How was your reaction to how the Jean/Dark Phoenix was done?

it funny how people like argue using stuff we havent seen in the movie, and then call it subtleties

case in point, magneto seeing phoenix as his queen, we never saw hint of that. He never used her in the final battle.
 
She was nothing more then a plot device. Plain and simple, I'm glad her saviour Wolverine put her out of her misery.
 
I thought her display of power at her childhood home rocked! I was in awe! It was amazing. And the Alcatraz scene was rockin as well. I was VERY pleased!
 
yeah i agree
Psionic Force said:
I thought her display of power at her childhood home rocked! I was in awe! It was amazing. And the Alcatraz scene was rockin as well. I was VERY pleased!
 
Posted this somewhere else, but perhaps this is the more suitable thread.

This is more a rant about Jean's death than anything else, but I just don't get how people can exaggerate this film's bad points so much. Okay, there are a fair few plot holes, and okay, a 1 hour 40min runtime is far too short, especially for the Phoenix Saga which is one of the most pivotal storylines in comic existence. But each and every time I see Xavier get de-molecularised, that painful last smile from him to Wolverine, as the flesh is literally torn from his bones, and Wolverine slicing Jean up at the end, with Jean's contented smile and warped satisfaction at her own death... well, I feel like breaking up and crying. And I don't cry easily when it comes to films.

Perhaps it's because Jean is my favourite character? I know she hasn't really been too well developed in the films, but as someone who hadn't read the comics (my only outside X-Men influences were from the games and the X-Men evolution cartoon), I still really felt for her and the powerful burden she had to carry.

Sure, after doing a little background research I can see that the films haven't really done the Jean/Phoenix storyline justice at all. In fact, they haven't done ANY of the characters justice. All we get is Wolverine pushed in our faces 24/7 with his boring powers, egotistical attitude and lame kitty claws. Still, to this day, I can't find the guy interesting... I'll take an ass-kicking telekinetic and telepath over some hyped up, alternate reality Indiana Jones rip off any day. But even with all of these flaws (and I imagine to the seasoned X-men fan, they are pretty major flaws), I still managed to shed a tear. And you can't deny that the action in this film was pretty hardcore, even if all other points were total crap.

Although, with all of this said, if for some reason there had been no Jean in this movie, it would have been completely sucktacular for me. There's nothing like a goodie gone bad, and Famke did a great job playing that part. If only the movie had been an hour longer...

##### Begin Jean Fanboi rant #####

I really hope they bring Jean back. If Xavier can transfer his mind like that, I don't see why Jean wouldn't be able to do something similar. IMHO, it wouldn't discredit the series at all. I mean, it wouldn't be far fetched for some uber-powerful Class 5 Omega-level mutant with the poignant tag name 'the Phoenix' to return from the ashes. It's been done in the comics a dozen times, and in the movie-verse, Jean didn't actually die the first time round anyway. The Phoenix in the water at the end of X2 was an obvious hint to her return. If they wanted her return in X4 to be slightly less fantastical than the comics, they could invent a new, more plausible storyline out of it. For example:

1. Xavier & a reformed Jean both coming back. X-Men don't trust Jean. Jean has all her powers, but X3's events have managed to block off the Dark Phoenix side of her personality. Jean is torn up about killing Scott.

2. Mystique goes to work at Xavier's institute as a human. Perhaps as some sort of undercover agent? Her powers begin to return, but her 'blue' form is permenantly subdued. She keeps her powers a secret. You could also fit in a sub-plot with the return of Nightcrawler here, and have her doting over her abandoned son.

3. Mystique returns to the Brotherhood, whom are in search of a new leader to replace the depowered Magneto. She tells them of Jean's return. The Brotherhood then try to sway Jean to their side.

4. Jean joins the Brotherhood as an undercover member, trying to destroy the group from within in an attempt to gain back Xavier's trust. She then becomes leader, but finds the taste of power tempting. She starts to have flashbacks of the Dark Phoenix.

5. Magneto returns, with his powers intact. There is a struggle for power between him and Jean. He then goes to Xavier's institute to warn them about her return, and to arrange her defeat so he can assume leadership of the Brotherhood once more.

6. The X-Men mobilize and prepare to fight Jean & the Brotherhood. She gets caught by surprise and the X-Men attack her, unaware of her secret ambitions to betray the Brotherhood and return to the X-Men. The attack from her former friends causes the Dark Phoenix to be unleashed once more. However, this time Jean struggles to control it. Eventually, she learns to embrace it, to embrace both the light and the dark side of herself.

7. Blah blah blah, X-Men beat Brotherhood, Magneto is back in charge and things are back as they were, apart from Cyke being dead and Jean being all super-charged and stuff.

