Hollywood Needs More "Weirdo" Women

[Shikamaru]

I know the title of this thread might sound weird (no pun intended), but please bear with me.

I've been thinking a lot of what makes us so captivated to fictional characters - particularly protagonists in major franchises. By real life standards, almost all of them could be described as "weirdos". They all seems to have some sort of eccentric trait to their character that immediately captivate their audiences. Characters like Tony Stark, Deadpool, Peter Parker and Peter Quill all have their own distinct "funny" archetypes. They're not just funny because of their jokes, they each have at least one specific "odd trait" that fits so well with their senses of humor. Even in the case of straight men like Captain America, his straightness and out-of-touch personality is still played up for laughs to an extent.

Then there's darker protagonists like Batman and Daredevil, who aren't exactly funny but have deeply rooted psychological issues that makes them "weirdos" in a different way. Those issues are what separate them from the "normal crowd" and make them interesting. To quote Clair Temple from Daredevil Season 2, Matt is "far from boring".

The reason for this is obvious IMO. As kids and teens, we try our best to conform to whatever cliques we can and adopt to what we would consider "normal". As adults, most of us lose that attitude to different degrees. The more we grow, the more we have a desire to not be "normal" and to stand our from the crowd. Whether we realize it or not, we each want to have something about us that's very eccentric. We each want to essentially be a weirdo.

Here is where a lot of female protagonists tend to suffer IMO. Despite everything I just said, we seem to be totally against the idea of having "weirdo" female characters. It's as if we matured when it comes to our male characters (where "weird = good"), but are still stuck with our high school mindset when it comes to our female characters (where "weird = bad").

Of all the major ones I could think of...even the great ones like Katniss...they still seem significantly more "normal" than their male counterparts. They stand out, sure, but they very rarely have that "weird" aspect deeply ingrained in their personality the way the males do. We seem to accept it more when it comes to protagonists with psychological issues (Jessica Jones for example), but the other two options I discussed are just out of the question. The idea of a female character who is just as fun and eccentric as Spider-Man and Iron Man seems to be nowhere on the table, and almost viewed with hostility even by a lot of comic book fans. Only for those same fans to then criticize characters like Gamora for having no fun traits whatsoever, not realizing that what they're really complaining about is that she's too "normal" compared to the rest of her team.

It's not something we seem to talk about much, but I think it's one of the main reasons we don't have that many memorable female leads at the moment.

I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on this. Do you agree we need more eccentric female leads? Particularly more eccentric in the Iron Man/Spider-Man sense and less in the Batman/Daredevil sense.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

This is why I loved Gone Girl.

Amy was thoroughly crazy. Amy was totally interesting.

 

[Logan0327]

i get more captivated from female characters who are darker like lisabeth salander

 

[Abudefduf]

Yes! And I remember briefly bringing up this issue in the Captain Marvel thread, because I fear MS might turn Carol into another dull "strong female character" like they did with every single superheroine of theirs so far, instead of allowing her to be more like she actually is supposed to be.

I think it's because many filmmakers are still afraid of thinking outside of the box when handling female characters. Not sure if it's because they just can't help but focus on the "female" (and therefore, different! How do women work anyway?!) part, or because they fear some sort of backlash from the internet lunatics, I don't know.

Plus (just going by what I've personally observed here... I am not speaking facts!), I think people are generally way harsher when judging female characters. This is why Hollywood usually prefers to play it safe, imho.

 

[terry78]

I know the new Ghostbusters is trying to do that, where all the chicks are kind of quirky and probably not very socially adjusted. But there's still backlash for whatever reason.

 

[Shikamaru]

Yes! And I remember briefly bringing up this issue in the Captain Marvel thread, because I fear MS might turn Carol into another dull "strong female character" like they did with every single superheroine of theirs so far, instead of allowing her to be more like she actually is supposed to be.

I think it's because many filmmakers are still afraid of thinking outside of the box when handling female characters. Not sure if it's because they just can't help but focus on the "female" (and therefore, different! How do women work anyway?!) part, or because they fear some sort of backlash from the internet lunatics, I don't know.

