How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Anne Hathaway, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Macphisto

    Macphisto Well-Known Member

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    He's limping badly after taking the fall at the end of TDK. That's all I got with regards to the leg injury (that magically disappears).
     
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  2. KalMart

    KalMart 239-Bean Irish Chili

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    In case he did have to come back....but the need never arose until eight years later.
    He was shot. If that shattered the bone and affected nerves it could be a lifelong issue....especially if he tried to treat the injury himself and hide it from going to a hospital.

    They don't need to be, except for someone who for whatever reason is looking for more than what this movie is presenting. That's the someone's cross to bear, not the film's.
     
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  3. Mysteryman

    Mysteryman Well-Known Member

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    If there were a 2 year frame than the 1 year period period The Joker referred to could be right after Batman showed up,
    The end of BB.
    Things were still in flux back then.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  4. the_monk

    the_monk Well-Known Member

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    I think some people are being too liberal with this "last confirmed sighting" terminology. "Last confirmed" most likely implies that, as you would expect, people reported sightings that were false. You know, like how there aren't any "confirmed sightings" of Bigfoot.

    I'm willing to bet he stopped going out as Batman after the night Dent was killed, and devoted his time to rebuilding the Batcave, in case Batman was needed again.
     
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  5. Homer J. Fong

    Homer J. Fong Not a golem

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    I take it that there's a year at most from the time Batman first appears to the time The Dark Knight begins. Batman Begins only seems to span a couple of weeks or so, and The Dark Knight maybe a couple months. I'm guessing, as I've never noticed or sought out the specifics. I don't particularly care about how long Bruce acts as Batman - someone employed the quote, "It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage," which is not only a great line and reference, but a great, succinct summation of it.

    I do care about when Bruce stopped acting as Batman after the end of TDK, though. Now, the film clearly implies that Bruce did not act as Batman after Dent died. I'm one of those people clinging to that "confirmed" because I can't make sense of some things or can't deal with some things (and I'm pretty sure that word "confirmed" is in there partly so that we can do some theorizing, because if Nolan was super-committed to saying Dent's last night was also Batman's last night for eight years, he wouldn't have let the phrase "confirmed sighting" stay through draft after draft). I complained about it on the thread about the eight-year gap idea, but let me explain my issues here:

    1) It seems awfully out of character for him to promptly hang up the cape and cowl after the night of Dent's death, his crimes, and agreeing to take the fall for those crimes. He can take it...and then he decides he can't? Or does he just decide not to?

    2) As has already been pointed out, well, at length, the Dent Act couldn't possibly have gone into effect quickly - not in this universe. If this were the form of reality presented in the Burton or Schumacher movies, I'd go with that, but it's not. And if Batman retired long before the Dent Act was enacted, then I have to go back to the "feels out of character" argument. I'd like to know how long after Dent's death the Dent Act was created, passed, what have you.

    3) This one is much smaller, but I too have to ask: Why complete the Batcave if it's not going to be used? Now, one could argue that Alfred's, "You haven't been down here in a long time," line does make sense if he and Bruce were building it before/up to the creation of the Dent Act, but afterward it was never properly used. I don't know if that entirely works, but the question of, "Why is the Batcave complete if he retired right after Harvey died?" is not the biggest of these.

    4) It nags at me that I can't even imagine this Batman and this Joker encountering each other again after the events of TDK. As I've said before, I know that the, "I think you and I are destined to do this forever," line was more a nod to that eternal battle that we know so well from the overall Batman mythology than an atual promise for this Batman-Joker, but with Batman swiftly retiring after Harvey's downfall and death, I can't even imagine that they even encountered each other again. Again, this is a minor quibble, but still.

    The intent is clearly to say that Bruce/Batman has been out of action for eight years. Not five, not seven, eight. That seems - and these are probably weird ways to put it - too easy or simple, though. That he would stop right after the events of the TDK finale, that no major crimes would occur in the intervening eight years, that the Dent Act would come about and do its job so quickly...I have a hard time buying in to all of this. So even though it's kind of against what's onscreen, I have to cling to that word "confirmed" and try to believe that Batman did his thing for a while - I'm like to think a year or so - after the end of TDK, but with the utmost care and secrecy, only even contacting Gordon once or twice. That has to mean there were no more "freak villains" on the level of The Joker, because if there were, there would also have to be confirmed sightings of Batman, right? Other people above me have made these points more eloquently, and other people below me probably will too, but there are my thoughts.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  6. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The Batcave and Wayne Manor were being re-built prior to, and at the time of, TDK. We don't know how close they were to completion.