8. Wolverine still loves Jean, but Jean is still torn up about her true love, Cyke. However, during her time as leader of the Brotherhood she learned of a mutant who might be able to bring back her love. The movie ends on a cliffhanger, perhaps with Cyke being resurrected some how.

And then throughout the movie they could just interweave actual comic events (e.g. Sentinels). Or perhaps do something with the Apocalypse story line and have a struggle for power between him and Jean. Anyway, my point was that there's still so much potential for Jean. If they just leave it like that, then I'm afraid they've lost pretty much the only character so far with any true depth (it's taken three movies to get her to this point), and it'll be much more time-consuming to flesh out the other characters enough to replace her. Jean is great, because by bringing her back they could also flesh out the relationship between her and Storm, Xavier, and of course, the beloved Wolverine. Every character would be affected by her return, and that makes room for natural character progression without trying to divide the attention between dozens of characters. It's like killing 20 X-Men with one stone. Figuratively speaking, of course. :)

##### End Jean Fanboi rant #####

Alright, I'm done venting. I just watched the film again and had to write something. <3
 
Well I loved it how Phoenix was done... only to bad that there was no firebird...but that didn't bother me so much because Famke did a great job at playing Jean and Phoenix
 
I liked the way Pheonix was done- the concept art we saw for real "pheonix" effects looked interesting, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they would look good, or realistic/non-cg enough, in motion. The effects we saw looked dark and violent- I wonder if a firebird and stuff would have given off the same vibe.

I don't mind the lack of Pheonix effects, but what actually bothered me was the explanation/naming of "Pheonix"- I thought it was a bit cheesy for Xavier to just say out of nowhere that "she developed a dual personality, calling itself the pheonix"... I was almost positive that she would be called Pheonix by Magneto in his forest speech, something along the lines of "...having a mutant savior on our side, reborn, like the pheonix from the flame". One of those little things that I thought would be cool and a little better, especially since she's only referred to once as pheonix.
 
I swore I would draw blood if there was no firebird effect, but on the whole, I was pleased with the effects used.
 
I was really pissed off they didn't use the firebird too. :mad:
I can't see why, especially at the final sequence where there was fire all over the place and Jean could telekinetically use it to form the bird (just to look more menacing-how hard would that be for the fiolmmakers to think or make????)

For what it's worth, when Jean emerges from Alkali like, the shape the water takes is actually a bird spreading wings and you can hear a faint bird cry-that's just for a split of a second though

(that bit is shown again in the flashback sequence in the infirmary when Jean recalls her killing Scott)

I guess when the dvd comes out we can all grab the remote and wait to press pause button
 
phoenix_song said:
I was really pissed off they didn't use the firebird too. :mad:
I can't see why, especially at the final sequence where there was fire all over the place and Jean could telekinetically use it to form the bird (just to look more menacing-how hard would that be for the fiolmmakers to think or make????)

For what it's worth, when Jean emerges from Alkali like, the shape the water takes is actually a bird spreading wings and you can hear a faint bird cry-that's just for a split of a second though

(that bit is shown again in the flashback sequence in the infirmary when Jean recalls her killing Scott)

I guess when the dvd comes out we can all grab the remote and wait to press pause button

I also felt some sort of fire effect should have been around her. Its funny if you think about it. Has anyone seen the movie carrie??? Thats what jean reminded me of in the last stand. Other than the fire, I loved the way she was portrayed.
 
I loved her explanation about her multiple personalities. I loved that they went with the mental blocks idea.

I was left speechless as Dark Phoenix was starting to burn Xavier into oblivion in her old house. The transformation from Jean Grey to Dark Phoenix was mind-blowingly eerie and amazing. Although, it would've been nice to see some Firebird effects. I did not like her entrance at all. A bunch of whirlpools and then Jean standing there? Lame. Wasn't there a painting of Jean rising from the Alkali Lake, consumed by the Phoenix fire, posted here a while back? Yeah, that would've been great to see. With extended time, this movie would've been amazing.

Apart from that, the finale was awesome. DP Neo-ifying those cure darts and going on a demolecularizing rampage at Alcatraz was :eek: :eek:
 
She was the best part of a BAD movie.

Did not live up to my expectations....seeing as she was mute and just stood there giving everyone evil eyes.

Like the rest of this movie...she could of been AMAZING..if it wasnt for all the ****s involved in X3

Famke did the best with what she was given.
 
My only problem is the lack of the firebird effect. The Phoenix rising scene should have been much better. What the hell were they thinking? The only thing that hinted at a Phoenix was the Phoenix scream and when she extended her arms out like wings right before Xavier exploded. Man oh man, how awesome would it have been to see the firebird on the big screen. It would have been "The" effect of the summer.
 
