Comics I am enraged (Feel free to merge this)

[stillanerd]

Yeah... And, what about what Cap did to Iron Man...?

I thought IM was making sense actually... I don't know... I'm beginning to not get what Cap's side has their shorts in a wad over...

Thing is, in order to make Iron Man come across as being more reasonable (despite the fact that the current run on ASM has shown him to be not exactly the most trustworthy of folks) Captain America had to uncharacteristically behave like Batman.

 

[Captivated]

And Peter already made his choice and remade it everyday he decided not to reveal his identity, how many days is that, how many decisions of not revealing? As for 'virtual fortress'... what happened to their last fortress and how long did it take for an enemy to gain entry in the new one? And that somone he respects is a gnat compared to Cap in his respect or a amoeba in terms of friendship compared to DD.

Peter is not looking at this as a contest of who he respects/likes the most, to decide which side he'll be on -- at this time he believes registering is a reasonable request, as do MANY others. (Including me - BTW).

He's hopeful that Cap will listen to reason... because he really can't believe that it will go as far as it [SIZE=-1]unfortunately[/SIZE] does.

Spoiler

When Iron Man's team has Cap's surrounded he said:

IM: We didn't come here to arrest you, Cap. I talked SHIELD into offering you one final amnesty.

CAP: You mean a surrender? Thanks, but I'll take my chances.

SPIDER-MAN: Aw, c'mon. The only people who win when we're fighting each other are the bad guys, big man. This goes against every principle you ever believed in.

CAP: Don't talk to me about principles, Spider-Man. I saw that little stunt you pulled on T.V. Is Mary Jane happy about the Sandman having her zipcode now? [Oooo, that was a low blow...]

TONY: [pulls up his mask] Cap, please. I know you are angry. I know it's enormous change from the way we've always worked, but we aren't living in 1945 anymore. The public doesn't want masks and secret identities. They want to feel safe when we're around, and there's no other way to win their respect back.

You've known me half my adult life, Cap. You know I wouldn't do this unless I believed in it with all my heart. We don't want to fight you. Just give me a chance to tell you our plans for my twenty-first century overhaul.

[Tony holds out his hand to Cap, who looks at it... looks at the helicarriers above... He reaches out and takes Tony hand...}

CAP: You've got five minutes.

SPIDER-MAN: ALL RIGHT! Way to go, wing-tips! Didn't I SAY this was all gonna work out fine?

[Tony Looks down at a strange device on his hand... left by Cap]

TONY: What the hell?

[The device goes off and Tony screams in pain as an electric charge surrounds him.]

CAP: It's a SHEILD electron-scrambler, developed by Nick Fury's tech team, in case you ever went over to the other side.

The punches start flying... Cap hits Tony with his Sheild. The Sheild is also aimed at Spider-Man, who dodges it, and then grabs it with his "arms". So technically, Cap suckered punched Tony and then attacked Spidey, who responded in kind.

Given Caps actions here (and obviously not fully understanding his motivations at this time), I can't blame Spider-Man for fighting back.

 

[stillanerd]

Spoiler

SPIDER-MAN: Aw, c'mon. The only people who win when we're fighting each other are the bad guys, big man. This goes against every principle you ever believed in.

CAP: Don't talk to me about principles, Spider-Man. I saw that little stunt you pulled on T.V. Is Mary Jane happy about the Sandman having her zipcode now? [Oooo, that was a low blow...]

Now that's what I call getting burned.

BTW, somebody ought to tell Spider-Man that Cap's bunch is STILL fighting the bad guys while Iron Man and S.H.I.E.L.D. are recruiting them to capture other heroes who don't comply with registration. (And yet there are people who still think Marvel isn't trying to stack the deck and make the reader have to conclude that the anti-registration side is the correct position?)

 

[Captivated]

Too bad Marvel can't exactly articulate the pro-registration position as logically as you did, Captivated. Perhaps because they had no intention of doing so. I've been saying that the argument of "Centralized Authority vs. Vigilantism" is being overshadowed in favor of a "Civil Liberties vs. security" angle is because Marvel has made no secret that Civil War is supposed to be analgous to the current "War on Terriorism" as well as Spetember 11th, Gitmo, and especially the Patriot Act. And guess which side of the debate Marvel comes down on? So far, those characters who support registration come across as either being tools and lapdogs for the government (Spider-Man), manipulative backstabbers (Iron Man), cold (Reed Richards), right-wing zealots (Jameson) or just shy of being a facist (Maria Hill). Course, the anti-registration side comes across as self-righteous hoolagins (hey, maybe there's what Marvel meant by presenting both sides equally--both camps come across like a bunch of jerks ) but it's pretty evident that these are the guys Marvel wants us to root for--cult of the underdog and all that. So much for the claim that there is "no right or wrong side."

