Justice League How Man of Steel can spark other DC films

[shauner111]

You guys are right about it being a good setup for JL but it could also fall in the danger zone of just acting as a trailer for JL. One giant commercial for the bigger team-up. It depends on how it's executed.

I say it only happens if Goyer can crack a worthy story where theyre against each other for a bit, and you can really play on the yin and the yang vibe and how different their mentalities are, what makes them iconic giants in a world of "normal" men. Then you have them on the same page towards the end. Getting into what makes them so similar at the same time, the beginning of a League, a partnership and understanding.

Setting up the League with a few cameos/major references to the other 3 would be integral.

But there's no way they should let WB pressure them into it if Goyer doesn't have a good story and feels like he can accomplish the same thing in the beginning of a JL or solo film. Don't do it just because it's a money making cool concept or a setup for the JLA. That setup talk is just icing on the cake even though it's important. But the story is the number 1 reason to do WF.

Just don't make it seem like a trailer. If the story is just OK at best but they can set things up in MOS 2 and tackle most of the bats/supes stuff in JLA then don't bother.

 

[113]

You guys are right about it being a good setup for JL but it could also fall in the danger zone of just acting as a trailer for JL. One giant commercial for the bigger team-up. It depends on how it's executed.

I say it only happens if Goyer can crack a worthy story where theyre against each other for a bit, and you can really play on the yin and the yang vibe and how different their mentalities are, what makes them iconic giants in a world of "normal" men. Then you have them on the same page towards the end. Getting into what makes them so similar at the same time, the beginning of a League, a partnership and understanding.

Setting up the League with a few cameos/major references to the other 3 would be integral.

But there's no way they should let WB pressure them into it if Goyer doesn't have a good story and feels like he can accomplish the same thing in the beginning of a JL or solo film. Don't do it just because it's a money making cool concept or a setup for the JLA. That setup talk is just icing on the cake even though it's important. But the story is the number 1 reason to do WF.

Just don't make it seem like a trailer. If the story is just OK at best but they can set things up in MOS 2 and tackle most of the bats/supes stuff in JLA then don't bother.

Yeah that was my whole point with saying I think WF is necessary for JLA though. There is so much character development material to mine in the Batman-Superman relationship. These are guy that challenge each other mentally and emotionally. They make each other question long-standing beliefs, they clash. Their personalities don't always vibe, etc...

World's Finest by itself is just a great story waiting to be told properly. And I think if we want to see a successful character-driven JLA movie it requires having an understanding between Superman and Batman prior to it since they are the most important characters in the DCU.

Without that understanding a JLA film will be doing gymnastics trying to introduce all these characters while also trying to develop them while also having a threat and providing great action. That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[cleverusername8]

I think it perfectly sets up JLA.

At the end of World's Finest have Supes and Bats discussing putting a team together to face some (as of yet unknown) threat, maybe Darkseid.

Also, in terms of business sense, I think WF followed by JLA makes great sense for Warners because WF is an instant $1.5 billion movie (at minimum). I don't think buzz would die down with JLA because Supes and Bats would still have to teamup with WW, Flash, GL, etc...

And as someone said above, I think it's important to establish the rapport and relationship between Clark and Bruce. Not only is it one of the most interesting "friendships" in comics, just giving those two space in their own movies allows for more character development in JLA.

Again, having a character that sets out to "put the team together" is the easy way to do it. I know they can do better. Really, I don't think it'd feel natural if they had Batman and Superman going around on a recruitment campaign like this is a non-profit organization or some kind of sports league. The team should come together through personal plot lines that interweave and force them to work alongside each other to accomplish their goals.

For example, character A is after objective A. Objective A just so happens to be an obstacle in the way of character B who is on their way to objective B which is tied to the villain character's objective. This is a very simple imagining of how interweaving stories can build a team rather than Superman going "Hey! Wanna join my super friends club?"

