can't see it now then they never will.

 

[November Rain]

I would believe that him jolting over in a landing would deal with him adhereing himself to the structure with his spider powers, thus locking in to keep him from slipping on incoming.

but here is the thing...

if he was to do this properly, wouldn't he try to land with a much lower centre of gravity with all four of his limbs making contact with the surface in question.

so he would be landing in a flatter or more crouched or wallcrawling based position. everytime he lands with his legs, he looks like he naturally wants to use his arms but decides against it because it's not humanly natural, it's like his spider instincts are fighting against his human ones.

when he lands on the side of things or underneath things, he looks fine but when he's on top and wants to use his feet, he does that overrotation bit with his top half making him look very amateur.


here is the scene from the end of the first film where it shows some of his best landings, on the us american flag pole and it's a good one because he makes contact with all his limbs (plus he looks less restricted in movement)

i can't find the second film one on youtube..

 

[matthooper]

I just don't know how someone can be disapointed in the visuals of a "human spider" and how different it may or may not happen in real life.

We're talking about a man bitten by a radioactive spider with the proportional powers of a spider. How could anyone know or believe how it would look?

I've simply always thought pretty much everything looks great, and never tried to delve into the physics of a human spider.

 

[dark_b]

i only have a problem with the weight. i still think that in teh first movie he had weight but in the second he didnt.

the pizza scene looked very bad to me only because there he looked without weight.

 

[matthooper]

i only have a problem with the weight. i still think that in teh first movie he had weight but in the second he didnt.

the pizza scene looked very bad to me only because there he looked without weight.

But think how a spider moves and jumps, it's almost like they are weightless. We're talking about a super-human, he wouldn't land or swing or jump like a normal person. When a normal person does a similar "Spidey" move (which I know is impossible), every muscle, every bone, every inch of fat and skin would shake violently. This would look extremely stupid on film if you translated a real human body reaction.

 

[November Rain]

I just don't know how someone can be disapointed in the visuals of a "human spider" and how different it may or may not happen in real life.

We're talking about a man bitten by a radioactive spider with the proportional powers of a spider. How could anyone know or believe how it would look?

I've simply always thought pretty much everything looks great, and never tried to delve into the physics of a human spider.

because believe it or not, web swinging came from a real life idea or gymnastic work and also work on a flying trapeze as well as influences from tarzan swinging from a vine.

there are examples of humans swinging in the air and doing crazy flips and whatnot. All i'm saying is compared to them, spidey looks incredibly moderate, a real life version of Dick grayson would technically wipe the floor with his flair.

some would argue spidey isn't trained but spidey does have naturally a better sense of balance and agility.



if this was a strength thread and spidey in the film and spidey consistently looked as if he had trouble moving moderately sized object, nobody would see the problem in saying "yeah they should make him stronger, he's not even at 'world's strongest man' level" but for some reason the same shouldn't count when it comes to his acrobatics and he's allowed to come across as sloppy.

and don't use the 'man bitten by spidey' line as a cop out, we all know the deal with the character, it doesn't excuse it.

 

[matthooper]

because believe it or not, web swinging came from a real life idea or gymnastic work and also work on a flying trapeze as well as influences from tarzan swinging from a vine.

there are examples of humans swinging in the air and doing crazy flips and whatnot. All i'm saying is compared to them, spidey looks incredibly moderate, a real life version of Dick grayson would technically wipe the floor with his flair.

some would argue spidey isn't trained but spidey does have naturally a better sense of balance and agility.



if this was a strength thread and spidey in the film and spidey consistently looked as if he had trouble moving moderately sized object, nobody would see the problem in saying "yeah they should make him stronger, he's not even at 'world's strongest man' level" but for some reason the same shouldn't count when it comes to his acrobatics and he's allowed to come across as sloppy.

and don't use the 'man bitten by spidey' line as a cop out, we all know the deal with the character, it doesn't excuse it.

How could you possibly know how a super human spider would look and act? It's simply a no win argument.

 

[dark_b]

But think how a spider moves and jumps, it's almost like they are weightless. We're talking about a super-human, he wouldn't land or swing or jump like a normal person. When a normal person does a similar "Spidey" move (which I know is impossible), every muscle, every bone, every inch of fat and skin would shake violently. This would look extremely stupid on film if you translated a real human body reaction.

wwait a minute. lets make something clear .a normal human couldnt even swing through NY.

so if you would have webs coming out of your hand this wouldnt help you. you still would need strength,....
but even if you are stronger you still have weight. it can not look like you are flying.

 

[November Rain]

oh and i've managed to find the last 5 mins of spidey two, if you're patient the swing scene is at the end (just leave it on, on the backgroun while it gets to the relevant scene)

 

[November Rain]

because matthopper, i've seen that same super human spider in various forms of media over the years perform the same task and look professional doing so (or as professional as technology at the time would allow).

 

[gdw]

What he is doing and what his body is going through while swinging and landing is FAR more then what any Olympic gymnast goes through on the high bar.

The way he lands is neccisary given the momentum and force he is moving with.