    Bruce gave up being Batman after TDK, that is made quite explicit to us, but I am sure he still monitored Gotham for a period from the Batcave, and went down there less frequently as time wore on.

    It is also heavily hinted that it is partly phychosomatic.
     
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  7. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    I understand exactly what you are saying and you made your points very well.

    As you say, when broken completely down, it does not 100% follow. The ending of TDK led us to believe that Batman would continue even though he was to be hunted, but then in TDKR we are presented with a Batman that apparantly finished directly after TDK - and the reason given - because the Dent Act made him null and void. As you say, it's is unlikely such an Act would come in to effect quite that quickly.

    Of course, as the audience there is much that we are not privy to that we are to imagine happened off-screen.

    The truth is probably somewhere in the middle all of this and I think at some point you have to step back from the fine details and think what the true intention of the Writer/Director really was.

    Looking at things now, my opinion is that Bruce stopped being Batman immediately after TDK. This is alluded to quite specifically in TDKR. In TDK organised crime had been seriously disrupted, both by Batman/Gordon but also through the Joker killing two of the major kingpins. The city, as we saw, had also chosen to fight back and there was undoubted momentum to clean up the city.

    With the Police handling low level crime, the Dent Act was passed relatively soon afterwards which formalised how they would treat organised crime.

    So I suspect that Bruce found himself very quickly in a position where his services were not required.

    Given the timespan of at least a year between BB and TDK I think it is reasonable to assume that the cave was nearing completion at the time of TDK. If an explanation as to why it was ultimately completed is required then I would suggest this was because there was always the possibility he may need it again (we see in TDKR that he is waiting for such a moment when the city would need him).
     
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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  8. Mysteryman

    Mysteryman Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree with the theories posted above.
    However, I was reading the new Dark Knight Technical Manual,
    And , there was a note from Bruce that said after 5 years of being Batman, he redesigned his suit ,
    It is the TDK Batsuit .
    Unfortunately, I dont have a scan of it, but the book is currently in stores .
     
    #83
  9. Ultimatehero

    Ultimatehero Life is infinite

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    Some time DID pass between BB and TDK - SHADOW OF THE KNIGHT tie-in dvd shows that he did fight criminals in between.
     
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  10. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    As said above, the Joker tells us that roughly a year has passed.
     
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  11. I Am The Knight

    I Am The Knight Infinity

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    So it took him 5 years to "look into" the Joker? :huh:

    Altough, the 5 year gap would explain why Rachel looked so rough in TDK ... :oldrazz:
     
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  12. ThePhantasm

    ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    I thought he got shot in the abdomen? I figured the leg injury was from his fall after pushing Dent over the edge. I don't see why Dent would shoot him in the leg when Batman wasn't standing that far away.
     
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  13. zmystico

    zmystico Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, you just cannot physically do what Batman does night in and out without incurring some serious damage. Also, even though he wasn't active in those 8 years, cartilage does not grow back, once you start damaging and losing it...it only deteriorates.
     
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  14. ALP

    ALP In The Mountains

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    LOLZ:lmao:
     
    #89
  15. KalMart

    KalMart 239-Bean Irish Chili

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    Judging by the massive limp he had at the end if TDK, but very well could have penetrated lower into the pelvic and upper leg.

    He still just pointed and didn't aim. Plus, although Batman's armor may not have been completely bulletproof, it still could have deflected a bullet headed toward the lower abdomen enough to veer off and, again, penetrate into the pelvic/leg region...especially at the less-protected seams between plates where movement is needed. If it went into that very critical joint area between hip and leg bone, it could be really bad and much harder to heal since it's so hard to restrict that movement.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  16. ChrisBaleBatman

    ChrisBaleBatman Legendary Hero

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    I remember reading an article once, before Batman Begins was ever released, on the theory of a real superhero.

    Conceptually, the pitch was that if the hero is like Batman, a human being and not endowed with super powers, then the closest approach to how his career would or could go would be by comparing it to an all-star athlete. The guy wouldn't be able to last 30 years or anything, because eventually the bumps and bruises would build up. So either he'd catch a bullet or just not be able to get up in the morning. And the idea would also be that there'd be a peak, where he would be an absolute beast. He'd be at peak physical condition, very confident and sure of himself, and be completely healthy. In his prime, around his early 30's. And then it'd just kinda go downhill after that.