It's not about the buzz "dying down". It's the novelty. When was the last time Superman and Batman were seen together on screen in live action with wild public attention? Probably never. The proposition of that will have people going nuts and like you said would guarantee a billion most likely. That excitement will be grounded in the fact that it hasn't been seen before. When the second time comes, people may still be excited... especially if WF is a well done film and gathers good responses from audiences. However, the other characters' presence will not be a big enough selling point to make the movie feel exotic - if WF turns out to be a poorly executed movie, people will not come back just for Supes and Bats. It happened and it didn't do anything for them. There is no reason for them to come back especially if it coincides with Avengers 3 or Star Wars 8.

I'm not saying WF should be avoided. In fact, I'd be ecstatic if Man of Steel 2 ends up being World's Finest through the implementation of Batman to continue Cavill's story. I'm just saying that it's preposterous to say that JL needs WF in order to be successful. For the very reasons you put out there, JL should do just as well if not better.

As far as the relationship goes, that's something that would be built in JL anyway. That's kind of the point - the clashing views of these two driving the development of the team as they all look to take down the bad guy and learn to work with each other in the process.

 

[Zionite1]

Aliens in general are pretty goofy. Not to mention the forming and reforming metal drone thing in MOS that Jor El used to talk to Lara in the beginning? That is no more whacky than the power ring constructs.

I think the JL can afford one "out there" character that doesn't conform to super reality in the way that Superman and presumably Batman will. If Supes, Bats, Wondy, and Flash are all believable enough, having one fictional wild card will not throw everything out of whack if it's kept under control.



I don't think the JL needs any kind of Nick Fury type character. I think a more natural formation that comes out of "enemy of my enemy" will do well enough. Maybe they don't even need to make it official at the end of the first movie. They can go their separate ways but make comments that they worked well together and when an even BIGGER threat comes along, they are quick to jump right back in with the confidence that was built between their working relationships from the first team up.

Another thing, your comment about WF needing to happen before JL is nonsense. I know very few people are going to like what I'm about to say, but I'm starting to think WF would be a waste of time.

1) The whole point of having solo build-up movies before the team up is to introduce the audience to the lesser known characters and cut down on the time needed to tell their origins in the JL film itself. Superman just had his origin story and every knows Batman's by now. It would do NOTHING for the characters that need build up the most which are Wonder Woman and Flash.

2) The whole draw of JL is to see these iconic characters side by side for the first time. If they already let the cat out of the bag with Superman and Batman teamed up, the excitement will already have wavered when JL comes around. Sure, people might want to see it again but the novelty would be completely gone.

If you really want true build up to JL, a Wonder Woman movie followed by a Flash movie followed by a Man of Steel sequel to rekindle excitement for Cavill's Superman movie would do the job. More or less in that order. If that's too much, a Trinity movie could be substituted for WW and MOS 2 because it would take care of introducing Wonder Woman and would bring Cavill back into the mix. They'd just need the Flash movie and everything would be golden.

MOS to WF to Justice League will only prolong the process for no reason and nothing would really be solved other than a few fans being satisfied. For the sake of the big picture, I would not suggest WB go with that plan.

Yous speak truth men

 

[CinematicESP]

I can see the logic behind a World's Finest movie being unnecessary before Justice League. I would like to see one afterwards though. Justice League would just have to do a good job of showing that great dynamic between the two characters, so that people would look forward to a movie featuring both of them. Think Tony Stark and Bruce Banner in Avengers. They made a great duo, and if an Iron Man/Hulk team-up movie were announced, people would probably be excited about it because of their entertaining dynamic in Avengers.

 

[shauner111]

Sure but giving the audience a Bats/Supes film after JLA just delays the solo batman movies. I love the idea of WF but I would rather see a Batman movie or two released after JLA where it's just Batman, Gotham City, Alfred, Gordon and those rogues.

 

[cleverusername8]

I can see the logic behind a World's Finest movie being unnecessary before Justice League. I would like to see one afterwards though. Justice League would just have to do a good job of showing that great dynamic between the two characters, so that people would look forward to a movie featuring both of them. Think Tony Stark and Bruce Banner in Avengers. They made a great duo, and if an Iron Man/Hulk team-up movie were announced, people would probably be excited about it because of their entertaining dynamic in Avengers.

