How can the DCU upstage the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

[amazingfantasy15]

I'm still waiting for Marvel to make a movie that even comes close to what the Dark Knight, was.

I'd actually argue they already have done that with Captain America: Winter Soldier. That was an intelligent movie, being hyper critical of government surveillance. It was never going to be in Oscar contention though because it also didn't shy away from it's comic roots. Also, the movie was a huge game changer for the Marvel Universe, both on the small and big screen. The Dark Knight was great, no doubt, but I really don't believe it's the be all end all and I think Marvel found a way to top it. Cap succeeded on all levels in my mind and was frankly more exciting and action packed than TDK.

People are already burnt out on Marvels 3 movies a year approach and it'd be wise for DC to NOT do that.

Take a look at the top 5 movies of last year and tell me again that the general audience is burnt out of Marvel movies.

I would love to see DC become a powerhouse on the big screen the way Marvel is and I actually really liked Man of Steel. I didn't mind the mass destruction at all because it's probably what would happen if two superpowered beings fought, the criticism about Supes not saving people is lost on me, how could he have saved anyone, he was focusing on stopping the threat that would kill even more people. One way I could see DC topping Marvel is to integrate the TV universe with the big screen universe because they're killing it with Arrow and the Flash. Use the Daredevil approach and mention the mass destruction in Metropolis. They could've had Queen Industries sending aid to Metropolis. Also you have two heroes introduced for Justice League that way. The heavy hitters like Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern get movies, while Arrow, Flash, Atom stay on the small screen until the threat becomes too big and they help in the big screen movie.

 

[Parker Wayne]

I'd actually argue they already have done that with Captain America: Winter Soldier. That was an intelligent movie, being hyper critical of government surveillance. It was never going to be in Oscar contention though because it also didn't shy away from it's comic roots. Also, the movie was a huge game changer for the Marvel Universe, both on the small and big screen. The Dark Knight was great, no doubt, but I really don't believe it's the be all end all and I think Marvel found a way to top it. Cap succeeded on all levels in my mind and was frankly more exciting and action packed than TDK.



Take a look at the top 5 movies of last year and tell me again that the general audience is burnt out of Marvel movies.

I would love to see DC become a powerhouse on the big screen the way Marvel is and I actually really liked Man of Steel. I didn't mind the mass destruction at all because it's probably what would happen if two superpowered beings fought, the criticism about Supes not saving people is lost on me, how could he have saved anyone, he was focusing on stopping the threat that would kill even more people. One way I could see DC topping Marvel is to integrate the TV universe with the big screen universe because they're killing it with Arrow and the Flash. Use the Daredevil approach and mention the mass destruction in Metropolis. They could've had Queen Industries sending aid to Metropolis. Also you have two heroes introduced for Justice League that way. The heavy hitters like Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern get movies, while Arrow, Flash, Atom stay on the small screen until the threat becomes too big and they help in the big screen movie.

Arrow's been a disappointment this season, and this is coming from a guy who loved the firsst 2 seasons. Also, they have no plans to integrate the TV shows with the movie universe.

Also with Man of Steel's destruction, I just dislike more that everything about the aftermath of the battle was glossed over in the end.

 

[DigificWriter]

Marvel stays more true to their source material where DC is more likely to make changes from the comics.

This statement is unadulterated BS.... and I say this as a fan of the MCU.

 

[Doc Ock]

This statement is unadulterated BS.... and I say this as a fan of the MCU.

I think Marvel is truer towards the source material than the DC films seem to be so far. But yeah Marvel hasn't been fully true to the source material either, just doing a much better job of it. Although you could argue DC's "source material" is in a transition with the New 52 and such influences.

 

[Primal Slayer]

DC just needs to bring us good movies and characterization. There really isn't much they can do necessarily top Marvel imo. But they can get on the same playing field.

Arrow's been a disappointment this season, and this is coming from a guy who loved the firsst 2 seasons. Also, they have no plans to integrate the TV shows with the movie universe.

Also with Man of Steel's destruction, I just dislike more that everything about the aftermath of the battle was glossed over in the end.

