Hollywood Needs More "Weirdo" Women

[Shikamaru]

I think because it's still kind of a taboo to write a woman with flaws in fiction. It's much more normal to write flawed dudes. Either we get over them or they make us villans. I am not a fan 2 Broke Girls, hotness of the two leads aside, but from what I've seen, as sitcom-y as they are, they have distinct personas and are flawed characters.

I wouldn't say them not being flawed is the issue. By someone being a "weirdo" I mean more that they violate social norms of how a "normal person" should act. Sometimes that happens because of a person's flaws (I keep going back to Batman and Daredevil), but it's not always true. Characters Tony Stark and Peter Parker aren't "weirdos" because they're flawed, but have a distinct mode of behavior that we're told is contrary to how a "normal person" would behave (and they both don't care, which makes them interesting). Peter and Tony still violate a lot of those norms even when having their strengths emphasized.

Having more flawed female characters would add more diversity, sure, but that by itself still wouldn't fix the issue. I'm talking going even bigger. The other two brands of "weirdos" I brought up would still be largerly ignored as far as female leads go. There shouldn't be any limitations to how different from the normal crowd a female lead could be, just as there's currently no limitation on how different from the normal crowd the male leads are.

I guess my point is that a lot of people are all talk about female leads. They want to fix the diversity issue, but they're not willing to fully abandon the idea of a woman not being allowed to violate norms to the same extent as a man. It's a double standard against women that even the most well-intentioned writers seem to have, and that's the frustrating part.

 

[Logan0327]

you are gonna find flawed female characters on tv more than movies

 

[BestGirl]

I think the problem is twofold:

1. Most writers are Hollywood are male, and therefore tend to prefer writing characters that they understand, i.e., who are like themselves.

2. I suspect a lot of male writers are afraid of being accused of sexism so they just go the safe route and create competent, but boring, female characters.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I think because it's still kind of a taboo to write a woman with flaws in fiction. It's much more normal to write flawed dudes. Either we get over them or they make us villans. I am not a fan 2 Broke Girls, hotness of the two leads aside, but from what I've seen, as sitcom-y as they are, they have distinct personas and are flawed characters.

It could be that I think the majority of writers are men and 1. they play it safe when writing female characters as in today's world if they write them with flaws and issues they can be called sexist and dehumanising women by radical SJWs. Nobody freaks out when a damaged or flawed male character is on screen but a damaged or flawed woman can cause backlash. Look at Black Widwo, he gave hew emotions and sorrow and pinning and was lambasted for making her appear weak and 2. It's easier as a man to understand and write male characters than writing women
.

Just noticed Bestgirl had the Same thoughts

 

[Logan0327]

i can name several very flawed female character and mostly on TV

Fiona From Shameless
Gemma from SOA
Nancy From Weeds
Clarke From the 100
Damages,The Americans,Orphan Black,etc.

 

[Abudefduf]

The idea that the lack of the Y chromosome poses such an insourmontable obstacle for some people's creativity will never stop being mighty idiotic to me, but that's a discussion for another time I guess.

I do feel that in trying to create strong female characters, we're ending up with a lot of female characters that yes, are strong but lack depth and identification or uniqueness. There seems to be a rejection from these characters having traditionally feminine sensibilities or flaws because that will 'weaken' them whilst, when you look at the male characters, every one of them is 'flawed'.

Tony Stark is a bit of a prat. And it's ok if, sometimes, female characters are too.

Very well put.

In the end I agree with what has been said in this thread so far: the main problem is just that most people, and that includes filmmakers, have preconceived notions about how women should or shouldn't act, and that is reflected in our mainstream entertainment.
Can you imagine what the reaction to the female equivalent of Tony Stark would be like? "Cool" is definitely not the word that would be used to define her, lol. But once they got over the initial shock I'm sure they would appreciate the breath of fresh air.

This is why I hope Kevin Feige doesn't drop the ball with Captain Marvel.

 

[Silvermoth]

You know who the best geeky outcast woman on screen was? Jan Brady from the Brady bunch movies. We need more outsiders like her

 

[Rocketman]

2 Broke Girls is actually an excellent example. The show itself isn't very good, but those two actresses are hilarious and fantastic, and they save the writing from being miserable.

 

[terry78]

The idea that the lack of the Y chromosome poses such an insourmontable obstacle for some people's creativity will never stop being mighty idiotic to me, but that's a discussion for another time I guess.

