How to reboot the Fantastic Four's ORIGIN...

[Jordacar]

There have been a couple of threads on how to reboot the FF franchise. A lot of people have said that for a new FF film, they should skip the origin and go right for the big adventure.

BUT...

I would kinda like to see the FF's origin retold. If you go over the film version, really scrutinize it, I think it would be possible to change and improve every single detail of how the FF came to be, even as far as the details that kind of worked in the film.

To get the ball rolling, I would devote the entire first film to the origin (and have them fight Mole Man or some such baddie) and save Dr. Doom entirely for the second film (he could have a nerd-gasmic cameo at the end of the first movie, Joker-style!).

What else would y'all do, besides of course kicking Doom to a whole other film?

 

[C. Lee]

I can see an origin movie that concentrates more on another villian, such as Mole Man, as the main protaganist....but I think Doom should be shown to be causing some kind of trouble throughout the film....with the ending leading to the next movie confrontation with him.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Never skip the origin when making or rebooting a superhero franchise. That's the mistake Superman Returns made. It overestimated the character's fame, leaving kids and new viewers in the dark. A proper origin welcomes everyone onboard for the ride. People get to connect better to the characters, because they get to see what makes them tick. Why they're even heroes.

I would not put Doctor Doom off for another movie. The archenemy should be used in the first film, because there's no guarantee of a sequel. Batman Begins was an exception because it was made so damn well, and Batman is much more of a sure thing than the Fantastic Four. The public has already been soured to the FF and Dr. Doom because of the recent movies. The next movie needs to hit a home run both commercially and artistically in order to revive the franchise.

The FF's origin doesn't need to be changed or even take up that much time. They basically flew into space and got hit by cosmic rays. It's like worrying whether Peter Parker got bitten by a radioactive or genetically engineered spider; in the end it's insignificant and doesn't need changing. Any other pseudo-science explanation you can come up with is still pseudo-science.

What a FF reboot really needs is a good tone and direction. A sense of gravity and an actual VISION from the director. Tim Story was just absolutely horrible. His FF movie wasn't a superhero adventure, it was a sitcom with super-powered people sitting around and goofing off. The FF weren't very heroic; they made ONE rescue before the movie's ONE fight scene. Doom threatened no one. He didn't even have an actual evil plot beyond petty personal revenge against the FF. ROTSS had a bigger threat and more actual heroics; but it was still no gem and by then people had already wised up to the fact that the FF movie franchise was subpar.

A reboot should emphasize the FF as scientific adventurers, exploring the very limits of cutting edge science and dealing with the threats that spring from it. They should be world-class heroes and regarded as such, because in the actual comcs that's what they are (along with the Avengers). Doom shouldn't be watered-down into a dull, petty, pretty-boy businessman who spends most of his time in regular clothes. He should be a villain on par with Darth Vader (often compared to, and rumored to be based on him), majestic and terrifying. He should be the ruler of Latveria and portrayed as such, instead of some lame brief mention of the country that we got in the Tim Story movies, an insulting bone thrown to "placate" us fans. Play Latveria up as a rogue nation that defies the US and the UN. Make Doom threaten the entire world, and have the FF stop him. This isn't a complicated formula, but apparently it was beyond the reach of Tim "Sitcom" Story.

 

[DawnWarrior]

I would not put Doctor Doom off for another movie. The archenemy should be used in the first film, because there's no guarantee of a sequel. Batman Begins was an exception because it was made so damn well, and Batman is much more of a sure thing than the Fantastic Four. The public has already been soured to the FF and Dr. Doom because of the recent movies. The next movie needs to hit a home run both commercially and artistically in order to revive the franchise.

I'm not so sure about that. That whole "we might not get a sequel" mentality tends to lead to overloaded movies, like Daredevil featuring Bullseye & Kingpin & Elektra, or even worse, Spider-Man 3 with Sandman & the black costume & Venom & Gwen Stacy. Even ROTSS, which might have been better as the fourth film in the franchise so we could properly build up to Galactus. Iron Man did a fantastic job doing Iron Man's origin while pitting him against one of his more minor rogues, Iron Monger (Stane was only the Monger in the comics for one issue before dying). I think the objective should be to make the strongest single movie possible, and if that means pushing Dr. Doom to the sequel, so be it.