Now THAT would be great! You're completely right about the Iron Man/Hulk thing. That was probably the thinking behind the Iron Man 3 after credits scene. If they do a good job with Clark and Bruce's meeting in JL, you can bet that WF would do astoundingly great at the box office.

We can all agree that it's a safe choice so why not use that advantage by putting it after JL. That way, the hook of having the two icons meet on screen will still be in place in order to draw crowds to see JL and the new characters will have their time to shine. If that goes well, the audience will be raring to see their solo movies as well as the safe bet Superman/Batman film. Bingo, movie jackpot.

And Shauner, as far as delaying the Batman movies, that may be in WB's best interest at this point. I'd say that any more Batman movies this decade will be hazardous to the new franchise's health. The impact of the Nolan movies is still very much with us and with the audience - my non-comic friends are still going on about TDK and TDKR. A new Batman solo series could suffer the Amazing Spiderman syndrome I fear... Spidey and Batman are probably on equal footing of popularity so the Bat would not be exempt from the danger.

 

[DChero]

I think that we only need one Batman movie before a Justice League movie. No need for anymore than that since he's easily the one that is the freshest in everyone's minds. I want one movie to lead in to establish him individually, before going through the crossover references.

 

[Shikamaru]

Now THAT would be great! You're completely right about the Iron Man/Hulk thing. That was probably the thinking behind the Iron Man 3 after credits scene. If they do a good job with Clark and Bruce's meeting in JL, you can bet that WF would do astoundingly great at the box office.

We can all agree that it's a safe choice so why not use that advantage by putting it after JL. That way, the hook of having the two icons meet on screen will still be in place in order to draw crowds to see JL and the new characters will have their time to shine. If that goes well, the audience will be raring to see their solo movies as well as the safe bet Superman/Batman film. Bingo, movie jackpot.

And Shauner, as far as delaying the Batman movies, that may be in WB's best interest at this point. I'd say that any more Batman movies this decade will be hazardous to the new franchise's health. The impact of the Nolan movies is still very much with us and with the audience - my non-comic friends are still going on about TDK and TDKR. A new Batman solo series could suffer the Amazing Spiderman syndrome I fear... Spidey and Batman are probably on equal footing of popularity so the Bat would not be exempt from the danger.

The difference is that the idea of a new version of Batman with a new actor is a concept that is not new by now. It was something new for Spider-Man though and people had to get used to it.

 

[shauner111]

And Shauner, as far as delaying the Batman movies, that may be in WB's best interest at this point. I'd say that any more Batman movies this decade will be hazardous to the new franchise's health. The impact of the Nolan movies is still very much with us and with the audience - my non-comic friends are still going on about TDK and TDKR. A new Batman solo series could suffer the Amazing Spiderman syndrome I fear... Spidey and Batman are probably on equal footing of popularity so the Bat would not be exempt from the danger.

I disagree. Maybe no solo film before JL, I understand. But I don't think it's a good idea to not release a Batman film this decade. They may as well have chosen Bale if they just want this new Batman in team-up films until the 2020's roll around, then deliver a reboot of solo movies where Batman is a veteran.

They're rebooting. And a part of that appeal comes solo films. They need a new Batman film at least a year or two after the Justice League movie. We're talking 2018 or 2019.

Doing a WF AFTER Justice League is a bad idea. In a shared universe like this, the only reason to have a WF is to A) see Bats and Supes together for the first time B) introduce a new version of Batman or Superman, in this case it's Bats C) Use it to tell a good story but as a vehicle to hype up other leaguers that may not have a chance to shine in their own films before the JL team-up.

So there's zero point in it.

A huge part of my excitement for the reboot, is to see this different version of Bats in his element in a solo franchise. You want to wait like 8 years for that? It's pointless.

 

[cleverusername8]

I can wait for Batman. Unless if they really do something mind blowing for a plot, I don't think a Batman movie announcement would excite me very much.

