Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by DACrowe, Jul 31, 2012.
It's fun learning of the new Nolanites in this thread.
Fanboys and traditionalists/purists will (and have) seek every reason to hate Nolan's vision. It's been present since Batman Begins. Yet, the general audience adored Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy, and the new franchise will have an uphill battle because of it (especially if a new film is released three years from now).
TASM is a prime example.
I sometimes wonder who the minority is? People who blindly follow Nolan into the deepest depths....?
Or people who think it's cool to diss the Nolan movies/fans for shock value? (i.e. "This trilogy isn't even remotely good, or Bat-like.")
I doubt there are many people out there that actually 'hate' Nolan. Its literally impossible to look at his body of work and not admit he's got some serious talent. I think its pretty much his fans that do most of the damage. There's an insufferable faction of his fanbase that think the man can do now wrong. Its fascinating really, not even Kubrick/Spielberg fans who have a much better reason to be obnoxious dont hold a candle to the Nolan brigade.
I've never heard anyone say that.
I think that's it. People tend to forget, we're just watching movies.
I was thinking more in term of how it got there. No Batman Begins probably means no Avengers. It's funny, no character has shaped the course of superhero films more than Batman.
You can't be serious. I give Batman his props, but this is overreaching.
No. That credit goes to Superman.
Depends on how you look at it. Batman and Robin changed studios additude towards the genre, then Batman Begins became a big influence for the genre, at least two films have it as reference, one of which began the road to Avengers. So I think it's a fair statement.
Yeah, except, that Blade, X-Men, Daredevil, and Spider-Man all came out prior to BB and after B&R; BB was no more of a road-paver to Avengers than the super hero movies that came before it.
Superman was the pioneer, but has never changed the course of the genre.
I think you've misinterperated me a bit.
You said without Batman Begins, there would be no Avengers, to which I say is kind of bull.
I said 'probably'. If Begins doesn't exist then IM influence comes from elsewhere and who knows how it may have turned out. Could have been bad, could have been good, and maybe Marvels movies do eventuate, but I'm betting the Avengers is less likely to have existed without Begins influencing Favreau first and foremost.
Again, to that I call bull. The origin story of superheroes, as intricate as BB, has been done before BB did it, and it wasn't like BB was a box office sensation where other studios felt the need to copy it or take pointers from it.
But it's a completely different movie without Begins.
I think your both right in a sense. Spiderman was really the first huge box office comic book smash of this past generation. I think regardless of anything else, Marvel became aware of the willingness of the public to embrace films like this on a large scale again. X-men, and to a smaller extent Blade, hardly ever get credit for re-starting the comic book film as a serious form of entertainment, but they certainly paved the way for Spiderman.
Batman Begins however, showed that you could definitely go another way with this material and still succeed. BB itself wasn't the huge money maker TDK was, but it was the precursor for not only more serious interpretations, but also the reboot.
Since BB, Hulk, X-men, Superman, Spiderman, Punisher etc, have all benefited from the knowledge that the audience will indeed forgive you if you come back and try to get it right within 5 years or so. Before, if the franchise flamed out, it was pretty much left for dead. And if not dead, it would be years before they even thought about trying it again.
I would also say that BB helped usher in the "origin/prequel" story as much more viable than it was before. Star Trek, Casino Royale, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, I'm not saying every movie that delves into the beginnings of it's protagonists have BB to thank, but more often then not, it's cited as an influence on that particular film.
Didn't even think outside the genre, good point.
Really now. Because I was under the impression that it in large part began the course of the genre.
Let's hear from Christopher Nolan:
Superman II: Clark gives up his superpowers to live as a normal human.
Spider-Man 2: Peter Parker loses his powers and starts reverting back to what he was.
The Dark Knight: Bruce Wayne wants to hang up his mantle and live as a civilian with Rachel.
Again, the pioneer.
Haven't a lot of people already turned on it?
Good time to bring back this thread.
After all, read this one: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=400837
By the time we get a reboot in three to five years, fans will positively loath this trilogy and insist they always did.
It is the fan community's circle of life. Be ready.
It'll probably always stand as my favorite and what I consider to be the most consistently brilliant and layered trilogies of all time, but I also would love to see a new direction. Hopefully people can realize more than one interpretation can be loved. Still, everytime I watch any of the DK trilogy, they just get better.
Man I can't wait for those people to pop up.