I'm liking the idea of having the team fight Mole Man first, or some other fairly minor villain (Mole Man is probably the best to fill . They could mention Reed's relationship with Victor and hint at what he's doing now, but we never see him until the very end and then fully in the sequel. I want to see a good Dr. Doom on screen as much as anybody else, but I would rather see a perfect Doom later than a watered-down, unrecognizable Doom now.

 

[bubbadoom]

While I agree that Tim Story was not the best choice for a FF director, I think you guys tend to put way too much blame on him alone for how the FF movie turned out. He was a "director for hire" who was given a script and a budget and did the best he could with what he had.
The only reason Doom wore a mask at all in the first movie was because Tim fought for it. When Spectral Motion delivered a much improved Doom for the second movie, it was not Tim who forced them to do eleventh hour alterations that diminished the overall look.

Point your fingers higher up the Fox food chain at who was clearly at fault.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

I'm not so sure about that. That whole "we might not get a sequel" mentality tends to lead to overloaded movies, like Daredevil featuring Bullseye & Kingpin & Elektra, or even worse, Spider-Man 3 with Sandman & the black costume & Venom & Gwen Stacy.

Daredevil had its problems, but the villains weren't it. Kingpin was the crime boss, and Bullseye was his hired assassin. That's the way it was in the comics too.

Spider-Man 3 was the third movie that let Venom hijack the trilogy away from Harry, who had rightfully been built up as the villain. The first movie was smart enough to go with Norman Osborn as its only villain.

Iron Man did a fantastic job doing Iron Man's origin while pitting him against one of his more minor rogues, Iron Monger (Stane was only the Monger in the comics for one issue before dying). I think the objective should be to make the strongest single movie possible, and if that means pushing Dr. Doom to the sequel, so be it.

Iron Man is a better example of how a movie without the archenemy could be done. But in that case it was the complete clash in style between Iron Man (high tech) and the Mandarin (ancient Chinese look, pseudo-magical rings) that kept him out of the movie. Mandarin also isn't half as popular as Doom is, so less people were let down from him not being in the movie.

I'm liking the idea of having the team fight Mole Man first, or some other fairly minor villain (Mole Man is probably the best to fill . They could mention Reed's relationship with Victor and hint at what he's doing now, but we never see him until the very end and then fully in the sequel. I want to see a good Dr. Doom on screen as much as anybody else, but I would rather see a perfect Doom later than a watered-down, unrecognizable Doom now.

I agree that the strongest possible movie should be the priority over including a certain villain. However, I believe Doom is the strongest possible villain. He matches Reed intellectually, and has an entire nation under him. I don't think the public has any more patience for the FF after two lame movies. A minor villain like the Mole Man just won't do it IMO. The FF reboot doesn't even need to be a trainwreck in order for it to fail in reviving the franchise; even a decent movie with a lukewarm reception won't be enough. Just look at The Incredible Hulk, for which a sequel has not been guaranteed.

 

[Ronny Shade]

There's a PERFECT template for a perfect FF movie thats been sitting in front of our faces since 1997.

take out the avengers and Black Panther and you have a perfect 3-villain trilogy. (Mole Man, Namor, Skrulls) with Silver Surfer and Dr. Doom as very human, very relatable characters.

 

[Rain Dog]

I'd make their origin similar to UFF's. I think Doom's character should be developed throughout the first film but he won't appear as "full Doom" until the sequel. I think a cool way to end the first film would be the 4 watching a news report about a regime change in Latveria.

 

[The Jester]

Rebooting Fantastic four or any marvel movie is a terrible idea. Yes the movies havent been good, but just get a different director (and cast if necessary) and MOVE ON. Nobody rebooted the fantastic four in the comic books because there was one bad story arc, they would just take it in a different direction with a new writer and artist.

Hulk did this perfectly. The Incredible Hulk took the franchise in a different and great direction but still acknowledged the the 2003 one. Starting from the very begining is just a waste of time. If comic books constantly got 'rebooted' every time a new team took over, it'd get very lame, so same should good go with the movies.

Each crew should give their own spin, but still respect what has gone on previously.