Actually, to that point, I think the plot of the Arkham Origins game would make for a great Batman reboot storyline. It'd get a bunch of awesome villains who won't require too much CGI on screen and feature a non-origin story. But I digress.

Maybe you're right about WF after Justice League. I suppose all of the appeal of the movie would be taken care of by JL itself anyway which is all the more reason to just not have one. If WB did it, I'd go see it no questions asked but I wouldn't prefer it.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I could see a Batman/Superman movie taking place wayyyy down the line as well ala The Dark Knight Returns.

 

[shauner111]

WAY down the line sure. Either when Cavill is in his 40s and they cast a veteran actor for Bats. Or in a separate continuity with different actors and filmmakers. But not anytime soon after Justice League.

 

[mace1]

AMC Movie Talk - Movement on MAN OF STEEL 2 and JUSTICE LEAGUE?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DC8L12VtBo

 

[DeadPresident]

I'm not too familiar with the comics in which Batman and Superman appear together, so I might mention something irrelevant/impossible for one reason or another, excuse me if I do.

Personally I'd do a worlds finest where Batman and Superman go up against a threat they just barely defeat and that acts as a precursor to something beyond their combined capabilities, which prompts them to seek out and assemble the rest of the justice league?

I remember something another poster mentioned in another topic in terms of time frame, I'm not sure of it's too rushed but I think 2017/18 should be the cutoff for a JL movie. It feels like by that time the intense hype CBM bubble might have popped. I might be wrong though.

 

[shauner111]

I agree, it has to be 2018 the latest. Maybe 2017 could happen if MOS 2 is out in June 2015.

But we've seen that Superman can defeat an entire alien invasion alone...or almost by himself. So in order for the Justice League to form, the threat is going to have make sense. They cant just make the JL form and have a loner character like Batman join them just for the sake of releasing a DC team-up movie. The threat will have to be massive and not appear to be on the same level as General Zod and his army. They have to REALLY up the ante.

 

[Donut]

I guess we will get announcements at Comic Con maybe

 

[DeadPresident]

Yeah fair point. I'm a comic noob but the name I see everyone throw around as a JL villain is Darkseid, I guess the logical follow up question would be is he sufficient reason for the entire JL? I'm assuming he appeared in either the the JL animated series/ comic story arc?

 

[DaveMoral]

Yeah fair point. I'm a comic noob but the name I see everyone throw around as a JL villain is Darkseid, I guess the logical follow up question would be is he sufficient reason for the entire JL? I'm assuming he appeared in either the the JL animated series/ comic story arc?

Darkseid has a whole planet of evil gods and minions to throw at Eartg AND he's hellbent on destroying all life in the universe.

 

[DChero]

To add to this, Darkseid is also one of the few villains that has consistently given Superman issues in a fair fight. To me, the hardest thing about doing a JL movie is explaining why Superman can't just handle the threat solo. Darkseid answers this.

 

[metaphysician]

*sigh* For the days when people remembered that Darkseid wasn't supposed to "give issues" to Superman, he was supposed to "effortlessly crush" Superman. . .

 

[DACrowe]

One thing that I think Cavill seemed aware of, and therefore so does Goyer, Snyder and everyone else, is that this world is kind of crazy. It is even larger and more carved in marble than Marvel, so it is an uphill battle for them all to interact (especially Batman).

I actually think, unlike MCU, that a WF film makes sense. I will never view Batman as a true team player unless he is making all the rules. There needs to be an entire film devoted to him interacting in the same universe as Superman and that explores the natural tension that would exist between their two personalities.

Once you establish Batman and Superman in the same space in a way that does not feel contrived or "Super Friends," then going the extra step to Justice League makes sense.

Just my opinion.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

crazy idea for Atlantis/Themyscira in the MOSverse:

Atlantis is the future (we haven't found it in present day, because the civilization isn't there yet)
Themyscira is in the past (the civilization isn't there anymore).

This is why nobody has found them. The Flash accidentally brings them both into the present.