Bravo! That's exactly right. This does NOT fit the current "Civil Liberties vs. Security" melodrama that people in a certain political party are attempting to use... And it's weakening the story here because, like you said, heroes are acting out of character and the issues don't completely make sense.

BTW, I'm betting that, in the end, Speedball will be exonerated of what happened in Stamford because I suspect it will be revealed that the Riverbank Massacre was orchestrated by the "military industrial complex"--you know, the ones that created the super-villains according to the Scorpion in Marvel Knights Spider-Man #1-12?--and that they hired Nitro to ensure that an explosion happened with lots of casualties knowing that the New Warriors would show up in order to ensure that SHRA would pass. You know, just like some crackpots on the far-left claim that 9-11 was an orchestrated event or that the Bush Administration ignored what happened in order to have a war in the Middle East? Yes, I do believe Marvel will take it THAT far, along with Iron Man torturing Captain America just to drive the point home.

THAT would be going WAY too far... BLATANT left-wing nut job [edit: I'm about to totally go off and offend someone here] stuff... It's ALREADY pretty annoying over in Frontline.

And yes, Peter not having to reveal his identity to the public meant that he had a THIRD OPTION contrary to what was presented in ASM #532, which means JMS and Joe Q have effectively turned Spidey into an idiot on top of being a tool.

Now... yes he had a third option... but I just can't think of Spidey as a tool... Like I said before (prior post)... I'm trying to see how he arrived at the decision... it's surprizing, unexpected and unlikely... but not totally off the wall...

 

[ragingdemon155]

Cap compeltely owned Spider-man with that quote.

It fit so perfectly.

Spider-man is a sellout.

 

[14k london spider]

Speaking JUST about the premise of the Civil War (NOT commenting on all the other problems being tacked on here)... it's taken me awhile to get a feel for the "issues," and after reading Civil War #3, I feel an "opinion" coming on... and it's not what I thought it would be, or what I think Marvel is obviously going for.

The intro to Civil War #3 reads: After Stamford, connecticut is distroyed during a televised fight between the New Warriors and a group of dangerous villains, public sentiment turns against super heroes... Advocates call for reform, and a Superhuman Registration Act is debated, which would require all those possessing paranormal abilities to register with the government, divulge their true identities to the authorities and submit to training and sanctioning in the manner of federal agents.

Some heroes, such as Iron Man, see this as a natural evolution of the role of superhumans in society, and a reasonable request. Others view the Act as an assult on their civil liberties...

​

If they want to make this all seem more "real world" then let's get real. I know I'm glad that police officers, soldiers, federal agents, etc. are TRAINED and "licensed" (for lack of a better word)... as they are given power over others and need to be held accountable.

In REALITY can you imagine any of those groups protesting that it is a violation of their CIVIL LIBERTIES to require them to attend a police academy, basic training, or any other process that has been developed, before they can carry a weapon, enforce the law, etc...? I'm mean, how nutty would that be?

We submit to training, a test, an identification process, and rules to hold a simple drivers license and no one associates that with civil liberties violations. (Ok, some do, but they are kinda "out there"...)

Why would superpowered individuals, who have GREAT power not expect to have greater responsibility... hmmm? In that I don't think that Peter is acting out of character by registering. (Captain America on the other hand...)

The unmasking -- which was not part of the original idea for this story -- is a different story. The Act doesn't require a PUBLIC reveal of their civilian identities, so I don't buy that Peter would do this. The government employs thousands of agents with SECRET identities... this is not a new concept!

You could argue that the Act was rushed and not properly written... they aren't really giving us details... but I don't think the premise is outrageous, and it certainly doesn't sound like something that would qualify as a civil rights violation... worth fighting to the death. (But I guess fight in court isn't quite as dramatic... )

And, I certainly wouldn't hold up Patriot & Speedball as examples of nobility. They are not acting like heroes to me, at all. I don't know much about Speedball, but his denying ANY responsibiliy for what happened -- when, where and what they did WAS reckless -- comes across as peevish and immature. A little training might benefit him immensely. If I were She Hulk, listening to him whine that signing that paper was equal to admitting guilt (when it was more a chance to register and not be punished for his carelessness), I might have slapped him up side the head too.