1 season out of 3 isn't bad when you consider they make 23 mini movies a year. Call me when the bad out-weighs the good.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I personally don't see it as for the need of 'upstaging', Marvel Studios do their thing, WB / DC do theirs, room for both, different paths, as long the quality of the film from them are solid, which I have every confidence they will be, WB and DC will be fine, they have nothing to prove or worry themsleves with, the films will commercially work and the direction taken looks to be a very interesting one.

 

[Tg11]

With proper casting but also with good stories and what not then yes I think the DC Cinematic Universe could even be on the same level as the MCU or could even surpass it especially with the right directors and what not

 

[godisawesome]

I'd say diverse tones and styles. Marvel's phase 2 was more formulaic than phase 1, and I think that dampened some (though far from most) of their potential; I still love Thor as much as Iron Man, and those two have very different rhythms and themes in comparison to their successors. Iron Man set the tone for most of the MCU and do establish much of the formula, but Thor was the only movie to really stand out for handling the protagonist's and antagonist's stories in equal measure, and that's why Loki is still the supreme badguy and that's why I still regard Thor as having then east stand alone plot structure.

If Suicide Squad is a hitter, and BvS turns out to have a different feel to it than MOS, than Id be looking forward to seeing very different films of very different worlds that interact for DC. Worlds that are contradictory and fantastical in relation to each other, like neo-noir for Batman, scifi for Superman, High fantasy for Wonder Woman, fun and energetic adventure for Flash, and maybe grungy low fanatsy for Aquaman.

 

[Tg11]

But what movie will be the one that really sets the tone for DCU much like Iron Man did for the MCU in 2008? We all thought that Man of Steel in 2013 would do that but it didn't

 

[Primal Slayer]

Considering that BvS follows the same tone, I would say that it did.

 

[Grommers]

A lot of posts - and a lot I disagree with - Phase 1 in my opinion was the most formulaic style movies ever, here's the good guy, here's the bad guy, good guy loses/needs to gain his powers and control them - defeats bad guy once that is complete...bam AVENGERS.

Phase 2, they started going for a bit deeper of stories with Ironman 3 and Captain America 2 - still, i expected a lot more internal conflict for CA, and IM3 during it, and I quite liked the second Thor, but I only ever seem to watch marvel movies once - not because they aren't enjoyable, I just don't feel I gain a lot from re-watching them.

Still - a lot more questions that I feel the heroes would have asked, but I understand they want too keep it all very basic and able for the whole family too understand.


DC is not going too be afraid to question the audience in the same regard, I imagine some people won't like it because it isn't as "family friendly" but will offer deeper rooted questions, that may also cause the story to be convoluted a little bit more, but for my experience I'll enjoy that part more and willing too look past that as a flaw.



Overall - I think most people got it correct in saying they don't need to upstage they need to do their own thing. They'll have two different audiences, I'm personally not a huge fan of the MCU but love most of DC's stories.

If you wanted to go by overall revenue - DC can really rock the boat by doing a very deep more mature justice league with a really strong story too it - something more similar too tower of babel

 

[warhorse78]

This is somewhat of a fan dream answer so here goes.

Marvel beat DC into creating the first superhero shared universe on the big screen, but DC could beat Marvel into creating the first superhero shared MULTIVERSE. Crossover the Flash TV show with the Flash movie at some point and all other sorts of multiversal variations through the current running DC shows and films, don't build towards a Justice League film but a Crisis film.

Uh, I thought Marvel already did that, with AOS and Daredevil. Daredevil is definitely in the same universe, and it's just a matter of time when we see Matt in one of the movies or one of the MCU movie characters in Daredevil.

 

[warhorse78]

People have been making that people are burnt out thing excuse/argument for too long.

It's baseless and simply not true.

As Langstrom just said, look at the weekend receipts. Look at the receipts for every Marvel film other than TIH.

Or, look beyond the movies, what about DVD/BluRay sales, tv shows watched (DareDevil is the highest viewed show on Netflix, and according to some websites, it right up there as the most viewed show online with GOT) Then the nonstop of merchandise. It's going to be a long time before this stuff loses steam. Heck, TASM 2 was considered weak and dissappointing, but still, it made 700 million at the BO.