Get a new Fantastic Four crew and continue from the second.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Rebooting Fantastic four or any marvel movie is a terrible idea. Yes the movies havent been good, but just get a different director (and cast if necessary) and MOVE ON. Nobody rebooted the fantastic four in the comic books because there was one bad story arc, they would just take it in a different direction with a new writer and artist.

Hulk did this perfectly. The Incredible Hulk took the franchise in a different and great direction but still acknowledged the the 2003 one. Starting from the very begining is just a waste of time. If comic books constantly got 'rebooted' every time a new team took over, it'd get very lame, so same should good go with the movies.

Each crew should give their own spin, but still respect what has gone on previously.

Get a new Fantastic Four crew and continue from the second.

I disagree with everything in this post.


except that the Fantastic Four movies haven't been good.

 

[Chewy]

Hulk did this perfectly. The Incredible Hulk took the franchise in a different and great direction but still acknowledged the the 2003 one.

This is false.

 

[The Jester]

This is false.

2003 hulk ended in south america

2008 Hulk began in south america.

Intentional or not, thats a great acknowledgment

 

[Chewy]

2003 Hulk ended in South America.

2008 Hulk began by redoing the origin over the credits.

 

[Ronny Shade]

2003 Hulk ended by being awesome

2008 Hulk started by sucking

 

[Jordacar]

The old Hulk did this, the new Hulk did that, give it a rest.

This back-and-forth made me think of Gabe's review on dvdactive.com which starts like this:

The Hulk is back. Well, he’s back, but it’s a different Hulk. No, it’s still Bruce Banner, he’s just played by Edward Norton this time. He’s hiding out from the army in Latin America. I know that’s where the Eric Bana Hulk was hiding out at the end of the other movie, but it’s different this time. I know it was the army last time too, but this time the army is run by William Hurt instead of Sam Elliot. Yeah it’s the same character, but this time he’s generally angrier. No, Bruce Banner’s dad is still dead. Well that’s not entirely true, in this movie he never existed. No, I don’t want to get into some kind of existential discussion about the Hulk’s dad; it’s just that this movie features a different villain. You know what, we’re just gonna cut to the review, okay?

full review here:http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/incredible-hulk.html

Now, about the Fantastic Four's origin...

 

[Jordacar]

I think a cool way to end the first film would be the 4 watching a news report about a regime change in Latveria.

I'd switch it around, where we see reports of goings on in Latvaria throughout the film, and end it as Doom (in shadow) watches the news reports of the FF's big win over the bad guy.

 

[bubbadoom]

I agree with Jester, starting the FF over from scratch would be a complete waste of time. At the most, a recap before or during the titles would be all that should be done. Any problems with SUPERMAN RETURNS had nothing to do with a lack of an origin [who the hell does not know where Superman came from anyway!?], but rather Singer's ass kissing of Donner's film.
And while I would be happy to see Doom done right, I would not do so right away. The FF have so many classic villains to base a movie around, I see no reason to revisit the same one for a third time [my chief complaint with the X-Men movies - Magneto, Magneto, Magneto...!].
New cast - sure, new director - why not, new studio/Marvel - a must; but let's cover some new ground, new adventures, new villains!

 

[DawnWarrior]

There's a PERFECT template for a perfect FF movie thats been sitting in front of our faces since 1997.

take out the avengers and Black Panther and you have a perfect 3-villain trilogy. (Mole Man, Namor, Skrulls) with Silver Surfer and Dr. Doom as very human, very relatable characters.

I too am a big supporter of Heroes Reborn FF as a template for the movie, which I suspect is precisely what they were going for when they wrote the comic. At the very least, I would base the first act of the movie on the first issue. As for the trilogy thing you mentioned, they could also do Galactus (the real Galactus) for the fourth movie.

I think it's probably possible to do a third FF movie that continues the first two, tossing aside the bad stuff while acknowledging the good stuff and spinning out a whole new, awesome adventure (and maybe tie it in with the other Marvel Studios movies, if they manage to produce it under that umbrella). But I still want so badly to see the perfect, definitive filmed version of the team's origin.

 

[Congo Jack]

Nobody rebooted the fantastic four in the comic books because there was one bad story arc, they would just take it in a different direction with a new writer and artist.