    I think Nolan's films, more or less, kinda followed that type of trajectory. Bruce became Batman was pretty much leaped into it in his prime. He was probably Batman for about 3 or 4 years. But, I guess he got a ton done. Aside from Bane, Ra's, Scarecrow, and the Joker...who all had a hand in major plans, Batman's biggest opponent in Gotham was organized crime. With the Dent Act getting passed, probably a few years after Dent died, that was it for organized crime in Gotham.

    The film did seem to emphasize that Bruce was not exactly forced into retirement by his injury. His injury wasn't really holding him back. The first whiff of anything big had him ready to roll. He retired because he and Jim had won. He definitely got usage out of the Batcave, which I assume wasn't ready during TDK since it hadn't been seen.
     
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  17. lordofthenerds

    lordofthenerds Not a Goddamn Side-Kick

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    Joker retired from crime for 5 years.
     
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  18. hafizbat

    hafizbat Wild Cherry

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    If the injury was that bad like the way you describe it, how was he able to recover so quickly when he needed to be Batman again?? I know he used the brace thing in his first comeback but he doesn't have that in the pit yet he not only walks but makes a huge jump to escape the pit. And he walks perfectly fine as Bruce Wayne. So how did he recover?
     
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  19. KalMart

    KalMart 239-Bean Irish Chili

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    You mean the pit that the was in for months, was treated by the doctor, and worked himself physically back into shape moreso than when he suited up earlier?
     
    #94
  20. hafizbat

    hafizbat Wild Cherry

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    Mhm, I guess it just goes to show the role will and motivation plays. Because theoretically if he was able to fully recover in a few months in the pit (when he had far more sever injuries back etc) then he could've healed himself all these 8 years or whenever his leg went bad. But I don't know something doesn't add up here. So either his leg was that bad that he was on a cane for 8 years, which makes his full recovery in the few months in the pit a bit unrealistic or his leg wasn't that bad in the first place as seen by his full recovery post-pit which muddles why he needed a cane for 8 years.....I think the latter is the better scenario, as at least his use of the cane/not healing leg can be attributabed to his disheartened, defeated state of mind.
     
    #95
  21. piccolo

    piccolo Doom is watching you

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    They don't have doctors and floors for pushups in Gotham?

    And that was after a broken back. He should have easily been able to recover from his TDK injuries within a couple months if thats all it took in a 3rd world cave with a prison "doctor".
     
    #96
  22. FlawlessVictory

    FlawlessVictory Well-Known Member

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    That's the power of belief! He didn't have that before. I sort of kid, I see your point.
     
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  23. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    I think a good degree of the issue is psychosomatic.
     
    #98
  24. KalMart

    KalMart 239-Bean Irish Chili

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    Yeah, I don't think he has as much to 'shoot for' during those 8 yrs.

    There's a lot that doesn't quite add up in this rather overstuffed storyline, but you just kinda' go with it.
     
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  25. KneelBeforeZod

    KneelBeforeZod Well-Known Member

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    Here's the timeline I prefer. There are inconsistencies ... but this lines up the best, and makes the most sense to me ...

    -- Bruce returns from Princeton when he is 21 (in 1996), and disappears for seven years after Joe Chill is killed (gone between 1996 and 2003);
    -- He returns to Gotham when he is 28, in 2003, and becomes Batman for the first time.
    -- The Ras al'Ghul attack happens on his 30th birthday in 2005. The first Joker robberies happen in the same year (calling card at the end of BB);
    -- Between 2005 and 2008, Joker gains notoriety and Batman works his way up the mob ladder (wearing the original BB suit), and Rachel Dawes does not age well ... she looks awful come 2008.
    -- Events of TDK happen in 2008 ... new suit, Joker killings, death of Harvey Dent. Last appearance of Batman, age 33.
    -- Batman in retirement from 2008-2016.
    -- Events of TDKR occur in 2016 -- Bruce is now 41.

    That would leave Bruce as Batman from age 28 to 33 (2003-2008), and again at age 41 (2016). Those years make sense to me, those ages makes sense ... and the five-year timeline before retirement is more satisfying than the 18-months or whatever people are using. Also leaves a reasonable off-screen gap for an active Batman between BB and TDK.

    There are some inconsistencies. The new book cites Harvey Dent's injuries as occurring in 2004. There is something about TDKR referencing 2014. But, the above seems to line up the best. Here is a more detailed timeline I got off of another board ...

    So,to answer the question, that would leave Bruce Wayne fighting crime between 2003 and 2008 , and then again in 2016 ... about six-years total before the end of TDKR.

    Whether you want to think he eventually comes back after TDKR is up to you.

    KBZ
     
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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012

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