I agree with you Coreo - that was my only disappointment with Phoenix but other than that, she was still awsome nonetheless. she blew me away.
 
According to the Kinberg/Penn podcast, Ratner and Fox decided that because "such a realistic" Phoenix was already created, they removed the fire effect. It WAS in fact rendered, and part of a cut, but the geniuses thought it didn't fit.

X2 had firebird effects...at least they could have blamed the "unrealistic" firebird on continuity.
 
I heard that it cost too much to have her in flames for the whole movie which is what they wanted...

I LOVED Jean/Phoenix and I thought it was done well. I would have liked the firebird, at least at the two battles where she cuts loose, but I can get over that.

The worst thing about the whole movie is Scott's absence/"death" and Logan playing his role in the story. But for me, Famke was the REASON to see this film. And JAMES gave his best performance of the trilogy.
 
taintedFB said:
I heard that it cost too much to have her in flames for the whole movie which is what they wanted...

I LOVED Jean/Phoenix and I thought it was done well. I would have liked the firebird, at least at the two battles where she cuts loose, but I can get over that.

The worst thing about the whole movie is Scott's absence/"death" and Logan playing his role in the story. But for me, Famke was the REASON to see this film. And JAMES gave his best performance of the trilogy.

Yup so true...true dat.

Plus there wasn't enough time to complete the effects for the release.
 
I loved it, though seeing her engulfed in flames would have been cooler. I didnt see her as Magneto's goon, cuz he knew he had to be on his toes around her too. Like he told Wolverine, he wasnt making her stay with the Brotherhood, she was there because she wanted to be or that she felt she had no place else to go.
The effects to me, especially in the scene with her and Prof X was awesome. Her eyes go all black, almost with a demonic quality. Famke did a great job at slipping in and out of thr Phoenix persona.
 
Drago said:
I liked the way Pheonix was done- the concept art we saw for real "pheonix" effects looked interesting, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they would look good, or realistic/non-cg enough, in motion. The effects we saw looked dark and violent- I wonder if a firebird and stuff would have given off the same vibe.

I was wondering about that too, because we were supposed to get the sense that the Phoenix was something that was dark, violent and creepy and im not too sure the firebird would have kept with that feeling. However, it might have fit into the final battle when she was really revving up her powers and destroying everything.
 
There is only two if not 3 scenes where she needed it. Her rising should have been THE best of anything she has done!!! The bird should have rose out of the water hole and extended its wings. As soon as the wings begin to open (from bottom to top) there should have been a telekinetic shock wave which should have knocked Scott down.

Second was with Professor. When she extended her arms there should have been a dark red/gold flame on her arms/shoulders/head burning upwards taking shape of the birds head.

3rd would have been when the water rose....I cant even think of how to make that perfect.

Anyway, I still like the creepy dark effects but still wished for the "flame".
 
taintedFB said:
I heard that it cost too much to have her in flames for the whole movie which is what they wanted...

I LOVED Jean/Phoenix and I thought it was done well. I would have liked the firebird, at least at the two battles where she cuts loose, but I can get over that.

The worst thing about the whole movie is Scott's absence/"death" and Logan playing his role in the story. But for me, Famke was the REASON to see this film. And JAMES gave his best performance of the trilogy.

I like what you wrote there, i think Famke/Jean/Phoenix is the main reason to see the film, only thing is it should be Scott saving her.

Also maybe if they didn't spend so much money on Logan's healing effect we could have seen the whole firebird thing.

But i thought her story was done well, she did look scary and we saw how powerful she was . But i just wanted to see the good phoenix really. but i thought when she switced to Jean was cool and then Dark Phoenix was cool, would have loved to seen more of that as well.
 
Never fear - the Phoenix shall rise again...hopefully, in a BLAZE of glory next time around.
 
Baredevil said:
Never fear - the Phoenix shall rise again...hopefully, in a BLAZE of glory next time around.

damn right she will !
 
Knowing that the movies is a whole new Universe (Moviverse) I am ok with what they did with the short time they had, the only 2 things I have to say they did kind of messed up was:

1.- The phoenix flame...Come one, there is no excuse being that they showed it in X2, there is no excuse for it to not be shown when she is being the fully awake Phoenix now.

2.- (this is my own personal) her outfit, I just didnt like it, I dont exactly know what it was but it just wasnt cool, I mean, that would have been ok for like a Ms. Magneto or something but I would have been more ok with like her X Suit but kind of changed, I mean she can dematerialize people with her mind, she can well give herself a better outfit I think.
 
I liked it...but what i wouldn't have minded if her outfit was kinda ripped ;)
 

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