 

[Spooderman]

Uh, I thought Marvel already did that, with AOS and Daredevil. Daredevil is definitely in the same universe, and it's just a matter of time when we see Matt in one of the movies or one of the MCU movie characters in Daredevil.

No Marvel didn't, since Daredevil is in the same universe. Ock was talking about CW Flash meeting DCCU Flash.

Unless Marvel makes one of their cartoons live action, or buys the rights to Sony's Spider-Man, or Fox's X-Men, they aren't doing it.

 

[DrCosmic]

1. Make Good Movies

This was really well said multiple times and it's really that simple. If DC was doing The Dark Knight every time, or even every other time, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

2. Don't try to beat Marvel at their own game.

This is not only a marketing mistake, causing some to perceive DC's Dawn of Justice as a me-too of the MCU, but it's also a logistical mistake as they will always be playing catch up, and thus, unable to beat Marvel who have more experience and investment in this strategy.

3. Go bigger. Go deeper. Go farther.

Marvel movies play it safe. They'll never come with a Dark Knight. They'll never come with a Watchmen or anything like that. DC in trying to play it safe won't ever do that again either.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Are they playing it safe? Whether it succeeds or not, BVS seems to be playing with a lot of heavy themes concerning the ramifications of Superman's actions in MOS.

 

[smallville fan]

One area I noticed a big difference is that Marvel stays more true to their source material where DC is more likely to make changes from the comics.

I think Marvel is truer towards the source material than the DC films seem to be so far. But yeah Marvel hasn't been fully true to the source material either, just doing a much better job of it. Although you could argue DC's "source material" is in a transition with the New 52 and such influences.

The Mandarin says Hi.

 

[Tg11]

1. Make Good Movies

This was really well said multiple times and it's really that simple. If DC was doing The Dark Knight every time, or even every other time, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

2. Don't try to beat Marvel at their own game.

This is not only a marketing mistake, causing some to perceive DC's Dawn of Justice as a me-too of the MCU, but it's also a logistical mistake as they will always be playing catch up, and thus, unable to beat Marvel who have more experience and investment in this strategy.

3. Go bigger. Go deeper. Go farther.

Marvel movies play it safe. They'll never come with a Dark Knight. They'll never come with a Watchmen or anything like that. DC in trying to play it safe won't ever do that again either.

Probably the best response and if anything if DC uses this approach to their movies but also to build up franchises for sequels and beyond then I think DC will be fine or hell they could even potentially even be on the same level as Marvel as far as cinematic universes go

 

[Doc Ock]

Uh, I thought Marvel already did that, with AOS and Daredevil. Daredevil is definitely in the same universe, and it's just a matter of time when we see Matt in one of the movies or one of the MCU movie characters in Daredevil.

No, I'm talking about a MULTIVERSE. Establishing a shared cinematic multiverse instead of the regular cinematic universe that Marvel has. Marvel hasn't done that. Their if Flash TV show currently with a movie on the way that will star a different actor and take place in a different universe, they could establish these universes are connected with a Crisis type crossover.

The Mandarin says Hi.

Yes, doesn't change what I said.

 

[Parker Wayne]

The Mandarin says Hi.

The Mandarin is the exception, not the rule. Marvel has done a great job capturing the essence of their heroes, though their villains need some improvement.

1. Make Good Movies

This was really well said multiple times and it's really that simple. If DC was doing The Dark Knight every time, or even every other time, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

2. Don't try to beat Marvel at their own game.

This is not only a marketing mistake, causing some to perceive DC's Dawn of Justice as a me-too of the MCU, but it's also a logistical mistake as they will always be playing catch up, and thus, unable to beat Marvel who have more experience and investment in this strategy.

3. Go bigger. Go deeper. Go farther.

Marvel movies play it safe. They'll never come with a Dark Knight. They'll never come with a Watchmen or anything like that. DC in trying to play it safe won't ever do that again either.