Very well put.

In the end I agree with what has been said in this thread so far: the main problem is just that most people, and that includes filmmakers, have preconceived notions about how women should or shouldn't act, and that is reflected in our mainstream entertainment.
Can you imagine what the reaction to the female equivalent of Tony Stark would be like? "Cool" is definitely not the word that would be used to define her, lol. But once they got over the initial shock I'm sure they would appreciate the breath of fresh air.

This is why I hope Kevin Feige doesn't drop the ball with Captain Marvel.

The word would still start with the letter c, though.

 

[BestGirl]

It could be that I think the majority of writers are men and 1. they play it safe when writing female characters as in today's world if they write them with flaws and issues they can be called sexist and dehumanising women by radical SJWs. Nobody freaks out when a damaged or flawed male character is on screen but a damaged or flawed woman can cause backlash. Look at Black Widwo, he gave hew emotions and sorrow and pinning and was lambasted for making her appear weak and 2. It's easier as a man to understand and write male characters than writing women
.

Just noticed Bestgirl had the Same thoughts

Reminds me of when I was reading PreviouslyTV during Agent Carter season 1. People were wondering whether Peggy would ever get a love interest. One poster said she resented the idea of Peggy being manless because it played into the stereotype of the celibate professional woman, unable to have a relationship due to her career. A few posts down, another poster said she hated the notion of dating Peggy because it would play into the stereotype that a woman needs to have a man to feel complete. I just inwardly facepalmed and thought, "This is why we can't have nice things".

 

[Jay Beezy]

2 Broke Girls is actually an excellent example. The show itself isn't very good, but those two actresses are hilarious and fantastic, and they save the writing from being miserable.

Brooklyn Nine-Nine also has a solid cast of ladies.

 

[Shikamaru]

It should also be pointed out the double standard doesn't apply to real life women. We love the fun and wacky ones like Jennifer Lawrence, Ellen Degeneres, and arguably Ronda Rousey. Real life women seem to have reached equality to real life men in this department.

It's only when discussing fictional women that people resort to this mindset. I find that both frustrating and interesting.

 

[2kt09]

Brooklyn Nine-Nine also has a solid cast of ladies.

We'll be here all day if we list tv shows. My favorite example is OitB.
Pretty much all scripted forms of television have been more or less fine with this and it's not even a recent occurrence.

 

[chamber-music]

Don't the manic pixie dream girl role fall under the weirdo banner? Jess from new girl is a 'weirdo'.

The better written women's roles seem to be on tv.

 

[DA_Champion]

I think you probably have a point Shikamaru. There's an absence of weird females, maybe not an absence but a relative shortage. You mentioned Katniss ... at least within the HG, if you don't find Katniss relatable, there's Johanna Mason, whom people loved in Catching Fie.

For a lot of franchises, there wil be fewer weirdo women because there are fewer women. For example in The Avengers, Black Widow has to be kind of generic and appeal to all women, because there's only one woman. When Scarlett Witch showed up, she was one of two and thus could be a little more different, though her personality is not that defined.

 

[I'm Old Greg]

i get more captivated from female characters who are darker like lisabeth salander

Lisbeth/Rooney <3 I read SONY Anounced TGWPWF Sequel during CINEMACON t:

 

[Doctor Jones]

A problem is there are too many concepts regarding women and when you get to fictional, it gets more convoluted. Still, this shouldn't be the problem from finding solutions. The key is, write women like human beings (shocking I know) and whatever the character calls for, write to that, and if they're three dimensional, they will take care of themselves. Don't worry about backlash because that's a loud minority and any reasonable person and women will especially be attuned to something done right. Women look for these things and want them badly and root for them to happen so when it's actually done right, it will be rightfully celebrated.

 

[TheVileOne]

I really liked Trainwreck, even though it has about 20 extra minutes that should probably be cut. I think Amy Schumer did a great job in that movie.

 

[Jay Beezy]

I really liked Trainwreck, even though it has about 20 extra minutes that should probably be cut. I think Amy Schumer did a great job in that movie.

When I first read what the length would be, it seems like a cardinal Apatow rule that his comedies need to be over 2 hours in length.

 

[TheVileOne]

Cut about 20 minutes from Trainwreck and the movie would be that much better.

What I'm talking about are not meaty character or dramatic moments. It's the indulgent stuff of like Matthew Broderick showing up for no reason or five extra minutes of improvising from LeBron james we didn't need to see.