As for the way they are approching the ones who are not complying... Is that what Captain A has the most problem with? Not sure I get why there isn't education about the requirements of the Act (as in, what does this new accountability look like), and time given to digest it... Oh, yes I do... we have to have a reason for the heroes to be fighting each other, which is the real reason for the story.

I have to agree. This is a more realistic response.

Though i generally agree with everything you said, trying to understand it from the anti-registration side (which i want to, even though i do think registration probably makes more sense) i think it can be seen as a violation of civil liberties in the sense that it effectively means you can't save someone you happen to see in trouble unless you are registered to do so. This is a huge infringement on the legal concept of self defence (ie defence of another or defence of property). Now to be fair you probably still can save someone in trouble just so long as you aren't wearing a mask or using powers, but it's not a huge extension to say this is still an in-road into the notion of defence and as such an infringement on civil liberties.
this occured to me in issue 2 when shield spot a hero (can't remember who) saving someone then proceed to take the hero down.

for example maybe a person has powers but doesn't want to work for the government and then sees an assault which they know they can stop. They may want to dash in there, save the day without then having to wait for officials to arrive at the scene who will then require the 'hero' to give up his day job and work full time for the government. The only other option seems to be to save the day without using his powers (as an ordinary citizen) which would be absurd

i think it's this enforced working for the goverment thing if you wish to use powers to help someone which is the infringment.

of course the other concern for heros is the potential of becoming lackies, or merely goverment or military weapons/pawns, being told what they can and can't be involved in, etc. no doubt the rushed legislation is a result of the public outcry, which is necessary story-wise, though a compromise would have been better where heros are registered, identifiable by SHIELD or the CIA, so they can still be held accountable when things go wrong, without becoming agents on a pay-role, subject to orders. of course that still doesn't solve the problem of why many heros have secret identities in the first place which is to protect themselves and families from retribution by the many super villians they face, if sensitive data on their identities got hacked. and in the Marvel universe where villians are often so powerful and resourceful that no one but heros are equiped enough to stop them i don't see how that data could ever be reasonably secure.

 

[XSpidercideX]

I am enjoying these recent issues, very interesting stuff. Its a good time to be a Spidey fan!

 

[JackBauer]

I am enjoying these recent issues, very interesting stuff. Its a good time to be a Spidey fan!

I know it's an old joke, but...

 

[3dman27]

The way I see it, every single person in a mask, tights or whatever, should have either taken the Captain America route, or the Firestar route. None of them should have gone along with it. They should've seen the Act for what it was, & opposed it. The war shouldn't be hero against hero; it should be heroes against the cops/SHIELD/military.

i can see this point

 

[Marc]

Peter is not looking at this as a contest of who he respects/likes the most, to decide which side he'll be on -- at this time he believes registering is a reasonable request, as do MANY others. (Including me - BTW).

He's hopeful that Cap will listen to reason... because he really can't believe that it will go as far as it [SIZE=-1]unfortunately[/SIZE] does.

You just stated how Peter was following this because of the trust and respect he has for Tony, which conversely means he should pay greater attention to cap. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Or perhaps he could grow a pair and make his own decisions without referencing or needing the guidance of others when he was doing this already as a kid. Apparently age brings immaturity, cowardice, reliance on others and stupidity. Erm, WHY does he believe this when its completely idiotic. When Tony/You/Writers fail to come up with a solitary reason as to why Spidey would throw out his principles on a whim in spite of god knows how many examples throughout his comic lore.

What reason? Spidey is the one talking bollocks and acting an idiot. I want to **** this prick that is written, as he is a first class moron. Cap should smash his face in; this coming from a spidey fan who hates cap. Spidey is becoming a thoroughly hatable character, he really is. There is little or nothing redeeming about him lately.

Spoiler

When Iron Man's team has Cap's surrounded he said:

IM: We didn't come here to arrest you, Cap. I talked SHIELD into offering you one final amnesty.

CAP: You mean a surrender? Thanks, but I'll take my chances.

SPIDER-MAN: Aw, c'mon. The only people who win when we're fighting each other are the bad guys, big man. This goes against every principle you ever believed in.