Plus (just going by what I've personally observed here... I am not speaking facts!), I think people are generally way harsher when judging female characters. This is why Hollywood usually prefers to play it safe, imho.

Carol Danvers is exactly who I had on my mind while I was writing that. She's just as fun as real life Jennifer Lawrence, and real life Jennifer Lawrence is a total weirdo .

I'm a bit worried too. But honestly, if they make her comic book Carol and DC makes Wonder Woman more of a generic straight man archetype, I would not be surprised if Carol emerges as the more adored superheroine by the GA. For the reasons already stated.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Men usually get the best, show stealing parts. So yes, I agree, there needs to be much more of this. Because when you do, you actually create more original characters and situations and you open new doors that we haven't seen before in film. I truly think the inclusion of diversity will also create more original stuff.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Come to think of it most female superheroes have been played straight. I can't think of any that are wacky or jokey or eccentric.

Negasonic was Broody and Angsty and that made her stick out IMO.

 

[Sundancer]

Harley in Suicide Squad should be a comic movie game-changer.

 

[Shikamaru]

Harley in Suicide Squad should be a comic movie game-changer.

Harley is a villain though. Still, it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Still, women don't typically play really meaty and fun villain roles. Which is one of the reasons I think she's so popular. Actresses want to play a great villain just as much as a great hero.

 

[Double B]

This is such a fascinating topic and I'd love to hear more opinions on it because I find it so incredibly true.

Different medium I know, but look at Lara Croft. Crystal Dynamics have thrown the classic Lara under the bus, insinuating she has nothing more than a sex symbol for horny gamers and building up their new Lara as a 'real woman', a real character. The new Lara, soon to be the star of her own film, has no personality to speak of. She's the cliche 'girl thrown into tough situation and rises to the occasion'. She's Katniss but even more bland. What does she like? I don't know? What doesn't she like? No idea. Who cares? She's a total non-entity. A stand-in that bad things happen to and who keeps fighting. The old Lara, for all her faults (and yes the culture around her was wrong, and the marketing was outdated and sexist) had a personality. She was icy, cool, confident, empowered in her own sexuality and profession. She rejected a patriarchal arranged marriage and took like by the balls and lived it. She had feelings (more as the games developed), flaws and actually felt like a person. Was her figure realistic? Not at all. Was she defined? Hell yes.

Look at Joss Whedon. Whilst I find this view that he's the only mainstream writer capable of writing strong woman very silly indeed, nearly 20 years ago, he was breaking boundaries on TV. Buffy isn't a cliché. She transcended her clichés. She was more than just 'pretty girl fights back' - she had a personality. She had flaws. She had a sense of humour. Was she likeable all the time? Not at all. Was she at times domineering? Yes. Was she a fully formed character? Without a shadow of a doubt. It's why it was so sad to see people turn on Joss for some of his Black Widow writing decisions in AOU. Those scenes were not written with his usual depth, I grant you and "monster" was an unfortunate connotation but to see people from both sides of the argument (those sexist trolls and those who want to see strong female characters) lambasting Joss for a scene where Natasha mourned the fact that her choice to have a child was taken from her, was one of the most bizarre backlashes I can remember witnessing. It wasn't Joss reducing Natasha to being 'maternal' or 'feminine' but showing that all women, regardless of personality, have a right to choose what they do with their body. And should Natasha have wanted a child, is that a bad thing?

I do feel that in trying to create strong female characters, we're ending up with a lot of female characters that yes, are strong but lack depth and identification or uniqueness. There seems to be a rejection from these characters having traditionally feminine sensibilities or flaws because that will 'weaken' them whilst, when you look at the male characters, every one of them is 'flawed'.

Tony Stark is a bit of a prat. And it's ok if, sometimes, female characters are too.

 

[Victarion]

I know the new Ghostbusters is trying to do that, where all the chicks are kind of quirky and probably not very socially adjusted. But there's still backlash for whatever reason.