Same goes for his legs staying together when swinging. Aside from the fact that it would actually look unatural if his legs were right against eachother, but there is even more G's on his legs then in a Giant on the highbar.

Also, he is NOT COMPETING!!!!!

Even olympic gymnasts do not force themselves to be so ridgedly percise outside of training and compatition.

He is just doingit as transportation, making a ten point landing is not his main concern.

 

[dark_b]

did they used motion capture in the first two movies?

if they didnt than it is that they do........ups i forgot they are finish with filming.

 

[November Rain]

What he is doing and what his body is going through while swinging and landing is FAR more then what any Olympic gymnast goes through on the high bar.

The way he lands is neccisary given the momentum and force he is moving with.

Same goes for his legs staying together when swinging. Aside from the fact that it would actually look unatural if his legs were right against eachother, but there is even more G's on his legs then in a Giant on the highbar.

Also, he is NOT COMPETING!!!!!

Even olympic gymnasts do not force themselves to be so ridgedly percise outside of training and compatition.

He is just doingit as transportation, making a ten point landing is not his main concern.

i'm not necessarily talking about the high bar, i'm also taking the rings into consideration but mostly i'm talking about circus performers on the flying trapeze as points of example.

although yeah, what spidey is doing is on a larger scale, his body is also highly equipped to handle it so it brings it all into a relative scale or 'pound-for-pound agility' so to speak.

nothing is a necessity, spidey's two footed landings are alwas usually preceeded by a high looping arc which is supposed to slow down his momentum and bring him to an ice halt, he did this twice in the first film, once just before reaching the goblin on the bridge and another one at the end swing sequence when he's going for altitude as well as slowing down his speed (loops the loop on the crane).

I konw spidey isn't competing but he should still be that good, that's what makes him a wonder. He doesn't work out but he's still ripped to ****, it's a similar scenario.

as for his legs, they hardly help his swinging at all, he rarely goes into a tucked in ball shape at the bottom of his swings which is more efficient than letting them just do as they wish. I don't mind if he puts flare into his swinging with his legs, doing crazy poses or what not, that' shows he's above the rest of us but letting them dangle behind him like they are lead weights is just poor show. can you imagine superman flying all over the place with his legs dangling behind him, he remains forever streamline during flight, his legs don't go lazy. Imagine a Namor or aquaman water equivalent where their swimming (although faster than a human beings) looks like someone is drowning with style.

you make a point, gymnast force themselves but to spidey this should be as natural as walking, even more so. I understand it's simply a mode of transport but to a veiwer (or at least me), it's not completely aestetically pleasing.

spidey's swinging is one thing that the mtv series manage to nail, he always looked graceful and at ease, without a mask on, i always imagine tobey maguire's face all squished up like he's got constipation while spidey swings 'loosely'

 

[Spider-Girl™]

I think they played with the idea of Motion Capture but couldn't get the desired fluidness they were looking for, and web swinging was too hard too mocap.

 

[Cinemaman]

Webslinging is one of the best CGI parts in Raimi's Spidey movies

 

[ultimatefan]

I don´t get what that´s supposed to mean. His swinging doesn´t and never will look entirely "photorealistic" - for the simple fact that a human being can´t do these things - but he looks perfectly graceful to me. In some ways, it´s easier to make Superman fly, cuz you pull the standing actor with wires and stuff, the body movement is a lot more simple.

 

[The Kid]

Yeah it doesn't look very real at times because he's a badly animated cartoon one moment and a stunt guy the next.

I agree. It's like the arguments about harry potter's flying. We all know the flying in the latest films is superior to the flying in the first harry potter. Why? I just think they do more blue screen and wire work instead of just cgi or maybe the cgi has gotten better. i don't exactly know but I just know when I watched chambers I liked the flying more than the last film's and so on with the next movie etc.

And god I hate kirsten's acting in this clip you posted except for the go gettem tiger.

But yes, absolutely. I'd love spidey's swinging to be believable in whatever sense one can believe a spider man swinging around. If it looks fake, I just know it, I'm human and I have an inate sense built in from birth of how objects move, and what you're pointing out about ways they can make it look more real might actually help. Landing on all four limbs for example is something I'd have never thought of...

I'm thinking that'd make him move more like a spider. I like when he uses all of his limbs connected to a surface when he moves. Spidey standing on his legs is just not an image I'm used to or think looks right... though I'm not saying he should never stand, but I think he moves more like a spider or cat, any animal that uses their limbs together to cling to a surface... They got it perfect again when spidey is thrown into the train and clings to the bar with both hands and feet. That looked good.

As for swinging. I want less video-game-ish camera movement for once. That definitely takes away from the believability of what we're seeing if it all looks like it came from Activision. And I'm with you on not breaking the rules. It's established that these characters are bound by physical rules very similar to our reality so if spidey for instance walked off a cliff unaware that there was no ground underneath him but stayed floating on air, we wouldn't believe it. It'd be cartoonish. And just because we don't know exactly how a spider-man would move, doesn't make him floating on air any less ridiculous.