CAP: Don't talk to me about principles, Spider-Man. I saw that little stunt you pulled on T.V. Is Mary Jane happy about the Sandman having her zipcode now? [Oooo, that was a low blow...]

TONY: [pulls up his mask] Cap, please. I know you are angry. I know it's enormous change from the way we've always worked, but we aren't living in 1945 anymore. The public doesn't want masks and secret identities. They want to feel safe when we're around, and there's no other way to win their respect back.

You've known me half my adult life, Cap. You know I wouldn't do this unless I believed in it with all my heart. We don't want to fight you. Just give me a chance to tell you our plans for my twenty-first century overhaul.

[Tony holds out his hand to Cap, who looks at it... looks at the helicarriers above... He reaches out and takes Tony hand...}

CAP: You've got five minutes.

SPIDER-MAN: ALL RIGHT! Way to go, wing-tips! Didn't I SAY this was all gonna work out fine?

[Tony Looks down at a strange device on his hand... left by Cap]

TONY: What the hell?

[The device goes off and Tony screams in pain as an electric charge surrounds him.]

CAP: It's a SHEILD electron-scrambler, developed by Nick Fury's tech team, in case you ever went over to the other side.

The punches start flying... Cap hits Tony with his Sheild. The Sheild is also aimed at Spider-Man, who dodges it, and then grabs it with his "arms". So technically, Cap suckered punched Tony and then attacked Spidey, who responded in kind.

Given Caps actions here (and obviously not fully understanding his motivations at this time), I can't blame Spider-Man for fighting back.

So he is surrounded, why would they do that... to talk? Why is spidey touted as some bodyguard/flunky, why are enforcers being used. Cap is in a threatened position and if he didn't act to disable Tony he'd have no way of getting out of any fight. Spidey, the flunky, alone would pose too much of a problem. 'Technically' spidey is acting an arse and ganging up on cap's right to resist sheer stupidity. Note how Tony/Spidey fail to respond to Cap's offhand dismantler of a line, there was nothing to be said because it is stupid.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I should probably stay off this thread until I read #3.

 

[Marc]

I wouldn't worry too much, Captivated didn't really report what actually happened anyway. *sigh*

 

[Gregatron]

The thing is though... while I don't want to read of the Adventures of Spider-Man: the Viagra Years... I certainly do not want to read about him being a silly teenager his whole life.

They've brought him to a certain point in his life... his late 20's... where they can tell great stories that do not necessarily age him.

The problem with that is that you need good writers to accomplish that... something the industry is lacking.

This proves my point. It's not about what you want.

Spider-Man was created to be a youthful character. But because a whole bunch of immature readers just won't let go when they get bored with that basic concept, they drag Spider-Man to places he's not supposed to go. And look where's that's gotten us.

To borrow a Byrne-ism:

Let's say the original, youthful, single version of Spider-Man was a sleek sportscar.

You enjoy riding in the car when you're young, but as you get older and have a family, do you:

A. Leave the sportscat behind and buy a stationwagon that the whole family can fit in?

Or...

B. Take the sportscar to the dealer and demand that it be retrofitted into a stationwagon so that you can keep riding in it (as opposed to selling it to a young, single person who would love to drive a sportscar)?


Most of today's fanbase has opted for "B". And that's wrong.

 

[Captivated]

I wouldn't worry too much, Captivated didn't really report what actually happened anyway. *sigh*

No? Sorry, I could've sworn I copied the scene I was referring to word for word, right out of the comic. Wait... I did.

 

[stillanerd]

This proves my point. It's not about what you want.

Spider-Man was created to be a youthful character. But because a whole bunch of immature readers just won't let go when they get bored with that basic concept, they drag Spider-Man to places he's not supposed to go. And look where's that's gotten us.

To borrow a Byrne-ism:

Let's say the original, youthful, single version of Spider-Man was a sleek sportscar.

You enjoy riding in the car when you're young, but as you get older and have a family, do you:

A. Leave the sportscat behind and buy a stationwagon that the whole family can fit in?

Or...

B. Take the sportscar to the dealer and demand that it be retrofitted into a stationwagon so that you can keep riding in it (as opposed to selling it to a young, single person who would love to drive a sportscar)?


Most of today's fanbase has opted for "B". And that's wrong.

Slight problem with that analogy, Greg. The only ones it that seem to be driving sports cars and hold on to them usually appear to be over the age of 50.