From the trailers, I think I'd like the blonde and that quantum physics chick. Same for David Ayer's take on Harley Quinn. Television wise, I'm a big fan of Game of Thrones' Melisandre, Arya Stark and Yara Greyjoy. In terms of fiction, a marine by the name of Hetan from a fantasy series is one of my favorite women. When they staged a hostile invasion of a foreign country, her squad literally did it pub crawl style - going from bar to bar getting wasted and executing lawyers, tax collectors and other bureaucrat types. I'd like to see a character like that on the big screen, too. It was really a funny set of scenes.


I kind of got this with Furiosa, but strong silent types akin to the Man with No Name would be neat. That or someone like William Muney from Unforgiven.

 

[Rocketman]

I know the new Ghostbusters is trying to do that, where all the chicks are kind of quirky and probably not very socially adjusted. But there's still backlash for whatever reason.

It's because it's an existing brand that people are passionate about.

Bridesmaids did exceptionally well and they were mostly all quirky characters.

 

[Rocketman]

For me, my favorite female characters ever are the usual suspects, but I agree, few of them are "weirdos" - they're thrown into "weird" situations.

Harley Quinn
Lisbeth Salander
Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)
Batgirl / Oracle
Dana Scully (The X-Files)
Wonder Woman
Annie Wilkes (Misery)
Trinity (The Matrix)
Catwoman
Sarah Connor (Terminator)
Ellen Ripley (Aliens)

The other problem is that most of these characters are second-fiddle to a male lead character.

 

[2kt09]

Paul Feig, Jason Moore, and now Elizabeth Banks are doing just that in re:Hollywood Needs More "Weirdo" Women.
Although, this seems to be limited to comedies if the upcoming Neighbors 2 and Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates are anything else to go by.

 

[terry78]

Yeah, you rarely see that type in non-comedies. When it comes to comic adaptations though unfortunately that is how a lot of chicks were written back in the day and they're adhering to their personas. Storm is a cool ass character but she's also very stoic. Like in Civil War all the female characters are either badass or just playing straight man to the more mouthy male characters.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The thing is most female characters in film are either cold, stoic and badass or the love interest.

 

[Octoberist]

Carol Danvers is exactly who I had on my mind while I was writing that. She's just as fun as real life Jennifer Lawrence, and real life Jennifer Lawrence is a total weirdo .

I'm a bit worried too. But honestly, if they make her comic book Carol and DC makes Wonder Woman more of a generic straight man archetype, I would not be surprised if Carol emerges as the more adored superheroine by the GA. For the reasons already stated.

Well it's TV, but Jessica Jones has a distinct personality.

If Marvel ever green lights Ms. Marvel, that would another one.

 

[Octoberist]

But I'll admit that it's rare to see a female that could keep up with a RDJ type. It's because Hollywood isn't even trying; instead they end up being the 'straight/up tight' one.

 

[Shikamaru]

The thing is most female characters in film are either cold, stoic and badass or the love interest.

That's my point. We're still stuck in our high school mindset when it comes to female leads. We dropped that mentality completely when it comes to male and even real people, but not with female characters for some reason. It's like our brains just deage to that of a teen whenever discussing any female lead.

 

[Logan0327]

you are not gonna see a comedic female character unless its a comedy

 

[Shikamaru]

Well it's TV, but Jessica Jones has a distinct personality.

If Marvel ever green lights Ms. Marvel, that would another one.

I already talked about that. We find it a bit more acceptable when it comes to females with deep psychological issues, but the other two brands of "weirdos" I discussed is just out of the question when it comes to the female gender. Not only that, but people even seem hostile to the idea sometimes even though it's the basis for why we like the male characters to begin with.

 

[terry78]

I think because it's still kind of a taboo to write a woman with flaws in fiction. It's much more normal to write flawed dudes. Either we get over them or they make us villans. I am not a fan 2 Broke Girls, hotness of the two leads aside, but from what I've seen, as sitcom-y as they are, they have distinct personas and are flawed characters.

 

[Logan0327]

go watch Shameless if you want a female lead who is filled with flaws,damaged and isn't stoic