It's not a bad summary. I don't think the problem though is playing it safe. I think the bigger problem with DC's movies is their failure to understand their characters in translating them from character to screen. Green Lantern failed because they wanted Iron Man in space as it became a movie that was derivative of other superhero movies instead of it's own unique thing like the comics are. I enjoyed Man of Steel, but at the same time I don't think it does a good job at capturing what makes Superman great.

With that said, the take on Superman in BvS sounds interesting, and if someone other than Snyder was directing it, I'd be even more excited about the movie. I'm glad Goyer was thrown to the side for Terrio though as far as screenwriter is concerned, so that gives me some hope for it as Snyder lives and dies by the screenwriter.

 

[warhorse78]

No Marvel didn't, since Daredevil is in the same universe. Ock was talking about CW Flash meeting DCCU Flash.

Unless Marvel makes one of their cartoons live action, or buys the rights to Sony's Spider-Man, or Fox's X-Men, they aren't doing it.

No, I'm talking about a MULTIVERSE. Establishing a shared cinematic multiverse instead of the regular cinematic universe that Marvel has. Marvel hasn't done that. Their if Flash TV show currently with a movie on the way that will star a different actor and take place in a different universe, they could establish these universes are connected with a Crisis type crossover.

Why would DC or Marvel would want to do that? All it's going to do is confuse the audience, and then just insult either the TV or Cinematic character in the end. And anyways, it's already been somewhat done. Not TV/Movie multiverse, but TV/Comic Book Multiverse. The Ninja Turtles did this with the cartoon movie Turtles Forever. They had the 80's Turtles, 2k3 Turtles and the Mirage Comic book Turtles interracting with eachother in the same movie. And, they are going to do it again, with the Nick Tmnt being added.

Either way, I prefer the way Marvel is doing it, making more heavier themed TV shows for the lesser characters and chugging out the cinematic characters all in the same univers.

 

[Greens]

It's way easier to just keep DC TV and DCCU separate. I don't see what the big deal is, honestly.

 

[warhorse78]

1. Make Good Movies

This was really well said multiple times and it's really that simple. If DC was doing The Dark Knight every time, or even every other time, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

2. Don't try to beat Marvel at their own game.

This is not only a marketing mistake, causing some to perceive DC's Dawn of Justice as a me-too of the MCU, but it's also a logistical mistake as they will always be playing catch up, and thus, unable to beat Marvel who have more experience and investment in this strategy.

3. Go bigger. Go deeper. Go farther.

Marvel movies play it safe. They'll never come with a Dark Knight. They'll never come with a Watchmen or anything like that. DC in trying to play it safe won't ever do that again either.

I don't understand, what was so unsafe about TDK and Watchmen?????? To me, I would think the most incredible, unsafe comic book movie would have to be the first Kick Ass. They had a 12 year old killing people with glee! That is far more out there, risk taking and in your face than anything TDK or Watchmen did! Heck, MCU already established that Natasha was a spy and being trained to kill since she was very young! How much darker do you guys want?

 

[Micromind]

Kick-Ass is not some A-list property that has a lot of expectations riding on it, who cares if it fails ? Not many people, Batman on the other hand...

Taking some popular A-list hero (who happens to be Flag ship pf your comic book brand) and making a layered, grounded and dark movie is taking a risk, in my opinion.

For example, I would have really appropriated Marvel Studios approach if they had made Daredevil movie (instead of Netflix daredevil show but keeping the same tone.) in phase 2.

 

[Micromind]

Either way, I prefer the way Marvel is doing it, making more heavier themed TV shows for the lesser characters and chugging out the cinematic characters all in the same univers.

Marvel are smart and they are playing it safe, they know, for instance, in order to get widest possible appeal and widest possible demographic they need to make lighthearted - fun movies without tackling darker, real world issues in their movie-verse, Fiege has stated as much, they are not going in the darker direction in their movies.

Now, they have gone in darker direction on Netflix which allows them to go dark without being subjected to network ratings approval and for Daredevil, they must have known that a darker movie on Daredevil will be difficult to fit with other marvel movies, to say nothing about how much success it will enjoy at the Box Office.