 

[Gregatron]

Slight problem with that analogy, Greg. The only ones it that seem to be driving sports cars and hold on to them usually appear to be over the age of 50.

Okay, then. To amend the analogy, all these "adult-olescents" reading inherently juvenile comics and insisting that they be catered to with adult content and "realism" are having a mid-life crisis.

Naaah. I prefer the first analogy.


Petey wants to chime in, too, though I don't agree with him.

"Yay! Mr. Joey Q nowz the way! He gonna led Mavrel to GR8tness! Me gonna kick azz of cAptaen dum-aerica and Onionedman cuz they break lawz and not registred! Gwroth good! changes goot! Me want big spidder-robots to smash Greens Normiean with! Then, I use robbott to boof Em-Jay and Gwin!"

 

[Captivated]

This proves my point. It's not about what you want.

Spider-Man was created to be a youthful character. But because a whole bunch of immature readers just won't let go when they get bored with that basic concept, they drag Spider-Man to places he's not supposed to go. And look where's that's gotten us.

To borrow a Byrne-ism:

Let's say the original, youthful, single version of Spider-Man was a sleek sportscar.

You enjoy riding in the car when you're young, but as you get older and have a family, do you:

A. Leave the sportscat behind and buy a stationwagon that the whole family can fit in?

Or...

B. Take the sportscar to the dealer and demand that it be retrofitted into a stationwagon so that you can keep riding in it (as opposed to selling it to a young, single person who would love to drive a sportscar)?


Most of today's fanbase has opted for "B". And that's wrong.

*presses obnoxious buzzer*

No, you're wrong. Nice try...

Your analogy is flawed from the beginning. Cars are not designed to "grow" but this character was. How do I know that? BECAUSE HIS CREATOR SAID SO!

Stan Lee is the one that wanted Peter to grow... but what the hell does he know, right?

 

[Captivated]

"Yay! Mr. Joey Q nowz the way! He gonna led Mavrel to GR8tness! Me gonna kick azz of cAptaen dum-aerica and Onionedman cuz they break lawz and not registred! Gwroth good! changes goot! Me want big spidder-robots to smash Greens Normiean with! Then, I use robbott to boof Em-Jay and Gwin!"

Stop that!

Seriously.

Or, know the wrath of my ignore list...

 

[Gregatron]

*presses obnoxious buzzer*

No, you're wrong. Nice try...

Your analogy is flawed form the beginning. Cars are not designed to "grow" but this character was. How do I know that? BECAUSE HIS CREATOR SAID SO!

Stan Lee is the one that wanted Peter to grow... but what the hell does he know, right?

Everyone always pulls this card. Always. But they still don't get it.

As I have said many times, It's clear that for the first four or so years (1961-1965), Marvel's stories moved in basically real time. Then, when Stan and Co. realized that this was not a flash in the pan, and Marvel was gonna be around for a while, they put the brakes on big time.

Thus, even though Peter moved though high school in some three years, real time, once he entered college, he stayed there for 15 years, real time (and then was in graduate school for another decade, on and off).

Some of the letters in the letters pages in ASM during the 60s began demanding for growth and change, and were basically ignored. Then, another debate on whether Spidey should grow cropped up in the 70s, and became much more heated, but was still mostly ignored.

Stan understood how to create the illusion of change, and that he should never give the readers what they thought they wanted.

Y'see, the letters pages served editorial purposes while giving the illusion that the readers' opinions somehow had an impact on the books. Most of the crazy letters written by the lunatic fringe (which now forms the majority of the shrunken readership) were ignored and not printed. Today, the Internet has allowed all the nuts to voice their demands, and the creators actually listen.

 

[Gregatron]

Stop that!

Seriously.

Or, know the wrath of my ignore list...

Petey thinks that if he talks like a dumbass, people might see a reflection of what's going on these days. Clearly, talking up to people hasn't worked.


"Yay! Me talk likes me really am these days! Me way betterz than dum old Lea and Ditkus Petey! Me got big fans and big moviez!"

 

[Captivated]

Everyone always pulls this card. Always. But they still don't get it.

As I have said many times, It's clear that for the first four or so years (1961-1965, Marvel's stories moved in basically real time. Then, when Stan and Co. relaized that this was not a flash in the pan, and Marvel was gonna be around for a while, they put the brakes on big time.

Thus, even though Peter moved though high school in some three years, real time, once he entered college, he stayed there for 15 years, real time (and then was in graduate school for another decade, on and off).