It wasn't just a bad story arc - it was the first story arc. As in, everyone after this has to follow. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created one of the greatest comics ever. Tim Story made an awful film.

Reboot is the only way to save .

 

[OsGom]

This is how you reboot the FF franchise.

You make a Dr. Doom franchise with the character written as one of the greatest minds on the planet and not some lovesic corporate ass. The ruler of thriving nation who in his attempts to save the world from itself is eventually opposed various superhumans leading up to a battle with his old nemesis Reed Richards and his team.

You initially show Doom as hero of his people leading the uprising to over throw the despotic ruler of Latveria (a superhuman evil of some kind). Doom uses his superior intellect and maybe even wears a prototype armor to do battle with the super being. Make it the first movie and end it with Doom attending school with RR in America.
The second movie you have his fall from grace after "the accident" ending with the creation of the FF and Doom donning the armor.
Third movie Doom all out against the world climaxing in a battle with the FF in Latveria.
There it is. In the process of giving one of the best villains in literature the necessary depth and backstory you've slyly reintroduced a classic team ready for future adventures. Just need writers and actors committed to the characters and Fox to grow a set and make it happen.

 

[Obi-Ron]

A von Doom movie would be AWESOME.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Rebooting Fantastic four or any marvel movie is a terrible idea. Yes the movies havent been good, but just get a different director (and cast if necessary) and MOVE ON. Nobody rebooted the fantastic four in the comic books because there was one bad story arc, they would just take it in a different direction with a new writer and artist.

Hulk did this perfectly. The Incredible Hulk took the franchise in a different and great direction but still acknowledged the the 2003 one. Starting from the very begining is just a waste of time. If comic books constantly got 'rebooted' every time a new team took over, it'd get very lame, so same should good go with the movies.

Each crew should give their own spin, but still respect what has gone on previously.

Get a new Fantastic Four crew and continue from the second.

Why? What reason is there to preserve the current franchise? It's so bad through and through that there's nothing worth saving. Doom in Name Only was a disgraceful villain, not only for deviating from the source but also for failing to stand on his own. People thought Ioan as Reed was wussy and ineffective, and that Jessica Alba was woefully miscast as Sue. The two of them are thought of as having no on-screen chemistry. The stories have been boring and subpar. The public has been turned off already; any sequel to the Tim Story movies with the same cast will be weighed down by bad buzz. Chris Evans has even come out and expressed his dissatisfaction.

The reason the comics haven't been rebooted after a bad story arc is that they have decades of history. Good stuff that came before the bad, which would be a shame to throw out. The movies, on the other hand, have been nothing but the bad.

You're also wrong about 2008 Hulk, which IS a reboot.

 

[The Jester]

Why? What reason is there to preserve the current franchise? It's so bad through and through that there's nothing worth saving. Doom in Name Only was a disgraceful villain, not only for deviating from the source but also for failing to stand on his own. People thought Ioan as Reed was wussy and ineffective, and that Jessica Alba was woefully miscast as Sue. The two of them are thought of as having no on-screen chemistry. The stories have been boring and subpar. The public has been turned off already; any sequel to the Tim Story movies with the same cast will be weighed down by bad buzz. Chris Evans has even come out and expressed his dissatisfaction.

The reason the comics haven't been rebooted after a bad story arc is that they have decades of history. Good stuff that came before the bad, which would be a shame to throw out. The movies, on the other hand, have been nothing but the bad.

You're also wrong about 2008 Hulk, which IS a reboot.

All im trying to say is that I'd rather them not waste time by making another origin.

And I'm sorry for getting on the whole Hulk argument, but listening to the director at the NY comic con, he pretty much basically said that it's not 'necessarily a reboot'. This isnt really a 'im right you're wrong type of arguement'. Just relax and take it as a matter of interpretation

 

[Jordacar]

All im trying to say is that I'd rather them not waste time by making another origin.

That's what this thread is all about: supposing, for the sake of argument, that they did retell the origin, how should they do it?

 

[Obi-Ron]

I don't know about the origin, but DOOM SHOULD KEEP THE DAMN MASK ON!!!

Seriously. He should have been like Hugo Weaving in V for Vendetta, not like Tobey "face-time" MacGuire in the Spidey series.