This argument only works if you are trying to argue for SLOW GROWTH. But, you keep trying to say that NO GROWTH was the intended and proper direction for Spider-Man. You still aren't arguing your case effectively... because really... it makes no sense.

When they realized this was not a flash in the pan they SLOWED Peter's growth. Stan said he originally intended Peter to EVENTUALLY marry Gwen... As writers took the story in a different direction, Stan changed his marriage partner to be Mary Jane... does that sound like he intended the "brakes" (as you portray them) to eliminate growth or to slow it down and draw it out?

 

[Marc]

No? Sorry, I could've sworn I copied the scene I was referring to word for word, right out of the comic. Wait... I did.

You leave out the part where they have got them here as a trap and have already attacked his team by knocking out some of his guys. You set it up so Cap looks like the bad guy for taking down Iron Man. When the scene is set by Iron Man basically saying, agree to this one last 'amnesty' or you're ****ed. Thats not 'talking' even if the dialogue says so, Cap had no choice as he was PUT in a corner. And the cap attacking spidey thing is bull****, SPIDEY is punching Daredevil before cap tries anything to him. And Iron Man is disabled by Cap, so whats Tony's response when circumventing this... beating Cap to a bloody pulp. Fair deal. While Spidey just sits back and gives a thumbs up while people cry "he is killing cap!". You painted a scene, and left out key parts, and otherwise rewrote stuff to make something completely different.

Spidey hits daredevil, how does this not flag in a spider-man fans brain? How does the conversations of recruitment or planning of hunting down 'rebels', the term cape killers and such not register to lead to the conclusion that its cap's fault? Its his fault he was trapped by Stark and surrounded by 'armed' individuals. Riiiight.

"So technically, Cap suckered punched Tony and then attacked Spidey" - This is just crap, as the actual scene setup and actual panels would show.

 

[Gregatron]

This argument only works if you are trying to argue for SLOW GROWTH. But, you keep trying to say that NO GROWTH was the intended and proper direction for Spider-Man. You still aren't arguing your case effectively... because really... it makes no sense.

When they realized this was not a flash in the pan they SLOWED Peter's growth. Stan said he originally intended Peter to EVENTUALLY marry Gwen... As writers took the story in a different direction, Stan changed his marriage partner to be Mary Jane... does that sound like he intended the "brakes" (as you portray them) to eliminate growth or to slow it down and draw it out?

The main reason Gwen was killed was because Marvel knew that it was going to have to be a break-up, Gwen's death, or marriage.

A break-up wouldn't work because it had already been done too many times, and the fans would wonder if and when they'd get back together (much the way it is with Mary Jane today). Even if they'd broken up, Gwen would not likely have become merely another cast member like Betty Brant did after she broke-up with Peter, since she'd been too prominent for too long.

Marvel knew then that marriage would be bad for Spider-Man, so that was out.

The best option, then, was to kill Gwen. not only would this free Peter up, but it would also give ASM a shot in the arm and some new energy (which it did).


The only reason Peter and MJ were married in the comics is because Stan felt a married couple would work better, dramatically, for the needs of his Spidey newspaper strip. EIC Jim Shooter felt that it would be weird to have Spidey married in the newspapers but not the comics, and so halted the original plan to have MJ dump Peter at the altar and shoehorned the marriage in.


Anyway, the illusion of change is difficult to define for those who refuse to accept it.

Peter gets a new girlfriend? The Illusion of change.

Peter has a profound experience and learns a valuable lesson, and then next issue things are back to normal? Illusion of change.

New characters introduced, and old ones sent away/killed? Illusion of change (expect in Gwen's case, particularly, because readers--and later, WRITERS-- refused to let her go).

 

[Gregatron]

"YaaaaaYYY! Petey dig Gwein up like JMZ did amnd get some Gwin poodie! He wont have no kitties wit Gwin, dough. Cuz it wood be bad for $ale$. Normie can have kitties wit Gwein! Then kitties can dress like giobbies and pout, while Petey gets to have Em-Jay poodie! Org-an-ick webbies best controception!"

 

[Gregatron]

"Petey dun goot, eh? Petey good boy, sez Joey Q. Petey get more movies and more $monie$$$$!!!! Petey jump threw hoops for Joey and JMZ!"



Good boy, Petey. Good boy.



....the poor, poor fool.